Heya all,

Finally after a few years of thinking of learning Japanese. I finally decided to do it hehe. Although I don't know where to start I got something!

Learn the kana with the help of sound and anki (+ got nifty flashcards from whiterabbit)
Learning vocab/sentences after knowing the kana with help of anki.
Learn the kanji with Remembering the Kanji( of course x) )
Follow lessons/podcasts on japanesepod101

One thing I still worry about though is grammar. its my weak link for all languages I have learned/studied.Natively Dutch,fluently English and studied 4 years of German and French cause it was mandatory on my school.

So my question is how to learn/start with Japanese grammar correctly? I saw that japanesepod101 include some grammar per lesson/podcast. Also read about Tae kim's grammar guide. And I have already bought the book "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" and I have skimmed through it is interesting, But its used more as a reference book correct?

And maybe you guys can help me prevent common starter errors.
Like:
only english keyword-> kanji
english->kana kana->english ok?
and more hehe.

Thank you all

Correct, Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar is a reference book, but it's one of the best you'll find, so great choice.

I would recommend going through Tae Kim's guide, using your dictionary to get even deeper knowledge of the grammar where you feel it's needed.

The most common advice around here though is to be relaxed when it comes to grammar. Read some stuff on grammar so you can recognize it, then expose yourself to Japanese and it should handle itself. With that dictionary as a reference, you shouldn't have much problems.

Also try to watch/listen to enjoyable material. This always helps boost you're motivation. Also REWARD yourself here and there. Sure you may be a beginner but you will soon reach intermediate after a while and beyond.

I remember when i kept bashing myself for not becoming fluent(not fluent yet) or not working enough. So I was all into "Extreme" learning methods and such. I've found out what works for me and what I can do to improve my Japanese.

So found out how you learn and use it you're advantage

Tae Kim's guide is great.

Japanese The Manga Way is really, really good for people who are easily bored, like me.

And don't forget the old way: Lots and lots and lots of input.

I also have a tough time with grammar, and disciplining myself to study it.

I also liked Japanese The Manga Way, I was able to borrow it from the public library (and RTK).

I think Tae Kim is a nice site too.

Someone posted this in another thread, and I think is a good super simple place to start for grammar (and I personally like that) before something like Tae Kim:

http://thejapanesepage.com/grammar.htm

It's like the bunny hill for grammar.

My way is to read about grammar, do other things (sentences vocab, media) and reread some more grammar. I will read up on the same grammar point again but in a different book/site, after doing the other stuff for awhile. That way, I get a better understanding of it from both usage and multiple view points. For me it's a bit slow going, but I am getting more natural and comfortable with it as it goes, and I don't feel like I'm completely torturing myself.

Also having a Japanese teacher to help me and a language partner to correct me is a big help. At some point I think it's really valuable to get native or fluent speakers to put a polish on it all.

I used みんなの日本語 1 and 2 when I started, mainly to give my learning some structure. I like Tae Kim's site for simple grammar points, but for conjugations and things I found it wasn't anywhere near enough.

TaylorSan Wrote:It's like the bunny hill for grammar.

My way is to read about grammar, do other things (sentences vocab, media) and reread some more grammar. I will read up on the same grammar point again but in a different book/site, after doing the other stuff for awhile. That way, I get a better understanding of it from both usage and multiple view points. For me it's a bit slow going, but I am getting more natural and comfortable with it as it goes, and I don't feel like I'm completely torturing myself.

I to have trouble with grammar. Even when I took French for 4yrs in high school grammar was what was always the hardest thing for me to grasp. Japanese is no different it seems :/ I also recommend a quick breeze through that japanesepage website before Tae Kim. I like how it's quick and to the point. Sure, you won't have even a semi-deep understanding of the grammar, but at least it gives you some extremely basic usage examples to get started.

I'm working through Tae Kim again now to hopefully understand it a bit more. What turned me off of it the first time is that if there's anything I hate more than grammar, it's reading about grammar. His guide is amazing for gaining a more thorough understanding of the basic grammar (and also a good chunk of vocab too), but the first time around, trying to read all these paragraphs of usage rules, and history of where some grammar came from, was just too much at once. A lot of it just went over my head and I quickly got confused. I guess my point is different things work for different people, and for me, very small bite-size chunks is what worked to get me started. I'm making a lot better progress with his guide the 2nd time around.

TaylorSan Wrote:Also having a Japanese teacher to help me and a language partner to correct me is a big help. At some point I think it's really valuable to get native or fluent speakers to put a polish on it all.

I envy you, hehe. My school doesn't offer any kind of Japanese anything, and I can't even find people who know where Japan is on a map, let alone have an interest in learning the language. I've looked around for language exchanges and the like, but all there is Spanish stuff for the most part (I live in a very Hispanic-populated area). The closest option I have to native speaker interaction is Lang-8, which I can't really make use of yet atm as I'm still way too beginner to even output the most simple sentences. My hope is just to get the opportunity to move to Japan after school, and really get the native immersion and corrections I need if I get there.

Offshore... skype could be an option, and also mylanguageexchange.com ...

Skype is awesome. If I hadn't met my language partner (which was total random luck/fate - there aren't many Japanese around here either) that is exactly what I would do (and will when she leaves). There are many 日本人 out there who would love to exchange.

wccrawford Wrote:Tae Kim's guide is great.
Japanese The Manga Way is really, really good for people who are easily bored, like me. .

Small cost, and no computer radiation yes, ... I spend way too much time behind my computer, and the lady doesn't want me to be behind the computer when she's home, so... I think the manga way is a good choice too

kendo99 Wrote:Offshore... skype could be an option, and also mylanguageexchange.com ...

I forgot about Skype. Thanks for the advice Still don't know enough to begin outputting anything yet, but will definitely keep it in mind for when I do.

Offshore Wrote:

kendo99 Wrote:Offshore... skype could be an option, and also mylanguageexchange.com ...

I forgot about Skype. Thanks for the advice Still don't know enough to begin outputting anything yet, but will definitely keep it in mind for when I do.

Work on basic output. You can easily master basic output. Advanced is another story. And intermediate speech you will definitely need to understand a lot (input) before you can think of outputting in the right way.

Awesome ty all for the helpful comments =D

@ta12121
I got some comedy jdrama's lined up for me hehe. Also some jpop/jrock music hehe. So that helps some aswell

@TaylorSan
awesome ty haven't heard about that site yet.

@caivano
thanks will look into it. I have looked into Genki but not みんなの日本語

@kendo99
thanks for mylanguageexchange.com! looks very interesting for later

Also is it considered badly to do Kana -> english(well romanji) I know it is bad to learn kani -> to english keyword. Does the same apply to the kana

My thoughts on romanji ->

Why use it? Learn the kana instead. You will know it from typing (romanji), and by starting out with katakana/hiragana all your time learning will be in japanese, meaning, you will get fluid with reading japanese symbols as you learn vocabulary/kanji. Spending the time on kana up front is the way to go (imop). I also think it helps with proper pronunciation. I can tell a difference in my classmates who use romanji to learn their vocab -> often mixing up the "e" "i" because they're pronouncing them like they are used in english.

quickest tool i know for learning kana recognition is at smart.fm ... for writing them just use remembering the kana or rote memorization like i did. I was able to learn them in two or three days by just getting a chart and copying it over and over while pronouning the syllables http://www.tokyowithkids.com/fyi/hiragana_chart.html
This one has sound files that will help, and you should be able to print it.

kendo99 Wrote:quickest tool i know for learning kana recognition is at smart.fm ... for writing them just use remembering the kana or rote memorization like i did. I was able to learn them in two or three days by just getting a chart and copying it over and over while pronouning the syllables http://www.tokyowithkids.com/fyi/hiragana_chart.html
This one has sound files that will help, and you should be able to print it.

Same here. Just rote memorization works for kana. You can master katakana and hiragana in 1 week. Both reading wise/writing wise,etc. To hear the sounds more clearly just keep listening to Japanese stuff

TaylorSan Wrote:My thoughts on romanji ->

Why use it? Learn the kana instead. You will know it from typing (romanji), and by starting out with katakana/hiragana all your time learning will be in japanese, meaning, you will get fluid with reading japanese symbols as you learn vocabulary/kanji. Spending the time on kana up front is the way to go (imop). I also think it helps with proper pronunciation. I can tell a difference in my classmates who use romanji to learn their vocab -> often mixing up the "e" "i" because they're pronouncing them like they are used in english.

I think I misformulated my question hehe. I mean is it bad to learn kana -> syllables as it is bad to learn the kanji -> english keyword?
Learning the kana is the first thing I will do before anything hehe.

Awesome Kendo99 thats a nice site. only thing missing is the stroke order but I can see that on my flashcards hehe

kana to pronunciation is fine, it's a lot different from learning kanji to keyword, although even that is a "sacred cow" that a lot of people have found isn't really a problem to break...

I learned the kana using smartfm. If you go that route you will hear them spoken, can shadow it, and copy them over and over. It will prompt you to type the romanji as well. No need for anki or reading about what they sound like. Just do it on smartfm and it's all set up for you. By the time you have mastered the lesson you will be good to go! Then of course by learning Japanese/sentences, you will become very fluid with reading it in a short amount of time.

There are other good ways I'm sure -> just my advice.

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