Nukemarine Wrote:Perhaps try it again?

hmmmmm, I just tried on a different machine and it does work. Must be other pc... no js blocked or anything, tried both firefox and ie too.

Thanks for checking!

Edit: Aaaaaargh works on the other machine now too. They must have had their end down for a bit. Soz for the timewasting ... :.

Would this type of program be good to do full time? I'm soon on holiday, and I'm only going to finish bloody RTK this time (I have 540 to go, and 27 days free... should be done in a couple of weeks). Is working on Tae Kim and Core 2k for maybe 5 or 6 hours a day (with breaks) a good idea?

Shouldn't be a problem. Though it seems that guys with longer blocks of time per day tend to do more of each section than I've broken it down to (ie all the kanji, then all the grammar, then all the vocabulary).

So I've started the Core 2000 series on Anki and it has got me to wondering how other people are utilizing srs.

Kanji was no problem because it was just going from one word (English) to the kanji. But now that I'm trying to learn the readings and the meanings of larger compounds it just won't stick.

I had Core at 50 new cards a day until I found out that that's wayyy too much new vocab to be doing in a day. I've got it down to 15 new cards a day now and I find my retention rate isn't as good as I would like it. It often takes me upwards of 5-10 times seeing a new word/kanji compound to get it correctly, but when it comes up again 1 day or 5 days later I usually get it wrong again. Is this the essence of srs, constantly drilling it into your head or is there a better way to go about this? I try to write out the reviews the first time I do them but I find I never end up going back to review what I've written, rather leaving it to Anki.

Are these just the growing pains of SRSing or am I missing something here?

I'm going to start doing ol' skool styles and write the word 20 times on paper followed with it's english meaning.

How is everyone else using SRS?

When learning new words, I find it's better to do some repetition drills with them to get them bouncing around in your head.

A while back, I used to just keep a word notebook. I'd put down a new word I wanted to learn (any new word from a Core 2000 sentence will work). I'd write it out in Kanji, the reading, and English translation (as simple of one as possible). Then, you just run through it a few times trying to memorize the readings and meanings (remember to run through it in different orders so you're not just memorizing the word order). Then cover up the Readings and English, and run through the Kanji a few times seeing how much you can recall. I found it was best to mark my progress as I went along (a pass got a slash, a fail got nothing - 5 slashes and I finished the word). Then I'd switch to the English side, cover up the reading and the Kanji and do the same thing.

Doing this drill takes about 10 minutes and gets those words bouncing around in your head in your short term memory. Anki is great for keeping them in your long term memory.

Now, that's what I USED to do.. but now, instead, I use Anki. I make a cram deck and set the intervals really low (first interval, 12 seconds). I put in 20 words at a time and do both Recognition (which show up first) and Production cards. I run through these until the intervals are at about 30 minutes - 1 hour. Then I add 20 more words. As I'm studying these, the other words come up for review sometimes.. the randomization is great and really nails down the words quickly. Doing this, 60-80 words a day is obtainable when I want to push some more words into my mind en masse. At the beginning of each day, I delete this cram deck (and review these words normally in my other deck that I pulled them from). It's sorta interesting to note that during these, I usually only fail 2 or 3 out of 60 or so new words I enter (120 cards, production and recognition) through all the reviews. The act of entering the cards into the SRS itself is usually enough to remember the readings.

But anyways, I think for most people waiting hours between reviews after only seeing a card once is dooming it to fail again the next time around. Anki's default SRS intervals are set to retain knowledge learned, not actually learn stuff in the first place.

One more note - I study MUCH more efficiently when I study words of the same part of speech. Like a huge set of nouns, a huge set of verbs, etc. You could download the kore spreadsheet (search "kore" on this forum) and sort it by part of speech, then study like that. I find it sssooooo much easier. Also, I find it much easier to study words that are Kunyomi based separate from words that are Onyomi based. But maybe that's just me.

The paragraph detailing my vocab memorization method (on paper) was confusing. As a quick example. I would write them like this:

1 行く　　　　　　　い・く to go
2 大きい　　　　　おお・きい Big
3 月曜日　　　　　ゲツ・ヨウ・ビ Monday
4 牛 うし cow
5 勉強 ベン・キョウ study

I would try to memorize it, then cover up the 2nd and 3rd column. Then I would test myself on the first column. I would "test" the words in this order:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5
5, 4, 3, 2, 1
1, 5, 2, 4, 3
3, 4, 2, 5, 1
1, 3, 5, 4, 2

haha, sorry if it sounds complicated. The little bit of mixing up the order makes sure you don't memorize the words in order. When I do this, I say the word (in Japanese) to practice my reading, then try to imagine what the English translation is (you don't have to say it)

Next, I cover up the first and second column. Then I try to say the word (in Japanese) that corresponds to each English translation. I review them in the same order as above. So you can do this with 5 words, but I found that was way too easy. 10 (or actually, 11) was the sweet spot for me.

Hope this helps.

thanks for the excellent reply zanzou.

I think your OLD method is a really good idea and will definitely give it a go.

Your NEW method also appeals to me. I would be interested to know how long you've been doing this one and what your success rate is when you put the cram words back into the regular deck. It sounds like you gotta be doing hundreds of reviews a day.

Thx

Yeah, I liked the old method. I think I just need to switch things up from time to time.

I've been doing the new method for about a month, cramming vocabulary like crazy. My success rate really hasn't been any different between the two (hovering a little over 90%), but I've been able to do the cramming faster and with more randomness to what order I'm looking at cards.

And yeah, I do wind up doing hundreds of reviews a day. But I've got two semi-long train rides and a smartphone, so I knock them out there. And I can blaze through the reviews, since I just test vocabulary (but with an example sentence on the answer side if I ever want to double check the usage of the word).

I also might mention, you can pick up word books that work wonderfully for somewhere to write the vocab in (and test it). I always bought the blue horizontal books made by Campus. They have 3 columns and 11 lines on each page - perfect.

And if possible, you're probably going to want to knock out the "cramming session" as soon as you've met whatever quota of words you've set. Letting a few pages full of words pile up would always kill my motivation and also confuse the hell out of me if I tried to muscle through 3-5 pages. I think it's better to find some new content, make the word lists, cram it, go back to finding new content, repeat.

Anyway, glad you're giving it a whirl. Hope it works out!

So let me see if I got this right zanzou,

for your new method, you're cramming the new vocabulary throughout the day and then puttin it back into your master deck and reviewing that once a day every morning?

Thanks for the information Nukemarine. It's really helpful, however I'm a little confused. When you say "RTK using 2001KO 1-555 Kanji" Do you mean do RTK but using the 2001KO order and only include RTK kanji that are needed to learn others? And is this supposed to be done all at once or in order? For example: Learn the kana, then RTK, then Tae Kim. Or do a bit of everything at the same time? One more thing, is there any downside to only learning 555 kanji (and the rest later) except from probably taking a little longer in the long run? Because for me spending 2-3 months learning 2000 or so kanji and having no real use for them and not really being able to learn anything else has always been a big no for me, so the idea of only learning 555 then going to learn other things for a while sounds great. Thanks for the help!

Arckus Wrote:Thanks for the information Nukemarine. It's really helpful, however I'm a little confused. When you say "RTK using 2001KO 1-555 Kanji" Do you mean do RTK but using the 2001KO order and only include RTK kanji that are needed to learn others? And is this supposed to be done all at once or in order? For example: Learn the kana, then RTK, then Tae Kim. Or do a bit of everything at the same time? One more thing, is there any downside to only learning 555 kanji (and the rest later) except from probably taking a little longer in the long run? Because for me spending 2-3 months learning 2000 or so kanji and having no real use for them and not really being able to learn anything else has always been a big no for me, so the idea of only learning 555 then going to learn other things for a while sounds great. Thanks for the help!

Yes, he means do RTK using KO2001 order, but when he says 1-555, that just means the first 555, not including the extraneous kanji used to learn others. Also, I had the same question, and he said it was meant to be done in order, not simultaneously. So, do the 555 RTK Kanji, then do Tae Kim, then do Core (Or whatever the order is).

Thanks for the reply smartazjb0y

Hey Nukemarine,

I'd just like to put it out there how greatly I would appreciate at Nukemarine-style beginners guide to subs2srs. I tried reading this thread http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=2512
but it might as well be written in Hanzi. It would be nice to have a dumbed down guide so people like me can make the most out of it

Thx

Well, I've been able to make some decks with it somewhat successfully, so if you need help I can help.

Dusmar,

I'm creating a video series on YouTube about getting the most out of Japanese Dramas. I'm now getting to the sections where I talk and demonstrate using subs2srs and Anki. Sometimes it's easier to see something done than just reading about it.

I've started doing Core 2k in Anki but I have two questions.

1. What should I score my self if i know the vocab word it's asking but i don't know what the sentence for the word means. Is it really that important to know the whole meaning of the sentence because some of the times I get sentences that I understand some or must but they have words that I yet don't know.

2. When people say to write when doing reviews in Anki what am I supposed to write out? The sentences in Japanese?

Thanks.

Andres Wrote:I've started doing Core 2k in Anki but I have two questions.

1. What should I score my self if i know the vocab word it's asking but i don't know what the sentence for the word means. Is it really that important to know the whole meaning of the sentence because some of the times I get sentences that I understand some or must but they have words that I yet don't know.

My opinion, in this case you're learning the word (vocabulary), and the sentence is there to help you understand the word. Don't mark the sentence wrong except for mistakes on that word itself.

Andres Wrote:2. When people say to write when doing reviews in Anki what am I supposed to write out? The sentences in Japanese?
Thanks.

For vocabulary just write out the word itself. As time goes on and you get comfortable this can be scaled back.

Just a question: for the first step, when you do Core 2K6K, should some of the kanji be kanji you haven't done RTK for? I just did the first 555, using RTKLite KO2001, and as I was browsing the cards, some were of kanji that I hadn't learned yet.

smartazjb0y Wrote:Just a question: for the first step, when you do Core 2K6K, should some of the kanji be kanji you haven't done RTK for? I just did the first 555, using RTKLite KO2001, and as I was browsing the cards, some were of kanji that I hadn't learned yet.

Here are three options IF the kanji is in the vocabulary word (not in the sentence):

1. Suspend the cards that start having unknown kanji. During the Basic phase, unsuspend them and go through them again. This seems reasonable.

2. Just do it in kana.

3. Learn the kanji for that word.

IF the new kanji is appearing in the sentence, don't sweat it yet. The sentence is there to help you learn the vocabulary.

Hmm, that makes sense. Thanks, time to get to it!

Well I juist finished core 2k (yeah for me!!)
and as per Nuke"s advice I'm chompin at the bit to start srsing dramas with subs2srs.
However, all of the recommended dramas on this forum for beginners are a few seasons old (i.e. zettai kareshi and My Girl to name a few) and it's proving quite hard to get a hold of these dramas on torrent since there are only a few seeders. Anyone else running into this problem?

Dusmar, just do a drama you like if its recent. If you look at dramas on D-addicts with Japanese subtitles you'll find 3 dozen or so shows. Also, The Girl Who Leaped through Time is a good choice. Since its a movie, just do the first 30 to 45 minutes of it for your first time or the whole thing if its keeping your attention.

First of all "Thank You!". For the Guide, for all the links, for the website itself - without it I would have never made through RTK1 for sure ... and then there is all the info...

1) Now, it took me some time to ask this since it's not really a big deal but still, perhaps someone might know... those mixed up images in 2k media deck... is there a way to fix that problem... connect them with their appropriate sentences? Sure, understanding them is not really an issue, but when you see a picture that has absolutely nothing to do with the sentence it's kind of... annoying...
If it was the sound files... it seems "easy" but images???

2) How important is really to know those kanji compounds... - I know, the dumbest question ever... after all, I love my kanji, I do, but there are compounds for the words that I know and yet coming up with the exact kanji even after just 10 minutes after I pressed "soon" in Anki seems impossible. There is just no logic in them! No apparent connection with the meaning... So, how do you deal with those?

3) @dusmar84
If you really need My Girl (2009 - TV_Asahi) files and need someone to seed them... I can do that... I am kind of collecting JDoramas... ^^;;;

@Nukemarine
Love those youtube videos! Really helpful! Keep 'em coming!

Thank you again!!!

So what do you mean by "RTK using 2001KO 1-555 Kanji"? I'm not sure what 2001KO is or how I use it.

Thanks

Ghoro Wrote:So what do you mean by "RTK using 2001KO 1-555 Kanji"? I'm not sure what 2001KO is or how I use it.

Thanks

http://rtkwiki.koohii.com/wiki/KO2001