.

That's one of the things I wanted advice on: How do I ask awkward questions like, "Are you actually fluent in English?", without offending her?

Other potentially awkward questions include:
Do you smoke?
Are you a habitual drug user?
Do you drink alcohol regularly?
What religion are you?
How wealthy is your family?

You have to find out about these types of stuff through general conversation. You should be able to see if she's fluent just by looking carefully at whether she can communicate well,write well,etc. Those questions you asked above are really hard to ask straight up. So it's best to find out through just normal conversation.

As for going out with a Korean girl. Just be cautious. If she does accept you asking her out, find out it's actually a date. I remember I asked one in my grade 12 physics class. And she said yes to it. So I went out with her to movies and stuff on a Friday. But later in the week I found out it wasn't a date. But it was, so it was kinda confusing.

As for the language thing, it would make sense. This is if you're serious for a long-term thing(potential marriage or very long-term).

What exactly is awkward about any of those questions (other than maybe drugs, since you'd be asking if she is breaking the law)? Figuring out her family's wealth could be found out by asking about her childhood, what her parents do, etc.

Just have a conversation and don't cross-examine her... You've got a huge challenge ahead of yourself though. South Korea is, on the whole, the most xenophobic (and racist) culture I've ever come across. Expect every Korean guy she knows to constantly tell her to dump you and stick with "her own kind".

I've never met her of course, but judging from the South Korean women I've met at universities in the west, chances are that: she smokes, she is strongly opposed to any form of drugs, she drinks alcohol socially but not to excess, she is strongly christian (but not born again), she has a rich family, and she speaks English well but perhaps not natively.

気持ち悪い。

Don't think so hard. If you feel like the chemistry is there, ask her out. Make it clear it's a date. Don't wind up in "just friends" land, which happens if you wait to long. All that other stuff you will find out with time. The only way to learn how to do this thing is just to do it.

I have good Korean friends and dated Korean girls before. But you know what? People are different and still individuals. That she is Korean doesn't mean anything and nobody here can give you advice about her on the basis the she is Korean without knowing her in person! There's the typical rich, studying-in-the US for recognition, super religious, golden brand-name-bag wearing, caring about skin-color and $$ Korean girl, as well as girls that are just the total opposite.

To be honest with you, I don't want to offend you but your post comes across a little bit (actually a lot) weird (agree @ nest0r). You are overthinking everything.

No one would ask these questions directly (at least in the form you posted them, maybe in a more casual way). It seems like you hardly know her, if you get to know her a little bit then the questions you posted will answer themselves within a few hours of conversation.

Why do you need to ask her out on a date at all? Especially in Korean, as well as Japanese, culture I would consider it weird to ask someone out if you haven't talked before (actually it's weird to specifially ask someone out at all, it's more of a message you give by your actions. E.g. if you call her, give her a gift, etc). FIRST you should go out with her casually, e.g. study together, drink something together, THEN you can consider dating her seriously. By that time you will also have answers to the questions above.

Quote:I've googled this kind of question, and received extremely discouraging advice everywhere I look. Apparently, Korean families look down upon a daughter's boyfriend just for being foreign, let alone being from a different economic class.

Well, it depends. Like I said above, Koreans are just people. And different people have different views. I would say that wealth is not a big factor in terms of datin for most Korean's (though it certainly is a big factor of attraction for many Korean girls), race might be. What race are you? Koreans have a certain "ranking" of Asian people. E.g. Japanese/Korean are considered 1st class, I think then Chinese, Vietnamese/Singapore etc is "3rd class". If you are white it will be a little unusual but you definitely won't be looked down upon (like for example Vietnamese people). Of course I don't agree with the classifications above, but that's how it is in many old-style Korean families. If her family is really extreme, they might not want her to date a non-Korean guy because they want to have "pure blood".

Quote:Moreover, it was mentioned that learning Korean was important for impressing the family. Would I really need to achieve fluency to have her family accept me?

No, I don't think so. As long as you don't want to live in Korea don't worry about that.

nest0r Wrote:気持ち悪い。

haha true.

I also agree with ThomasB. Everyone is different. Plus you're over analyzing things. Keep everything simple. I say just start small and build you're way up to the bigger things.

She's a girl not a homework assignment. Stop reading about possible scenarios and just approach her.

Jarvik7 Wrote:(...) she smokes, she is strongly opposed to any form of drugs, she drinks alcohol socially but not to excess (...)

wait... what?

anyway, aren't those things that you naturally find out as you get to know people? doesn't it make more sense to befriend people before evaluating them as potential... whatever you're looking for?

Are any of these things important right now? The first two questions show that you've spent next to no time with her, so why are you worried about the fluency of your conversations with her parents who are 1000 miles away?

Like people have said, a few conversations would've told you what you want to know. You might not even like her, or you might like her enough not to judgmentally cast her aside for drinking once a week. If there's chemistry there, then just go with it. Stop thinking of her as some sort of social science experiment and start getting to know her as a person.

dbh2ppa Wrote:

Jarvik7 Wrote:(...) she smokes, she is strongly opposed to any form of drugs, she drinks alcohol socially but not to excess (...)

wait... what?

Ok, illegal drugs

I don't know I'm kind of shy so when I wanted to talk to a Japanese woman in my art class I just studied "Remembering the Kanji" near her and she took a peek over and started talking to me. So I don't know how that would work with Korean haha. I would try to talk to her, but that's easier said than done. You should definitely get to know her first and spend a few classes talking to her before/after/whenever.

Fun fact: The Japanese girl has been in America for 20 years and the one word I said that she didn't know was "giraffe."

TheVinster Wrote:I don't know I'm kind of shy so when I wanted to talk to a Japanese woman in my art class I just studied "Remembering the Kanji" near her and she took a peek over and started talking to me. So I don't know how that would work with Korean haha. I would try to talk to her, but that's easier said than done. You should definitely get to know her first and spend a few classes talking to her before/after/whenever.

Fun fact: The Japanese girl has been in America for 20 years and the one word I said that she didn't know was "giraffe."

Same here I'm a shy person as well. But not much anymore. In high school I would barely talk to people. And now it's the opposite.
I remember reading a paper that I printed out from online about preparing for JLPT level 1(In full Japanese) the night before and was reading it on the bus ride to school and back when classes finished. I seriously got some stares...
What's so special about me reading kanji? lol

I've always found it easy to approach women because, hell, they are 52% of the population. If this one isn't interested, I've just gotten one more rejection out of the way standing between me and someone who is. Of course, I'm terrible at relationships...but getting into them, that part is easy. I don't think you can learn how to do this by reading about it, or asking other people, you just have to do it until your comfortable enough at it that you can just be yourself and feel out for yourself if the chemistry is good.

I do agree that everybody is a unique snowflake et cetera et cetera but there are room for generalizations -- they're not all bad (generalizations, that is). Jarvik is actually reasonably accurate, I mean, if you had to make bets on guesses he's got good odds.

Anecdotally, I attended a university with a large Korean-American population, and in classes where personal conversation came up (as well as social ventures), I was surprised at how often it came up where a Korean girl would mention how she had been effectively disowned by her family for either dating outside of race or religion -- usually a combination of both. They usually stopped returning home for breaks and so forth. More or less cut off all contact.

Never did hear a guy mention it, but who knows the potential reasons for that. Lots of somewhat-bitter Korean girls who wanted to date non-Koreans, though.

nest0r Wrote:気持ち悪い。

I wouldn't discredit the guy right away. There's plenty of guys with good intentions, but who are lacking in social skills, which can be easily improved.

@ OP
I strongly advise you to not approach dating in a mechanical fashion like you would with SRS. What is key to come across as natural and slightly unconcerned (i.e. spontaneous and not obsessive/clingy), even if your real feelings are exactly the opposite. Think about it. You would probably run for the hills if Plain Jane, the quiet girl who you've never spoken with, approached you and told you she has been dreaming of marrying you and raising a family together. If you present yourself as obsessive in any way, you will automatically become "the creepy guy," and you can bet that all of her friends will know your status by the end of the week.

Anyway, is it just me or does post remind anyone else of densha otoko (電車男)?

My friend, you have not even properly talked to her, and already you are wondering if her family will accept you?

Forget the fact that she is Korean, or even Asian. She is a WOMAN. Having that kind of pre-existing thoughts just brings a whole lot of dark, crappy stereotypes into the table, and will negatively color your conversation with her, and it WILL NOT END WELL. Imagine she is a blank slate, and any interaction you have with her will gradually reveal pieces of the true story, as opposed to any crazy fantasy (positive or negative) that you might have concocted in your head prior to meeting her.

Here are my humble pieces of advice:

Start talking to her casually, forget about impressing her, forget about whether you can date her or not, forget about any future you two might have together or not, do not give any importance to what she might not think or not of you. Just take the chance, comment on how curious her bracelet (necklace, ring) is and where did she get it, or how the book she is holding is interesting, and how did she become interested in that topic, or anything about her that is distinctive and might be worthy of comment. Don't blow your mind trying to think of something clever to say as an opening line, no more than as if you were talking to one of your guy friends.
Ideally, you should approach her only a short time after you saw her. Don't spend 3 minutes looking at her across the room, thinking of something to say, you will just look creepy. There is something called the 3 seconds rule, which some people here may have heard about. It means that from the moment when you see her, you should say something to her within that space of time. Of course, it is not to be taken literally at all times, and it does not mean you should rudely interrupt her when she seems to be busy with something. Don't try to force the opportunity, or plot beforehand a meeting. If you bump into her on a corridor, or if you catch her reading the school bulletin, wall postings, or searching for books, or at the cafe not doing anything special, then you should just approach, and politely introduce yourself to her.
Eventually you might also say that you are thinking of learning about Korean culture better, and if sometime both of them could talk about it while sharing a coffee at school/university whatever, when has time and is not busy.

If there is anything you can do before talking to her, is to just decide, RESOLUTELY, that you will give your best positive attitude while meeting her. Don't think about doing anything in particular, just having a positive energy, and making sure that any moment she spends in your company is in good spirits. If you can be funny, that is a good thing in your favor. At any case, be relaxed, and don't try to win her immediately. Just introduce yourself, talk casually or explain why you would like her small advice with some project you are doing, or planning a trip to Korea, and just speak with a relaxed, casual, friendly atmosphere. Not because you are trying to impress her, but because you have decided that you are, by nature, a person that focuses on the positive side of life, and who will give the best of himself to everyone, whether they are guys or girls. Regardless of her attitude, this is something you should decide to do on a daily habit.

If she replies positively, then ask about where she comes from, and how is she adjusting to life here, how does she feel about the school life, etc. Focus on how she feels about things, not on boring facts. If you ask her about her hobbies, and it happens to be a movie, or a song, or a sport that you are interested in, explain her how you feel about it.

If, on the other hand, she remains cold and uninterested while you approached her, then she is NOT worth your precious time. Gracefully make your exit, without being phased at all, because you are clearly above such moody behavior. Saying something like, well, gotta go back, nice chatting with you, have a good day, and hope you enjoy staying here!

Also, do NOT overstay your welcome if she shows interest. A few minutes of good talk is usually enough for a first meeting. It should be you making the exit, not her. As soon as you see yourself blocked, struggling to find something to say, immediately make your exit, while the going is good, and say that you enjoyed talking to her, and that we should continue the conversation some other time. If things went really well, maybe you might even exchange e-mail contacts, or schedule there and then a new meeting for coffee. But let it go casually, don't force it. In another meeting, there will be another chance for that.

And from then on, talk to her normally, be funny without being gross, don't be afraid to make fun of yourself from time to time, don't take life seriously, focus on talking about (good) feelings and broadcast your positive energy to others, don't hide your sexual energy (trying to act like a prudish, androgynous person will just put you in "Let's just be friends" land, but just don't be gross about it, don't over exaggerate, be classy and speak with a sense of humor, good taste, and not taking the topic seriously). If the topic steers to relationships between people, then that is a good time to talk about how you feel ideally the relationships between 2 people should be, and you can ask her about her own opinions on the topic.

And in the middle of all this, all of the weird questions that you posed on the original topic will answer themselves, without you having to specifically ask for anything. If she feels comfortable with you, she will gradually and naturally give these pieces of info to you without thinking about it.

Sorry if this post is boring... just trying to help! Good Luck.

Listen to bebio.

Good post bebio. Good lookin' out.

J7, Listen to bebio. ;-)

bebio...wow, actually decent advice about that kind of thing on an internet forum, lol.

Wow and lol. Why do you need to know any of those questions before a date? A date with a smoker/religious zealot/rich/poor person will not ruin your life.

You seem to have a really bad impression of Koreans from the internet, so let me give you a different one. All the Koreans I have met are really nice, polite, lovely people. This is an opportunity for you to meet a wonderful human being.

When it comes to trying to date ESL students, just speak English. It really doesn't matter what you say. You don't have to talk about anything smart. They most likely will not understand what you are saying. Just remember, when you guys are speaking English YOU have the control. You are going to lead the conversation because you are the native speaker.

Try to imagine it from her perspective. Imagine if someone was talking to you in Japanese, you won't really be focused on what she is saying that much because you will be too focused trying to think of things to say in Japanese.

Now when you guys speak in English, I'm sure you can understand how she feels. The one that is self conscious is her. There will probably be lots of silences, because she just doesn't know what to say in English. That's where you come in. Lead her and see if she follows.

bebio Wrote:...There is something called the 3 seconds rule, which some people here may have heard about....
...any moment she spends in your company is in good spirits...
...this is something you should decide to do on a daily habit...
...Focus on how she feels about things, not on boring facts...
...Also, do NOT overstay your welcome if she shows interest...
...It should be you making the exit, not her...
...broadcast your positive energy to others...
...don't hide your sexual energy...

Yes, there are some people who have heard about advice such as this, including the 3 second rule.

The quoted points were the specific parts that stuck with me, not just from bebio, but from other sources as well. Be friendly, make her feel good when she's with you, but don't portray that you're asexual, and always leave her wanting more.

thegeelonghellswan Wrote:You seem to have a really bad impression of Koreans from the internet, so let me give you a different one. All the Koreans I have met are really nice, polite, lovely people. This is an opportunity for you to meet a wonderful human being.

This is a typical question I've seen tons on other forums (just the girl is Japanese instead usually). All I have to say is that when it comes to dating and all that kinda stuff, you're better off just ignoring generalizations you read on the Internet. I'm not saying don't listen to people's advice (you should!), but any pre-existing notions you may have from the Internet about this girl's nature just because she is Korean should be forgotten.

Get to know her, as the others posters said. Only then will you really figure out what she's really like. She could be completely different than what your average Korean girl is "like." Or not, but going into this situation with an army of generalizations about her is gonna just disappoint you

This looks like a post taken straight out of gaijinpot.com's relationship forums, lol. That's a great place to see what Internet generalizations do to some people. As stupid as that forum can be, there is tidbit of info I've seen a few people give that's like a breath of fresh air.

People always ask, "My JP girlfriend/wife is crazy, stole my kids, threatens to get me fired if I dump her, etc., etc. Where are all the good girls that you keep talking about?"
To which some people respond, "The good girls are taken by guys who are actually out engaging in their relationship and enjoying it, not sitting here posting and complaining about it on the Internet." Hence all the negative crap you see abound regarding this type of thing on the 'net.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck. And listen to bebio!