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I guess a mnemonic will only work for you if it's something that comes naturally into your head upon seeing the keyword. Otherwise you'll just be frustrating yourself.

Heisig's method is much more about mental images that mnemonics.
I always start by looking at the keyword and seeing what comes into my head. When I have some kind of image I then look at the kanji/primatives and work them in. Then I go keyword -> kanji -> keyword a few times before writing it down and moving on.

Mighty_Matt Wrote:I guess a mnemonic will only work for you if it's something that comes naturally into your head upon seeing the keyword. Otherwise you'll just be frustrating yourself.

This is true, however even if nothing useful naturally comes to mind, I still find it easier to hard memorize a shared (or Heisig's) story than to hard memorize the primitives involved. In that case I think it's useful to make your story as outrageous as possible.

Mighty_Matt Wrote:Heisig's method is much more about mental images that mnemonics.

There are many types of mnemonics, but I believe Heisig's method to be one by definition It makes it easier for us to recall.

wzafran Wrote:My question is this: how is it that mnemonics can help me with recalling the specific calligraphic patterns of a kanji?

Do you have the book? He gives a pretty detailed description of how the method works. Or am I not understanding you?

You shouldn't have to 'hard-memorize' a mnemonic. It really has to be natural. I tend to go with very short, minimalistic stories and focus more on the mental image; for example, to remember ridgepole 棟 I imagine the shrines in Tokyo all having massive tree trunks as ridgepoles (left primitive is tree, right is east). It doesn't respect to the letter what Heisig suggests, for example in that I use Tokyo to remember the 東 part instead of the proper 'east' (because Tokyo is written 東京), but all that really matters is that there's no confusion for you and the image reminds you of the elements you tend to forget.

Other people that have a more auditive memory tend to use actual, complete stories instead of simply a 'recall phrase'/image. A line like you said: "If you work from Sun UP to Sun DOWN you will be prosperous" tends to work very badly for me, as do the english wordplays that Heisig sometimes uses, because I just can't remember the exact formulation of a pun or sentence. Perhaps you should try a few different kinds of recall methods and see what works best for your own memory.

I tend to think in pictures or stories or examples when I explain things to people so examples often work best for me.

I tend to be visual... however my sun Up to sun DOWN is auditory. Do a search for brain.exe. You'll find it interesting as to how you learn.

Ramchip Wrote:A line like you said tends to work very badly for me, as do the english wordplays that Heisig sometimes uses, because I just can't remember the exact formulation of a pun or sentence.

I personally enjoy puns and try to use them, if possible (off-hand, dingomick's sheeping ship for 洋 and zwarte kat's Damn Age! for 損).

The introduction to the book is fairly thorough (if you don't actually have the book, the first hundred or so pages can be found online for free) on how the method works via imaginative memory. The idea is that the keyword immediately invokes an image that explains how the kanji is constructed. Ergo, a more familiar story is generally more useful as it could be more personal and thus easier to bind to a specific word.

wzafran Wrote:I understand that it's all about imaginative memory, yes? But I'm wondering how you can work your brain to make it automatically relate a certain keyword to a visual meaning as soon as you encounter/hear/read one.

That's the hard part! What (for me anyway) is even harder is seeing a kanji you know you've learned, even getting as far as remembering your story, but not seeing the keyword contained within.

I'd suggest not worrying about the 'how' too much, just keep going at it and over time you'll get a feel of what works for you. The fact that there are a load of stories up on the site is a major time saver. Between the available mnemonics; killer stories; personification suggestions; stories by users you "get"; and of course yourself, you'll nail a high percentage of RTK1 kanji.

Some probably won't fall into place quite so easily but it might be better to worry about these ones when you have the majority under your belt, or wherever else you decide to keep them!

These threads might be worth reading if you haven't already.

Your favourite story by someone else

Your favourite story by...yourself!

Yeah, I agree with synewave. Spending time figure that stuff out is a waste of time.

Even with the Heisig system, there's kanji that I can recall automatically without really recalling the story. So subconsciously I must know the kanji somehow. Sometimes my stories stick. Other times it's other people's stories. Sometimes it's an image that sticks. Or maybe something from some dialogue in a Japanese TV drama or pop song. Sometimes I can look at a kanji and magically the correct pronunciation pops in my head. And it can't explain why. Somehow, it's like I can look at a kanji and the pronunciation just makes sense. All of these things became much easier after finishing RTK1.

Basically, just let Heisig work your brain muscles and let those muscles figure out things by themselves. Don't even worry about it and you'll soon find yourself magically knowing tons of kanji.

I don't know that it can be explained in any simpler terms. Once an image has formed in your head (the more outrageous/crude/violent/absurb/etc., the better) your brain forms a link to that image. Then, when you see the word, you see the image, and the images components lead to the kanji.

Heisig's stories for the first couple hundred in the book are good enough. But you must actually close your eyes, visual the scene, and exaggerate the details. Immerse yourself in the scene completely. Everything should pop.

For example, a kanji you'll soon be on is "defeat 負 63". It's primitives are "bound up" and "clam". Heisig recommends viewing two oysters in combat, and then the "defeated" one lying bound up with seaweed on the sand. Create a crazy image in your head using this as the foundation.
What beach are they on?
What do the clams look like?
Is the winner taunting the loser?
How huge are they?
What do their eyes looks like?
How is the loser tied up in seaweed?

Sometimes you have to tweak the image or stories with other things, such as Japanese words you already know, or a rhyme, or something else. But imaginative memory is the quickest path since it's the most flexible and expansive. (*Visual memory works great, but must be used sparingly in Heisig since it can't handle more than maybe a few hundred kanji for most people, especially since we're trying to memorize in a few months what takes natives a quarter of their lifetime to memorize).

chamcham Wrote:Basically, just let Heisig work your brain muscles and let those muscles figure out things by themselves. Don't even worry about it and you'll soon find yourself magically knowing tons of kanji.

And how it works those muscles! Getting to the stage where you know tons of kanji feels pretty damn good! Come on Heisig!

As I remember reading somewhere. It's better to know 80% of 1000 than 100% of 300. Accept that there will always be kanji you struggle with and just won't stick in your head. What you mustn't do is let a few of those kanji keep you from moving forwards.

Read the book to find out.

[Katsuo]

wzafran Wrote:I'm wondering how you can work your brain to make it automatically relate a certain keyword to a visual meaning as soon as you encounter/hear/read one.

My method:

What is the first thing that comes to mind when you think of that keyword? If possible, try to relate your story to that, and then the story should more easily come to mind when you see that keyword.

(I find that technique very helpful, though I don't use it for every single kanji.)

wzafran Wrote:Just wondering though, what's the difference between imaginative memory and visual memory?

Visual memory: You see something in the real world and remember it as it is.
Imaginative memory: You create images inside your head, and memorize them.

The advantage of imaginative memory is that you can manipulate images however you wish inside your head in order to make them more memorable.

For example Heisig no. 54, 貝 shellfish. (eye & animal legs). Imagine you are collecting shells at the beach. You pick one up and are shocked to see it has a huge eye on it. You drop it in horror, and then little animal legs suddenly stick out of its shell and it scampers off.

This, of course, is using imaginative memory.