undead_saif Wrote:My problem now lies in remembering the pronunciation by looking at Okurigana, and this becomes clearer when I read something and don't understand the word because it's conjugated!

I don't think I have encountered this yet but it's a valid concern. Maybe the okurigana is a way of fooling yourself you memorized a reading when in reality, you're just using it as a crutch. Everyone knows how to conjugate, but perhaps this is a good excuse to practice speed reverse-conjugating.

My biggest problem is still the hiragana only vocabulary. I can memorize it for about a week but after that, I forget it. I suspect I can only overcome it using a combination of both reading native material and Anki, and not just Anki alone.

Another smaller problem is for example vocab like からから which means at least three things: freezing solid, laughing loudly, thirsty and/or dry. All three/four very different concepts and I have to have all three/four in my mind before showing the answer otherwise I will "accidentally" fail it (because I forget "laugh" for example). Maybe memorizing it is a waste of time because context will dictate exactly which karakara it is.

You should never use "anki alone". Anki should only be a minor part of it, and not your only contact with the langauge.

I started to put sentences on the front and back of my vocabulary cards for lots of reasons. Words that have different pronunciations depending on what they mean, obviously, need a hint or a context sentence. Words that have multiple meanings are easier to memorize the multiple meanings with multiple sentences than trying to regurgitate a list of meanings when you see the word (a totally unnatural action anyway; when you read words in context that's not how it works, you only think of the meaning appropriate to the context.) Many words have a meaning where the definition drove me crazy. 実質 - 'substance' ... means substance as in 'the substance of the matter', or 'not substantially different'. I can put a longer English definition, but I'm more likely to misremember whereas a context sentence reinforces the correct definition. Also, I put my cards in in pairs - Kana First and then after a 3 day sibling delay is cleared I get quizzed on type-in-the-answer with Kanji shown. So, I also want sentences to distinguish words with the same pronunciation but different kanji - of which there are many.

I do it with every word now, because I find I learn better that way, and because I've come to believe that it's true that vocabulary words are an artificial unit - I believe our brains (or at least my brain) think in -phrases-. I don't have any problem with 'fooling myself' because when I encounter the words in real reading, I can read them.

Not 100% of course, but not much worse than my failure rate in Anki, and once I've met a word 3-4 times in the wild, it becomes 'really known' and I don't have to subvocalize the English translation anymore. This works too if I run into a word in -sentence- cards enough (more views than reading prose, but I've never made a word 'really mine' with vanilla vocabulary cards.)

Anyway, I encourage people to try context sentences. If it doesn't work for you you can always change, but until you have several hundred sentences you certainly will have issues with coughing up the definition based on the first word in the sentence (whether that's the vocabulary word or not.) That's less of an issue once you have a large enough set of sentences.

SomeCallMeChris Wrote:Also, I put my cards in in pairs - Kana First and then after a 3 day sibling delay is cleared I get quizzed on type-in-the-answer with Kanji shown.

Consider this idea stolen. Now I just have to figure out how to actually set this up. I'd love some quick guidance, if you don't mind.

I think I found a typo. There's a card with the Japanese sentence
うちに遊びに来てください, which supposedly translates to "Please come over to my house".
Asobi means play, so shouldn't it be an invitation to come over and play or something like that?
In any case, I don't want to memorize this unless I'm sure the translation is correct.

Literally it does mean "Please come over to my house to play," but 遊び has a much broader meaning than "play" -- depending on the context, you could translate it as "Please come over to my house to hang out" or even just "Please come over to my house."

Thanks for clarifying.

Stansfield123 Wrote:

SomeCallMeChris Wrote:Also, I put my cards in in pairs - Kana First and then after a 3 day sibling delay is cleared I get quizzed on type-in-the-answer with Kanji shown.

Consider this idea stolen. Now I just have to figure out how to actually set this up. I'd love some quick guidance, if you don't mind.

The way I did it was in Anki 1, so may not be of any use at all, however.

I created a bunch of fields, PreContext, Expression, PostContext, PreContextReading, Reading, PostContextReading, KanaExpression, Definition
I put my Japanese sentence in 'Expression' and let Anki's Japanese Support create the furigana version in reading. Click and drag the parts before and after my word up and down. Type my kana-only version of the vocabulary term into KanaExpression.
After that I made two different templates for the fact, on with a front like {{PreContext}}{{Expression}}{{PostContext}} that expects KanaExpression for the typed in answer, and one with a front like {{PreContext}}{{KanaExpression}}{{PostContext}} that doesn't expect an answer.

I had to make sure that my KanaFirst template was higher in the list of templates, and then new facts always scheduled that one earlier. Sibling delay is just an option setting for the deck, so I just opened a calculator and multiplied out the seconds in 3 days (60*60*24*3) and put that answer in for the sibling delay setting.

It's not elegant at all and may not work the same way in Anki 2, but it works for me... for a few more days anyway, but I have to upgrade to Anki 2 soon.

Quote:うちに遊びに来てください

It just means to come over for the purpose of spending time enjoyably (not for a business meeting or a study session). However, from one adult to another 'Come over to my house to play' sounds weird in English, and 'Come over to my place for a good time' sounds... well, not like the right translation. The translation as it is is fine. It's the natural English equivalent.

Quote:It's not elegant at all and may not work the same way in Anki 2, but it works for me... for a few more days anyway, but I have to upgrade to Anki 2 soon.

Yeah, we're in the same boat. I'm gonna have to move too. I'm gonna wait until Feb. 3rd to do it, though.

MetsThe2 Wrote:I think I found a typo. There's a card with the Japanese sentence
うちに遊びに来てください, which supposedly translates to "Please come over to my house".
Asobi means play, so shouldn't it be an invitation to come over and play or something like that?
In any case, I don't want to memorize this unless I'm sure the translation is correct.

Uchi ni Asobi kite is often used by adults (in various anime and dramas I've seen) to roughly mean "come over and hang out".

There are going to be a lot of expressions that can't be translated literally, so get used to guessing (and, of course, google searching the sentence in quotes - google will often direct you to the "what's this phrase" thread on this site; if it doesn't, then forget google, and just ask about it in that thread).

It can also be used not with visits to people's house but to their office or city or country; 遊びに来る is basically like "come by to do something that's not work."

I just had a quick question for NukeMarine... I have downloaded the Kore 2k/6k decks from Anki, and have read your guide to the T. However, I am having a bit of confusion on what to unsuspend for the beginner level. You state to unsuspend 1-335 and 401-565. However, I see no such labels that match this. The ones I DO see, however, do not seem to match up with your spreadsheets.

For instance, for me the 336th card is fat, and thus is not part of the beginner vocab. However, this is included in your beginner's spreadsheet (which doesn't even go up to 500, which confuses me even more).

Could you or somebody else please clear this up for me?

[RawToast]

Halorien, I ordered the Anki deck by 'optimised index' and then enabled 1-335 and 401-565. Still, I am not sure if that's how Nukemarine intended the vocab to be done.

On a side note, just short of 1000 (956)

The optimized deck is already ordered the optimized way, so you can start right away. Those unsuspedning numbers are for unoptimized decks, it's stated "Optimized Kore 2k/6k first 500 vocabulary words; for Anki Deck (normal order) unsuspend 1-335 and 401-565"

undead_saif Wrote:The optimized deck is already ordered the optimized way, so you can start right away. Those unsuspedning numbers are for unoptimized decks, it's stated "Optimized Kore 2k/6k first 500 vocabulary words; for Anki Deck (normal order) unsuspend 1-335 and 401-565"

That's wrong I believe. The reason 335-401 are held off until later is because they use kanji from 2001KO set 2 of kanji (555-1100 or so).

[RawToast]

ryuudou Wrote:

undead_saif Wrote:The optimized deck is already ordered the optimized way, so you can start right away. Those unsuspedning numbers are for unoptimized decks, it's stated "Optimized Kore 2k/6k first 500 vocabulary words; for Anki Deck (normal order) unsuspend 1-335 and 401-565"

That's wrong I believe. The reason 335-401 are held off until later is because they use kanji from 2001KO set 2 of kanji (555-1100 or so).

I remember reading this elsewhere in the topic. I ended up doing 1-335, 401-565, and then after reading this thread I did 335-401... It needs clearing up, as you could interpret it any of:

Core Index 1-335, 401-565
Opt Index 1-335, 401-565
Opt Index 1-500
Opt Sentence index: either way...

There probably is a deck where you go 1-500 optimized and another where you do not!

ryuudou Wrote:

undead_saif Wrote:The optimized deck is already ordered the optimized way, so you can start right away. Those unsuspedning numbers are for unoptimized decks, it's stated "Optimized Kore 2k/6k first 500 vocabulary words; for Anki Deck (normal order) unsuspend 1-335 and 401-565"

That's wrong I believe. The reason 335-401 are held off until later is because they use kanji from 2001KO set 2 of kanji (555-1100 or so).

The deck has a "Optimized-Voc-Index" field and "Core-Index" field, if you sort the cards by "Date created" they will be in the "Optimized-Voc-Index" order, which is the default order, and it differs from the "Core-Index" which coincide with the Core steps ordering.

There's no relation between voc-index and sent-index, and the Core index, they seem to be ordered by usefulness, while the unsuspending numbers are to keep unlearned Kanji or less used vocab for later, for those using the original Core deck.

Ahh... now it all makes sense. Thank you so much!

undead_saif Wrote:

ryuudou Wrote:

undead_saif Wrote:The optimized deck is already ordered the optimized way, so you can start right away. Those unsuspedning numbers are for unoptimized decks, it's stated "Optimized Kore 2k/6k first 500 vocabulary words; for Anki Deck (normal order) unsuspend 1-335 and 401-565"

That's wrong I believe. The reason 335-401 are held off until later is because they use kanji from 2001KO set 2 of kanji (555-1100 or so).

The deck has a "Optimized-Voc-Index" field and "Core-Index" field, if you sort the cards by "Date created" they will be in the "Optimized-Voc-Index" order, which is the default order, and it differs from the "Core-Index" which coincide with the Core steps ordering.

There's no relation between voc-index and sent-index, and the Core index, they seem to be ordered by usefulness, while the unsuspending numbers are to keep unlearned Kanji or less used vocab for later, for those using the original Core deck.

I was referring to via "Optimized-Voc-Index".

After finishing the Core 6000, apart from doing the daily reviews, I have been procrastinating.

The reason is twofold:

1) Although I want to read native material and add new vocabulary cards to Anki and make my own deck, I'm too lazy to do so. When I read manga or other books, it is a real physical book, and my computer is off (and so is the desktop Anki program). When I play video games, it is in front of a couch on a TV, and my computer is off. I'm too lazy to write down the vocab and put it into Anki. Sure, people can surf Japanese websites and play visual novels and use programs to automatically import the vocab into Anki, but that's not what I'm doing at the moment. I just don't like computers or computer screens.

2) My vocabulary skills are now ahead of my grammar skills. What I would like to do is use Anki to memorize everything in the dictionaries of Intermediate and Advanced Japanese grammar. It's only about 500 grammar items for both. That's easy to memorize, compared to the 2200 Heisig Kanji and the Core 6000. Has anyone entered the data into an Anki deck or must I make it myself? I did a search on the shared decks but there didn't seem to be any.

Finally, since I'm too lazy/too time-consuming to create my own personal vocab deck, what are your opinions on the Core 10000? Are the words in there any good for practical use? For example in the Core 6000, "red" and "blue" are useful words, while "okurasho" (Ministry of Finance) not only is it useless, but outdated.

And is there a way to download only the 4000 I need?

[RawToast]

With regards to adding vocab, I just write them down (either translation or the kanji) and add them another day; however, I unlike yourself I can just search the Core 6k for them..,

qwertyytrewq Wrote:My vocabulary skills are now ahead of my grammar skills. What I would like to do is use Anki to memorize everything in the dictionaries of Intermediate and Advanced Japanese grammar. It's only about 500 grammar items for both. That's easy to memorize, compared to the 2200 Heisig Kanji and the Core 6000. Has anyone entered the data into an Anki deck or must I make it myself? I did a search on the shared decks but there didn't seem to be any.

There is a shared deck for the Intermedia/Advanced dictionaries for Anki 2, but it has errors/typos and some words have been changed like from 私 to 僕.

qwertyytrewq Wrote:Finally, since I'm too lazy/too time-consuming to create my own personal vocab deck, what are your opinions on the Core 10000? Are the words in there any good for practical use? For example in the Core 6000, "red" and "blue" are useful words, while "okurasho" (Ministry of Finance) not only is it useless, but outdated.

I have been using that 21k mega vocab deck, but found it was full of duplicates - both duplicate entries and kana/kanji duplicates.

Oh, so you or other people are using the three Dictionary books for their sentences?

I was planning on using Anki to brute-force the grammar itself. Basically, I just see the grammar and guess at the intended function of that grammar. That's what I did with the Basic grammar, that's what I half or mostly did with Intermediate, and that's what I'm planning to do with Advanced.

My logic is that unlike vocabulary, grammar is hard to look up in a dictionary. In order to know what search term to use, I need to recognize the structure of the grammar in the first place. A chicken and egg situation.

qwertyytrewq Wrote:2) My vocabulary skills are now ahead of my grammar skills. What I would like to do is use Anki to memorize everything in the dictionaries of Intermediate and Advanced Japanese grammar. It's only about 500 grammar items for both. That's easy to memorize, compared to the 2200 Heisig Kanji and the Core 6000. Has anyone entered the data into an Anki deck or must I make it myself? I did a search on the shared decks but there didn't seem to be any.

qwertyytrewq

Hearing your progress has been very motivating to me, a beginner. I noticed you said earlier you changed the structure of the Core 6K deck? Is that the Nukemarine optimized version or is this another one you had?

I'm also curious what you did during your initial encoding period. Did you create a cram deck of some kind first, did you lean the word and the readings at the same time?

Trying to develop a workable method, and following in the footsteps of giants is a good place to start

supermancampus Wrote:qwertyytrewq

Hearing your progress has been very motivating to me, a beginner. I noticed you said earlier you changed the structure of the Core 6K deck? Is that the Nukemarine optimized version or is this another one you had?

I'm also curious what you did during your initial encoding period. Did you create a cram deck of some kind first, did you lean the word and the readings at the same time?

Trying to develop a workable method, and following in the footsteps of giants is a good place to start

Nukemarine's suggestion
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid182670

UltraRunAllDay,

Thank you sir

I'm not sure I understand how I'm supposed to use the Tae Kim deck.

For example, this example (sorry, dont have Japanese support on this computer so I'll have to use romaji):

fujisan ga nobo[...].

The correct answer is noboreta

How would I know that [...] means Potential Past form from that sentence alone?