Well, I finally did it. I finished core 2000, but for the first time in 10 months I feel a little lost in my Japanese studies.
I was hoping to start a grammar deck. I was really looking forward to the Tae kim deck. But when I started looking at, I was quite disappointed. It seems to be pretty much 100% production cards (hmm looks like i might be able to fix this...). I am trying to find a grammar deck that is something like core2000. ie. A recognition deck (audio is not required).
Can you guys recommend a good grammar deck for me? Maybe something from smart.fm?

I've started using subs2srs (AWESOME program btw, and much easier than the 10 page instructions suggest lol) on 'cupid no itazura' and it works quite well. The only problem is I can only find English subtitles for that movie. Not having the Japanese subtitles really makes it tough. I've enjoyed dramas like 'cupid no itazura', 'jyouou virgin' and 'shimokita glory days.' (romance/comedy/nudity shows). Can anybody suggest a drama like this that has both Japanese and English subtitles available? (a ready-made subs2srs deck of something like this would be great too)

note: I know I should be making my own SRS cards but I have repetitive strain injuries in both wrists, so my ability to type is very limited (and I don't have voice recognition software for Japanese... although I'd be interested to hear how it works for anybody who's tried it

And if you guys have any other suggestions for me, those would be greatly appreciated as well

Thanks,
juniper

You can DL the shared Dictionary of Japanese Grammar deck (8555 sentences) via Anki downloads. Just consult the books for grammar points and then SRS the sentences.

If you want audio (not for speaking practice but for multisensory integration) and you have Misaki or Show voice engines, you can use the TTS Anki plugin. Although it comes out tinny, I think the plugin outputs the audio wrong.

nest0r Wrote:You can DL the shared Dictionary of Japanese Grammar deck (8555 sentences) via Anki downloads. Just consult the books for grammar points and then SRS the sentences.

If you want audio (not for speaking practice but for multisensory integration) and you have Misaki or Show voice engines, you can use the TTS Anki plugin. Although it comes out tinny, I think the plugin outputs the audio wrong.

That's a lot of sentences. Maybe I'll incorporate it into my sentence deck at a later time.
Oh yea, do you guys know where to find audio-conversations about various topics. I think there was a few posted here but I can't find it. I remember it had various topics on psychology,regular conversation,etc
Thanks in advance!

I recommend you search on anki some premade decks. And go search up grammer dictionaries,etc(Which i'm sure you're already aware).

ta12121 Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:You can DL the shared Dictionary of Japanese Grammar deck (8555 sentences) via Anki downloads. Just consult the books for grammar points and then SRS the sentences.

If you want audio (not for speaking practice but for multisensory integration) and you have Misaki or Show voice engines, you can use the TTS Anki plugin. Although it comes out tinny, I think the plugin outputs the audio wrong.

That's a lot of sentences. Maybe I'll incorporate it into my sentence deck at a later time.
Oh yea, do you guys know where to find audio-conversations about various topics. I think there was a few posted here but I can't find it. I remember it had various topics on psychology,regular conversation,etc
Thanks in advance!

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...8#pid44048 - As I mention there, several other places from ages past, and in the recent AJATT commercialization thread, that's something I've been hoping people living in Japan will do more often, record everyday, unscripted stuff. So far no takers, but one day...

nest0r Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:You can DL the shared Dictionary of Japanese Grammar deck (8555 sentences) via Anki downloads. Just consult the books for grammar points and then SRS the sentences.

If you want audio (not for speaking practice but for multisensory integration) and you have Misaki or Show voice engines, you can use the TTS Anki plugin. Although it comes out tinny, I think the plugin outputs the audio wrong.

That's a lot of sentences. Maybe I'll incorporate it into my sentence deck at a later time.
Oh yea, do you guys know where to find audio-conversations about various topics. I think there was a few posted here but I can't find it. I remember it had various topics on psychology,regular conversation,etc
Thanks in advance!

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...8#pid44048 - As I mention there, several other places from ages past, and in the recent AJATT commercialization thread, that's something I've been hoping people living in Japan will do more often, record everyday, unscripted stuff. So far no takers, but one day...

Thanks nestor. Definitely will be using a lot of those sites as audio resources.

Juniper,

If you're talking about the Tae Kim decks I posted on Anki, it's very easy to turn those into recognition cards. Just change which fields show in the question.

Word of warning: I found straight recognition for grammar is way too easy. My mind glossed over the conjugation which is important when you try to write and speak. By creating pseudo recognition (closed delete the conjugation parts), I find what seemed to be a better mix of production and recognition.

Yeah, I did straight recognition, production, and partial production. I'm personally glad I settled on the above as it's fast and effective.

I know it is very obvious, but wouldn't core 6000 be a logical next step?

@Nukemarine - I'm still deciding whether to bother cloze deleting grammar constructions, I'm not sure I'll need to as long as the entirety of my grading/focus per card is one salient element of each sentence. I take it you already tried that (the Tae Kim deck went from bold to clozed) and still found it wanting?

I did more of a production clozed (grammar point clozed, with English initiation), then I converted them to conjugation clozed (no initiation in must cases, unless asking for negatives or something else simple) which basically recognition. Similarly, I added cards that converted just the verbs of the vocabulary deck to conjugation clozed.

This is only something that is possible with Japanese I think. You have to figure out the type of verb from just the sentence and the kanji of the verb. Similarly, you have to know what the sentence is trying to convey, and know the proper conjugation for that grammar type.

I don't think you could accomplish this with English or French very easily, but maybe I'm wrong:

I went [...walk] in the park. Is the answer "to walk", "walking", "for a walk", etc.
公園で歩[...]いた。　公園で歩[...]いった。

You know it's for walking, but the Japanese question is less vague on the answer. With English, you'd have to put the (past progressive) and other stuff to make it bit obvious what the question is looking for.

The active portions of the exercises for the assimil books are exactly like that. Well the French one is, not sure what the Japanese book is doing.

Example

- I know why she's unhappy.
Je [...] [...] elle est triste.

sais pourquoi

I did Core 2000+Core 6000+JLPT1-4 grammar decks > Spent 3 weeks in Japan brushing up on speaking + listening > Now learning rest of JLPT vocab up to 1kyuu and planning to end formal study there.

My grammar got better just from reading and chatting online. Never did formal production.

Nukemarine Wrote:I did more of a production clozed (grammar point clozed, with English initiation), then I converted them to conjugation clozed (no initiation in must cases, unless asking for negatives or something else simple) which basically recognition. Similarly, I added cards that converted just the verbs of the vocabulary deck to conjugation clozed.

This is only something that is possible with Japanese I think. You have to figure out the type of verb from just the sentence and the kanji of the verb. Similarly, you have to know what the sentence is trying to convey, and know the proper conjugation for that grammar type.

I don't think you could accomplish this with English or French very easily, but maybe I'm wrong:

I went [...walk] in the park. Is the answer "to walk", "walking", "for a walk", etc.
公園で歩[...]いた。　公園で歩[...]いった。

You know it's for walking, but the Japanese question is less vague on the answer. With English, you'd have to put the (past progressive) and other stuff to make it bit obvious what the question is looking for.

What do you think about having an option to type in cloze deletions only? Or is that already an option.

Hmm, now that I'm looking at the typing stuff in Anki, I guess it doesn't matter what you type, heh. Just type the cloze stuff and it'll be green or whatever.

Juniperpansy,

I recommend you look at this webpage http://podolsky.everybody.org/rsi/ or research TMS and Doctor John Sarno. It might help you in regards to your RSI. Personally, I no longer view computer related RSI as a condition of physical origin.

Thanks for the feedbackk everybody. It is much appreciated

Nukemarine - I was able to figure that out as I was writing my original post. Awesome work btw I'm not disappointed anymore .

So I got my grammar needs fulfilled for now (I will check out the other stuff another time. Thanks guys!).

I'm still waiting for any suggestions on Japanese dramas (movies are ok too) as those described in my first post with Japanese and English subtitles.

Thanks

Juniper, IceCream posts some great reviews of recent J-Dramas with her opinion on the level of the language used in those dramas.

Pretty much any drama with subtitles that catch your attention can be ripe for srs study. Any drama that catches your attention you should just watch regardless.

what is this core 2000, please?

also, what are production decks? what is the difference between production decks vs recognition decks?

I'm pretty new, errtu, but I think Core 2000 refers to the exercises here. I think it's also referred to around here simply as "smart.fm"; one thing I'm not sure of is whether smart.fm is synonymous with Core 2000. (Also, I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between Core 2000 and Kanji Odyssey 2001, but that's another question.) Anyway, check it out here: http://smart.fm/goals/19053-japanese-core-2000-step-1

I think a recognition deck tests recognition of Japanese, whereas production asks you to translate English into Japanese. Thus Heisig's recommended method (in which you look at an English keyword and then draw a kanji) would seem to be production. I think. Again, I'm new to this too.

Production has the advantage of being a more "active" style of learning. I find I have to work harder to go from Heisig keyword to kanji than vice-versa, and that may cement things better. On the other hand, recognition has the advantage of building up our ability to process "inputs", and some argue that it's more important to understand what's being said to you than to be able to speak like a silver-tongued Nero. The blogger who runs the website "All Japanese all the Time" (AJATT), for example, emphasizes the importance of "inputs." I suppose both arguments have their merits, and I'm pretty confused about what I'll be doing once I'm done with RTK.

Groot Wrote:I'm pretty new, errtu, but I think Core 2000 refers to the exercises here. I think it's also referred to around here simply as "smart.fm"; one thing I'm not sure of is whether smart.fm is synonymous with Core 2000. (Also, I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between Core 2000 and Kanji Odyssey 2001, but that's another question.) Anyway, check it out here: http://smart.fm/goals/19053-japanese-core-2000-step-1

I think a recognition deck tests recognition of Japanese, whereas production asks you to translate English into Japanese. Thus Heisig's recommended method (in which you look at an English keyword and then draw a kanji) would seem to be production. I think. Again, I'm new to this too.

Production has the advantage of being a more "active" style of learning. I find I have to work harder to go from Heisig keyword to kanji than vice-versa, and that may cement things better. On the other hand, recognition has the advantage of building up our ability to process "inputs", and some argue that it's more important to understand what's being said to you than to be able to speak like a silver-tongued Nero. The blogger who runs the website "All Japanese all the Time" (AJATT), for example, emphasizes the importance of "inputs." I suppose both arguments have their merits, and I'm pretty confused about what I'll be doing once I'm done with RTK.

thankxs man for the answer, that smart fm website is new to me. i haven't read the forum too much, i focus on learning the kanji. but since im about to finish them, now i am starting to read more about the sentences phase. that's why i didn't know bout all this. well those core sentences look sick and awesome. thankxs for the link, also the anki pre made decks look good for this purpose

mmm i hadn't thought about production and recognition. since i was following ajatt s advice i was thinking going straight for input, all 10 000 sentences of recognition. after all it worked for that guy (ajatts), didn't it? he talks japanese. what u guys recommend?

pd. im thinking it would be good to tackle it RTK1,3 , then kanji o 2001 , then smart fm core, then jump to japanese - japanese. opinion, please?

@errtu
going rtk 3 is optional but I recommend you doing it. It will give you more meanings to know. But the key is getting use the language first. First getting used to the sounds and once that's done. Next is sentences,words,etc.

As for AJATT 10,000 sentences. I have gotten to 10 500+ sentences in 8.1 months and I must say my reading/understanding skills are becoming close to fluent. But I don't plan on stopping with 10,000 sentences. I'll basically keep going until I've completely gotten fluent. Input helps with the speaking process as it helps you adapt to japanese, you'll eventually not need a translation or anything to understand japanese.

Basically in my opinion I've worked on input/reading a lot. So that's why I'm almost fluent in those skills. As for speaking/writing I'm working on those skills.
(Have 5 decks currently, 1 vocab, 1 sentence deck, 1 kanji deck, 1 production deck and another kanji deck(will merge them together or delete,etc)

ta12121 Wrote:@errtu
As for AJATT 10,000 sentences. I have gotten to 10 500+ sentences in 8.1 months and I must say my reading/understanding skills are becoming close to fluent. But I don't plan on stopping with 10,000 sentences. I'll basically keep going until I've completely gotten fluent. Input helps with the speaking process as it helps you adapt to japanese, you'll eventually not need a translation or anything to understand japanese.

How many of those sentences did you mine yourself? I think it's been agreed on this forum that pre-made sentences do not count towards your 10,000 sentences - better to think of them more like extended vocab practise. Remember AJATT is all about consuming and breaking down native level media; the "10,000" sentence thing is a measure of how much time you've put into doing that.

Sorry not knocking you, 50 new cards a day for 8 months is pretty impressive, though I do wonder what your reviews are like. Be careful of burnout!

I always though fluency was about speaking...?

In answer to the initial question, the kanken DS game is pretty good for sentences, and you learn vocab / readings at the same time

Fluency is how well you speak and listen. Literacy is how well you write and read. Ok, that's just my interpretation of the whole thing.

Seeing how far along he is, I'd like to see ta12121 post some audio or writing samples of his production ability. If for no other reason than to see how he progresses over the next few months.

aphasiac Wrote:How many of those sentences did you mine yourself? I think it's been agreed on this forum that pre-made sentences do not count towards your 10,000 sentences...

Whoa whoa, when did we agree to that? I think my KO2001 sentences are just as valid as my sentences picked from manga or my dictionary.

Just grab some kind of native material and have at it. Or you could get a textbook and go through that. Either way, you will be "studying" japanese and it won't really hurt you. Maybe you'll sound stiff as a board but everyone will understand you. Just do what you want to do.