Can I trouble you all with a few newbie questions about handwriting and related topics?

1. I've been printing out genkoyoushi based on a free PDF I found somewhere online. It's got squares that are 1 cm square, with no vertical separation but about 1/4-inch horizontal separation. Are these about the right size? Should the squares be larger or smaller for "real" handwriting?

2. Do adults in Japan use these squares for writing, or do they write on lined paper, or plain paper, or what? (I know they use word-processors, heh.)

3. When writing hiragana or katakana on genkoyoushi, do "small" characters get their own box? E.g., the "tsu" to indicate a doubled-consonant, or the small vowel-sounds? Is there any similar spacing principle that applies when writing on a blank page?

4. Do periods, commas, quotation brackets, question marks, and exclamation points get their own boxes? Likewise, are they spaced identically to other characters when writing on a blank page?

5. I don't mind printing out genkoyoushi, but it might be easier just to buy a couple reams; I go through them like crazy. But I can't find any online. Anyone know where I might look?

6. More generally, is it me, or does Japanese require a magnifying glass (or, in the case of my aging eyes, reading glasses)? Do any of you have this trouble? When I see kanji on these forums, I often have to squint to make them out. And don't get me started on furigana! I was trying to read Naruto volume 2 last night, and I spent half the time with my glasses off, trying to discern the furigana. The font at Yomiuri Online is somewhat larger, just large enough so that I don't have to squint. I suppose as I become more comfortable with the kanji, I'll recognize them even if I can't make out every little line?

How to use genkoyoshi

As far as discerning kanji and kana I too have problems with the size of the characters. I wear bifocals so that compounds the problem. At least on web-pages I can use the zoom feature and blow up the font. With manga sometimes I need to take off my glasses and hold the book ridiculously close to my face. My wife always makes a comment to me when I do that.


<Ha - I beat joe_bevis

edit: damn, got beaten

I'm basing my answers on this website http://faculty.palomar.edu/ftachibana/ab...oyoshi.htm

I'll try to answer to some of these

1) I pretty sure they are the right size

2) n/a

3) yes, not sure what you mean by the 2nd part

4) yes, unless you have to put them in the top box, then they may be better suited to being squeezed in the bottom box (not sure about spacing principles on normal paper)

5) n/a

6) yes I also encounter that problem on various websites.


I hope I've been helpful, sorry I couldn't answer more questions

Most of the paper I've seen for sale is either standard college rule note paper, or standard college rule note paper with the addition of faint vertical dashes at the top and bottom of the page to help with spacing. I assume that's what most adults use, if they're going to write on paper.

That was an answer to the second question, by the way, if it wasn't obvious.

Groot Wrote:5. I don't mind printing out genkoyoushi, but it might be easier just to buy a couple reams; I go through them like crazy. But I can't find any online. Anyone know where I might look?

When I looked into the matter, what I found was very expensive, so I've been making do with regular grid paper. The one I use has 5 squares to the inch, 4 squares to the inch may also be suitable. The gridlines all have the same thickness and color (very thin, and light blue). And the paper is heavyweight enough that I can use it on both sides without the writing on one side showing through on the other. Granted, this is not what the Japanese use, but I think it's a close enough approximation.

Groot Wrote:6. More generally, is it me, or does Japanese require a magnifying glass (or, in the case of my aging eyes, reading glasses)?

I asked a similar question recently. You may find the answers I got useful:

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=5308

In particular, I found that Rikaichan/Rikaikun solve the legibility problem nicely.

Thank you for all the helpful replies. Joe_bevis and Axlen, that Palomar page was just what I was looking for -- I had been doing it all wrong, lol.

gfb345, that plug-in looks promising. Tae Kim uses a rollover technique at his website, and it's nifty. Maybe I'll try Rikaichan, but then again CTL/+ does work pretty well in Firefox.

Really my biggest problem is reading manga: the furigana, the kana, some of the kanji, and even the artwork -- they all seem too small. (Maybe they wouldn't have twenty years ago, and maybe I should break down and get progressive lenses.) I wonder if the books come in a larger size; mine is pretty small. Today I went out and bought a magnifying glass; we'll see if that helps.

Some answers

1. My Apica School Line notebook is squares about the size of my index finger nail, subdivided into four smaller squares.

2. Most people write on blank paper. It is difficult to find A4 lined paper, because no one uses it. However there is lined paper for writing vertically (very broadly spaced lines) usually for letters and some people write notes etc. horizontally on lined paper not unlike the kind found in the western world.

3. Small characters get their own box, they are written in the lower left corner of that box. On blank paper, the spacing is toned down a little. In old books (pre-ww2) I have seen small character cramed into the same area as the character before it, but I have never seen that in modern time.

4. No, they don't get their own box. Treat them like the small character above when writing on blank paper.

5. I would just use graph paper, if I were you. But I imagine JList might carry some.

6. Most people don't need a magnifying glass. I beleive this is because once you become use the kanji, you stop reading every part and can recognize it from context and general shape. This is especially true with handwriting. I found when I first tried reading handwriting (even easy letters like hiragana) I couldn't read it at all. But once I got (am getting...?) use to it, it is much easier.

abydos Wrote:5. I would just use graph paper, if I were you. But I imagine JList might carry some.

Yes to both. When I first looked into this, I found that JList sold a few notebook types but it's cheaper and easier to just get graph paper at the local stationery store.

Thanks for the further replies. Yeah, those J-List notebooks look OK, but what I'm doing is probably easier and cheaper.

Abydos, thanks for your thorough responses. A couple follow-up questions:

Quote:3. Small characters get their own box, they are written in the lower left corner of that box.

If writing horizontally, I assume you mean? If writing vertically, it looks like they are written in the right or even top-right section of the box.

Quote:4. No, they don't get their own box.

Hmm, the Palomar site linked earlier in this thread shows at least some punctuation getting its own box, unless at the end of a line: periods and commas, anyway. Not a big deal either way, as my impression is that things do "tighten up" when written on blank paper. (The site in question is: http://faculty.palomar.edu/ftachibana/ab...oyoshi.htm)

Thanks again! Gotta love this forum.

2. The only places I've seen genkouyoushi in use were:
- Students' speeches (in Japanese) for a speech contest
- When I was asked to write an article for a publication (and even then I typed the article on a computer and printed it out without gridlines
- 直筆で読む「坊ちゃん」

I'm sure there are other cases of using genkouyoushi here, but people don't use it in their everyday lives. As for "do they write on lined paper, or plain paper, or what?", that depends on what they're writing.