As far as I've heard, those were just the results that they had for the last test. Like it was graded on some sort of curve, and those were the results needed for the July test. So it may not necessarily be the same for this upcoming test.

I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it's a rumor I heard.


On a similar note, just about JLPT: I'm absolutely screwed. I've been super busy since coming back to America, and vastly overestimated how much time I could actually spend on Japanese. Yeah, I forgot that American university courses are hard...

So yeah, I've got one month until I tackle JLPT N1, and probably get my attempting-to-be-bilingual ass handed to me.

I'm on the same boat. I have one month to double my vocabulary skills. Being a full time student itself is hard but I have to teach and then take SAT tests every month and sign up for college. >.>; There is no time to sit down and study it seems.

From what I heard, N1 is not as hard as the jump to N2 in terms of listening and kanji. Listening supposedly can't get much harder than N2 other than the topics they talk about.

I'm going to take online classes though JOI and see how I can improve my scores.

I doubt it's a rumor, since they left the breakdown of scores on the FAQ page, and said nothing about it being "only for the July 2010 test."

Besides, if they say the scoring is one way before the test, then scored the test differently than how they said they would score it, there would be no end to the howls of protest from people.

It's like if your professor tells you you need a 60 to pass, then halfway through the exam, he just changes his mind and says, "Nah, you need a 75, because I don't like your face." or "I changed it to an 80 because you smell funny."

You'd flip out.

Same goes for a standardized test. They put those numbers out well in advance because they know people and publishers will rely on them, so they aren't just going to change them randomly.

I believe that the new test scoring system involves them deciding a weighting for each question based on how easy it was. So if the test is full of easy questions then getting a lot of answers right will count for less than if the test was stuffed with really tricky questions. So "90 points" doesn't mean "you need to answer 50% of the questions correctly": that boundary will vary from year to year, with the aim being that "90 points" in 2010 and "90 points" in 2011 both amount to the same level of Japanese ability.

It does look from the fairly low per-section minima as if that is unlikely to be a problem for anybody, contrary to some early worries, although again how many questions you need to get right to score "19 points" is going to vary from year to year.

This does of course make it a bit tricky to score any practice tests you're doing yourself...

pm215 Wrote:It does look from the fairly low per-section minima as if that is unlikely to be a problem for anybody, contrary to some early worries, although again how many questions you need to get right to score "19 points" is going to vary from year to year.

IMO they're targeting students that used to cram the kanji and grammar and hope that they could ace those sections, miserably fail the listening and still pass.

The most significant change to me is that it's now 1/3 listening, 1/3 reading and 1/3 kanji/grammar - they are trying to make it a test for people who actually can understand Japanese instead of those that can just cram cram cram.

I'm psyched because listening is definitely my best section- if I can score 75% on the N2 listening (45 out of 60 points) then I only need to get 23 points on each reading and kanji/grammar to get 90 points (assuming it's the same pass level as July). Score 52/60 and one would only need that minimum 19 points on the other two sections to pass.

*by the way the significant increase in my listening skills is due in large part to the KO2001 anki deck- I've spent over 14 days (that is, 336 hours) and 51k reviews on my KO2001 deck since like Sept. last year and my vocab and listening have exploded. I'm sure it's also that I spend time talking to and listening to Japanese natives as well

This flexible grading system is logical and common in major school exams so I don't really understand the objections. When I did my GCSEs the percentage needed for an A* ranged from high 60s to low 90s depending on the exam.

Truth be told, they should have native speakers take the test to help determine a reasonable minimal level to pass.

Assuming the JLPT is meant to show level of Kindergarten (N5), 2nd grade (N4), 4th grade (N3), 6th grade (N2), 9th grade (N1) then have about 30 people in each age bracket take the test. Their average score of the bottom 5 in each area should determine what counts as lowest score for passing. The average of the top 5 is the 100% mark.

After that, you can set a minimum

gyuujuice Wrote:From what I heard, N1 is not as hard as the jump to N2 in terms of listening and kanji. Listening supposedly can't get much harder than N2 other than the topics they talk about.

Yes it can, pretty much anything is harder than N2 (exceptions being N3,N4&N5) . You probably can't notice the difference since you're good enough and everything sounds easy/same to you. For me its a different story, normal Japanese is light years ahead of N2. I can't comfortably watch simple anime (only get the gist of it) but with N2 listening I usually have problems only with the details/traps that are set up.

I've heard the same- that the N1 listening isn't that much harder than the N2. I listened to some of the N1 questions on the JLPT site and was able to do ok. To make it harder I think they throw in more formal speech.

I think the point is that the jump from N2 grammar to N1 grammar is pretty big, since a lot of N1 grammar tends to be written only and difficult.

captal Wrote:*by the way the significant increase in my listening skills is due in large part to the KO2001 anki deck- I've spent over 14 days (that is, 336 hours) and 51k reviews on my KO2001 deck since like Sept. last year and my vocab and listening have exploded. I'm sure it's also that I spend time talking to and listening to Japanese natives as well

I am almost done with KO2001 and my vocab has exploded, but not my listening. So, you're probaby good for the time you spend talking and listening.

Just about done playing through Tales of Rebirth in Japanese as well- at the 32 hour mark and a whole lot of it is dialogue. Highly recommended for anyone with a PSP or PS2. One day I'll get a PS3 and play some of the other Tales of ... for sure.

One of the few games I've played with a positive moral lesson as well (instead of save the princess or kill the evil race of aliens, etc). I wish more Japanese people would play this game and take it to heart (especially politicians associated with immigration and legal matters).

Sorry for the tangent, but I guess that's really been most of my 2級 prep. I'm trying to do as many practice tests as possible as well, but they're so boring...

"I think the point is that the jump from N2 grammar to N1 grammar is pretty big, since a lot of N1 grammar tends to be written only and difficult."

Excluding us RTKers, I think the main jump is the kanji second by the grammar. There are a lot of specialised words but I don't think you will need a medical dictionary.

Though I am freaking about the N2, so I should just shut-up.

If you have time to be posting, you should be studying instead!!!

Says me who is just now posting.

Back to studying now.

I'm studying how other people study how to study Japanese. >..>
＊勉強をしに行った＊

I just did another N2 (not old 2kyuu!) mock test.

Vocab/Grammar: 85%
Reading: 52% (complete fail *sigh*)
Listening: 91%
Overall: 80%

I'm so shocked about the reading. This was not my first N2 mock test and the reading has never been so bad I wonder what's wrong.
*panic*

The test I did a few weeks before looked like this:
Vocab/Grammar: 78%
Reading: 81% (!!!!)
Listening: 81%
Overall: 79%
(- since that test I focused on vocab and reviewed grammar again)

Also, they say the listening takes 50 minutes, but actually it's shorter - more like 40 minutes or so. Why?

Does anybody know if there's a break between the vocab/grammar/reading and the listening test?

Any good last minute tips for me? (Guess we all need some, hehe.)

Edit: I always have some leftover time at the end of part 1 (about 10-15 minutes, so I should probably read more carefully and go slower through the reading section?!)

Don't panic so much. That looks pretty good from here. You only need an overall score of 50% to pass, and you only have to get 31% on each section minimum.

It's not like they're going to print your scores on your certificate. A pass is a pass.

Just keep working at it. 30 days left here in the States.

Chochajin, 52% sounds bad but this isn't a score test like the SAT. It's more of a pass/fail test. I would still work on reading but don't freak out! Those other scores are awesome. I need to get a move on.

I got 50% on all of my practice tests and I am going through grammar still, I haven't covered half of them yet! I work on vocabulary for 2 hours everyday and I have been working on listening.

I wish I could crank out 80% like that. But maybe in one month I can add 20% to these areas. I did say "maybe".

rich_f Wrote:Don't panic so much. That looks pretty good from here. You only need an overall score of 50% to pass, and you only have to get 31% on each section minimum.

To be exact, 50% of the total points is needed, not necessarily 50% of the answers correct, since every question will have different point values depending on how well other people do (and this percentage is only from the July 2010 test, it could be higher or lower for the next one). This makes it very frustrating for us doing tests at home, but I think folks should be shooting for 65-70% overall for practice tests.

There`s also some anticipatory anxiety that needs to be factored in, because when it comes to the actual test day and you`re sitting there trying to remember the difference between きゅうりょう and きょうりゅう and you`re watching the people in charge of the test slowly shuffling papers around and you just want to get on with it, things start to get a little nerve-wracking and most people are not going to do as well as they did on the practice tests they took at home while sitting in front of the fire listening to classical music and sipping off a brandy snifter.

chochajin, I wouldn`t worry about the low reading score. You`re very solid all around and every now and then you get a bad or flukey section.

julianjalapeno Wrote:(and this percentage is only from the July 2010 test, it could be higher or lower for the next one).

Where are people getting this from? The FAQ on the official website is clear about what's required for a pass on the N2, and what isn't. They aren't going to start changing pass percentages for the tests randomly on us.

The website says nothing about the pass rates being provisional nor does it say that they will change for every test. It just says, "You need this much to pass the test."

The only pass rates that have *not* been set yet are for N4 and N5, and they have said that they will be set after the December 2010 exam. (Sucks for N4 and N5 test-takers, I guess.)

Unless you have a source that administers the JLPT that SAYS they're going to change the pass/fail plateau, then by all means, tell us.

Alright, well here's what they said:

国際交流基金日本語試験センターです。

2010年第1回（7月）の日本語能力試験の結果（得点）について、2009年までの
試験とは得点の出し方が異なるため、たくさんの質問をいただきました。
みなさんの質問にまとめてお答えします。

新しい「日本語能力試験」（新試験）では、受験した人の日本語の能力を、
より正確に表すため、得点の出し方を変えました。新試験では、これまでの
ような「いくつ正解したか」に基づく「素点」ではなく、「いまのみなさん
一人一人の能力がどの位置にあるか」を表す「尺度得点」で得点を出します。

試験問題は、どんなに注意して作っても、試験の回によって難しさが少しずつ
変わります。このため、正解の数に基づいて計算する「素点」では、試験が
易しいときと難しいときで、同じ能力の人でも得点が違ってきます。

新試験では、試験問題が全体として難しかったか易しかったかに関係なく、
どの回の試験でも、「同じ能力」の人であれば「同じ得点」になるしくみに
変えました。これを「尺度得点」といいます。
尺度得点では、「言語知識」、「読解」、「聴解」のそれぞれの能力を測り、
0～60の目盛りがある尺度（ものさし）上で得点として示します。「総合得点」
はこの３つを合計したものです。同じレベルの試験の得点は、いつも同じ尺度
（ものさし）で計算します。

新試験では、みなさんのいまの日本語能力を、この共通の尺度（ものさし）で
測るため、みなさん一人一人が、どのような問題にどのように解答しているか
（正解したかまちがったか）を調べて、得点を計算します。ですから、たとえば
聴解試験で正解した数が同じ人がいても、正解した問題が違う場合には、得点
も違う得点になります。このように尺度得点では、いくつ正解したかがそのまま
得点にはなりません。

So depending on how well other people do will determine the point value for each question. The ones that lots of people got wrong will be worth more than ones that turned out to be easy for most people.

Interesting.

I never really liked this exam before... now I *really* don't like it. Too bad the BJT is going the way of the dodo.

Well, there's always KanKen in February if this is a disaster.

I think it`s a good idea in that not all kanji are created equal in terms of difficulty, so it`s nice that you get more kudos for getting a harder one right, but the curve thing is not so great, although I wonder if there have ever been any tests where there was an unusually high number of geniuses so maybe it doesn`t matter. I`m more bothered by their cryptic explanations as to how it works (especially with the English JLPT site where they don`t explain this system).

Nukemarine Wrote:Assuming the JLPT is meant to show level of Kindergarten (N5), 2nd grade (N4), 4th grade (N3), 6th grade (N2), 9th grade (N1)...

This was always my assumption, but after working in a Japanese elementary school for a number of years, I`m starting to realize the grim reality that N1 isn`t quite as high as we`d like it to be. Still good for a foreigner, but I think the breakdown is more like 2nd grade (N5), 3rd grade (N4), 4th grade (N3), 5th grade (N2), and 6th grade (N1), and that`s just in regards to the reading. The listening sections would be cake. I bet an average 4th grader would pass the N1 listening without much trouble. The 6th graders maybe haven`t learned formally the writing for all of the N1 kanji, but they can read and understand a ton, and with the multiple choice and forgiving pass rate, they would get by no problem.

I'm doubting a 6th grader would be able to pass N1... there's a lot of grammar and kanji that they haven't been exposed to. Then again given that listening and reading are 2/3rds of the test, maybe they could do it.

Maybe in listening, but I don't think they would be able to read N1 material. By the end of 6th grade you should know 1000 -- which is half of the 常用漢字. :\ Also, a lot of kids don't care about 敬語 etc. But I haven't spent time in the Japanese school system.

I showed the N2 test to a native speaker and she thought the reading was exceptionally hard for the the supposed level of N2.

She said especially with the time limit and the possibility that multiple answers fit a lot of Japanese would miss quite a few questions. Although, of course they would probably pass. She even thought most jp students would have a hard time with it and her parents too, but probably an exaggeration.

It's like if I took the toeic for english, I'm sure I might miss a lot of the questions just because I'm not use to taking that type of test.