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The mother of my biological mother suicided and my biological mother spent half her life in and out of institutions for mood disorders and a purported "chemical imbalance". My step father also suicided. Is it surprising that my biological mother's father was an alcoholic and the she was very unhappy in her childhood? Is it surprising that my step father's father was from the most uneducated parts of Belgium, and used to whip some of his children with a belt, etc etc?

Don't tell me this is all chemical imbalance. The problem with science is they measure something and then they say "this is it". Bullshit. The chemical imbalance is a physical, measurable, expression of a problem that has a deeper root.

There are always multiple levels to our human experience. A lot of people will discuss he surface level of things, some people will discuss a deeper level of reality which is also true. So I won't even argue because we can not hear each other's thoughts, we are blind to each other's understanding.

My understanding is based from personal experience growing up and out of this crap with the help of what "surface level" understanding will call "spirituality".

The "spiritual" understanding of suicide, and I quote just for your information, or in the case a person considering this idea Google's up to this page is that suicide is an incredibly BAD idea. Suicide arises out of suffering, suffering arises out of unconsciousness. After a lifetime of suffering and unconsciousness what your suicide will do is ensure that your next conscience will even more unconscious, and thus full of misery and suffering.

Of course all that doesn't matter because at the surface level of things there's just this life and then it's the dark void, isn't it ? Despite nature showing us everyday in incredible displays of elegance and beauty that there is no such thing as an "end".

You be the judge of your own experience, but if I am to take a bet I 'll take a bet that there IS something, and the trust theory which my personal experience tends towards, and take the safest bet possible, which is NOT to suicide.

If medicine can help someone out of suicide, then that is a invaluable asset regardless of the current limited understanding of consciousness. Got to be practical here and now..

Personally, I think LSD should be universally legal.

ファブリス Wrote:Despite nature showing us everyday in incredible displays of elegance and beauty that there is no such thing as an "end".

The scientific method, which you say is superficial, saved far more lives than the "astonishing for elegance" of the people.

I've been thinking about death a lot lately.

I've been wondering.... what's it all for? Why do I keep going on?

I stared at the razors in my tool box and thought of all the ways they could be used... to cut... some part... of something.

The cursor's been blinking for a few minutes now. I wonder if I should say more.

Should I let them know? Then they might try stop me. I'd have to sit in a room... with some idiot... asking me questions. I'd just make things up anyway. And the idiot would know. And when the idiot called me on it I'd pretend to be defensive. Excuse myself. Go to the restroom. Waste time... until the next session came.

If a man flies to Japan and jumps off a building, does it make a sound?

What a depressing thread.

kazelee Wrote:I've been thinking about death a lot lately.

I've been wondering.... what's it all for? Why do I keep going on?

I stared at the razors in my tool box and thought of all the ways they could be used... to cut... some part... of something.

The cursor's been blinking for a few minutes now. I wonder if I should say more.

Should I let them know? Then they might try stop me. I'd have to sit in a room... with some idiot... asking me questions. I'd just make things up anyway. And the idiot would know. And when the idiot called me on it I'd pretend to be defensive. Excuse myself. Go to the restroom. Waste time... until the next session came.

If a man flies to Japan and jumps off a building, does it make a sound?

If the man flew to Japan and jumped off a building it clearly wouldn't hurt him, given he has the power of flight.

Comment defused! I wash my hands of this thread.

Edit: Also, to undelete my first response and clarify it:

A)Haha. (Not really funny, but being polite.)

Or

B)The framing is in poor taste, but not in any worse taste than more thoughtless comments in this thread, and perhaps my short-sighted inability to see tangents my original post would take. I don't understand any underlying points, but I trust they're there and well-intentioned.

Or

C)My apologies and sympathies if you're truly feeling down. Some find nihilism and existential ambiguities to be liberating and inspiring, to be free to make meaning as one likes.

Choose one of these, as between your forum personality and the wording of your comment, an appropriate response was difficult for me to decide on.

Gravity doesn't exist in Japan.

Godzilla on the other hand....

Aijin Wrote:Gravity doesn't exist in Japan.

Godzilla on the other hand....

Those are just stereotypes. Gravity definitely exists in Japan, and Godzilla is a film monster.

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shamano Wrote:The scientific method, which you say is superficial, saved far more lives than the "astonishing for elegance" of the people.

I didn't exactly say that, just that there are many levels to a problem and that if you go to your doctor and get drugs you're only working on a surface layer.

I've been to several 10 Day meditation courses and have met all sorts of people there, some of them tell you stories. Some people come with heart diseases or other serious pains, and they know very well that they need to sort out their life, they know where they come from, that is where their pain comes from. Taking medication is not a complete answer. Judging by the stories I have heard there and sometimes directly from the person (ex. drug addict, ex alcoholic..) "mental improvement institutions" (aka. meditation courses) have also saved many lifes, far too many that have been entirely unaccounted for so far. And that is not even counting all the misery that people would have passed onto their family and relatives. Cause one thing I know is if you have a person with mental disorders in your family and they take medication, it doesn't make anyone else feel better, since they just keep on repeating their drama year after year, "now I dont need medication", "now I do", " i have to go back in (mental institution)", "please take me out" bla bla bla.

I have put too much effort in my japanese study and my future to go kill myself... and it would be very sad if I die before I see Japan with my own two eyes.

腹切(はらきり) always interested me as an ignorant western child. Hopefully it's not too off topic to discuss here. I heard it was not considered honorable unless one completely disemboweled himself. Does anyone know if this is true?

Once you do see Japan and cross that off the bucket list, please wait until after my commute to work before jumping in front of the train and making me late :mad:

bodhisamaya Wrote:Once you do see Japan

Huh? Did my trollish post make you think I'm not here? Sorry 'bout that. But since you brought it up, what is it with train suicide? Is that the way to show one hates the world by inconveniencing as many people as possible? I've heard the parents have to pay a massive fine - can you confirm?

I was commenting on Elidan wanting to see japan before he dies. Most lines make the family pay the expenses of scraping your brains off the train. The charge goes up if it is rush hour from what my gf tells me.
The Chuo Line in Tokyo doesn't charge the family from what I've heard and has earned the nickname "Chuicide lines" as a result.

leosmith Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:Once you do see Japan

Huh? Did my trollish post make you think I'm not here? Sorry 'bout that. But since you brought it up, what is it with train suicide? Is that the way to show one hates the world by inconveniencing as many people as possible? I've heard the parents have to pay a massive fine - can you confirm?

His post was a response to the one above yours.

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leosmith Wrote:腹切(はらきり)

That's so totally unrelated to modern suicide... just use Wikipedia? I suppose there's still a connection in Japanese suicide perhaps with the strong social pressure, and the sense of obligation... but still..

bodhisamaya Wrote:Most lines make the family pay the expenses of scraping your brains off the train.

Yeah.. that's an interesting thought.. that suicide is often a very selfish act. Probably one of the best expression of the sense of separation that plagues the modern man. Still suffering is relative, it's very hard to blame an other person for trying to end their pain with whatever solution that they can figure out for themselves.

bodhisamaya Wrote:I was commenting on Elidan wanting to see japan before he dies. Most lines make the family pay the expenses of scraping your brains off the train. The charge goes up if it is rush hour from what my gf tells me.
The Chuo Line in Tokyo doesn't charge the family from what I've heard and has earned the nickname "Chuicide lines" as a result.

I think that's BS, the sort of 'wacky Japan' myth that gets spread around the web. If someone wants to prove me wrong without citing a 10+ year old WaiWai article, I'm open to changing my mind. ^_^

ruiner Wrote:I think that's BS, the sort of 'wacky Japan' myth that gets spread around the web. If someone wants to prove me wrong without citing a 10+ year old WaiWai article, I'm open to changing my mind. ^_^

I have no source for that quote. It might be just an urban legend, but I guess it is not something that would be posted on their website. So, not sure how to verify it.

bodhisamaya Wrote:

ruiner Wrote:I think that's BS, the sort of 'wacky Japan' myth that gets spread around the web. If someone wants to prove me wrong without citing a 10+ year old WaiWai article, I'm open to changing my mind. ^_^

I have no source for that quote. It might be just an urban legend, but I guess it is not something that would be posted on their website. So, not sure how to verify it.

Oh WaiWai, even now we miss you. ;p

http://www.japanprobe.com/2008/06/22/mai...ai-column/
http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/06/25/obi...hi-waiwai/

http://neojaponisme.com/2007/09/20/how-t...out-japan/

"Step 1: A writer at Jitsuwa Knuckles satires the ennui-driven sexual indulgence of the Japanese wealthy class by writing up an imaginary story about a special restaurant deep within the bowels of Roppongi where patrons have sex with animals before eating them. (You know a magazine is always telling you the truth when they put the word “true story” [実話] into the title.)

Step 2: Ryann Connell at Mainichi Daily News selects this sensational story out of dozens and translates it into English sprinkled with Irish-colloquialisms. Connell takes a neutral stance towards its trustworthiness, not questioning why the article never gives any names nor corroborating evidence for this fantastical restaurant’s existence.

Step 3: Lots of guys with computers and keyboards offer links to the Mainichi article, adding commentary that questions the sanity of the Japanese people.

Step 4: The chatter around Connell’s WaiWai piece leads to an entry on BuzzFeed entitled “Bestiality Restaurants,” as if there were more than one and it was a new trend in Japan.

Step 5: Perhaps there will be debunking in the near future, but we can sleep safe in the comfort that Japan is the craziest country in the entire world, where rich people pay top yen to eat and ravish the same animal."

I'll probably go to japan in the next 1-2 years, and commit suicide there
Just to better the statistics

Isn't the title of this thread, "How is suicide different in Japan?" and not, "Suicide"?

Anyway, color me genuinely surprised that a forum of people learning about Japan and Japanese could not seem to know about how romanticized suicide was in Japan for a long, long time (yes, even up to the modern period). Apparently no one here's ever SRS'd the word 心中.

I'm not saying I believe in this romanticized notion, just throwing it out there how this once existed and probably carries over a bit to today in some cases. Though I'm sure most of it has to do with people living apparently dead-end lives as well as other causes of serious depression.

Suicide is self-regulating population control. It's a necessary evil unfortunately. Along with cancer, murders and car accidents.

Ryuujin27 Wrote:Anyway, color me genuinely surprised that a forum of people learning about Japan and Japanese could not seem to know about how romanticized suicide was in Japan for a long, long time (yes, even up to the modern period). Apparently no one here's ever SRS'd the word 心中.

O Romeo, Romeo, Wherefore Art Thou Romeo?

I don't know. I myself is prone to associate Seppuku culture of Japan to today's high suicide rate but when I think about it, these Samurais didn't cut their stomachs open because they couldn't bare with the reality anymore. They did it for their family and comrades; It was the logical choice that made the situation better for the people they cared. On the other hand, most people today don't commit suicide for others. They just can't take it anymore, and it is an escape for them.

wow. this is one depressing subject...

Ryuujin27 Wrote:Isn't the title of this thread, "How is suicide different in Japan?"

That's right. I want to feel the difference

masaman Wrote:wow. this is one depressing subject...

Oddly, enough I'm totally happy with it