Do I have to open yet another tangent thread?

kazelee Wrote:Do I have to open yet another tangent thread?

Your mom needs to open yet another tangent thread.

LMAO. I should get some sleep before my old trolling habits start to resurface.

IceCream Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:

IceCream Wrote:goddamn youtube

If God existed, She would be really offended right now!

i think "they" was the word you were looking for.

EDIT: sorry, They.

Yea, God sure has a rack on her!

IceCream Wrote:

kazelee Wrote:LMAO. I should get some sleep before my old turtling habits start to resurface.

troll is a derogatory term for a valid internet minority group with compulsive behaviour issues. "turtling" shall henceforth be used in it's place.

Edited by 風

I'll take that as flattery

Hugs-and-kisses 天才ちゃｎ


Hugs... and... kisses =)

What's the non-derogatory term for trolls? Maybe we should just call it 'gaying' since that's a term that just means 'bad', so as not to insult ninja turtles or bridge trolls like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremont_Troll

Thank you, you've been great! Going out on a high note.

面白い

IceCream Wrote:Get offended by something that is meaningless if you feel like it.

It's not meaningless. I'm not just arguing for the sake of argument here. This discussion is about a really serious issue that does matter.

This use of "gay" is not innocuous. It's hate speech. It's indoctrination. It's also sexual harassment. These are really serious problems and need to be addressed, not just swept under the carpet.

When someone uses "gay" in this way, it's promoting homophobia and heterosexism. It doesn't matter whether the people who use it are homophobic or not, it's still never defensible. It reinforces the view that homosexuals are social undesirables. It keeps queer people at the bottom of the social hierarchy. It lowers self-esteem and destroys morale. It contributes to the extreme prejudice that the queer community faces today. And it hurts.

There are serious repercussions to this kind of language use. This kind of brainwashing and indoctrination creates and maintains the sort of atmosphere that leads to things like homophobic violence, anti-queer legislation, and denial of equal rights. Even if it seems small to you, it's actually a part of some of the issues that I think you find more disturbing.

Why is queer an OK word but gay isn't? Its original meaning was "odd or unusual". I am getting confused. The mother of my first child is a lesbian, though I think she would prefer being called gay to queer.

I find the colour red offensive. I am partially (1/8 or so) native (Canadian) and our race was once referred to as "red-skins", so now I find everything associated with it offensive, even if it isn't meant that way. Everyone please change your avatar so that it has no red in it.

I am 1/8 Cherokee so I can use that offensive color

bodhisamaya Wrote:Why is queer an OK word but gay isn't? Its original meaning was "odd or unusual". I am getting confused. The mother of my first child is a lesbian, though I think she would prefer being called gay to queer.

Both can be OK, and both can be unacceptable. "Queer" can encompass more sexual orientations and gender identities than "gay" can. "Gay" only refers to homosexuals, especially male homosexuals. "Queer" can be used in the same way as "gay," but can also be used to refer to people of all non-heterosexual sexual orientations and gender identities outside of the mainstream. This is the way that I always use it.

"Queer" is also used in the same negative way that "gay" is, but "gay" is used this way a lot more frequently. I consider both uses to be homophobic/anti-queer hate speech and unacceptable.

Here's a good usage note from a dictionary entry for "queer":

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Wrote:Usage Note: A reclaimed word is a word that was formerly used solely as a slur but that has been semantically overturned by members of the maligned group, who use it as a term of defiant pride. Queer is an example of a word undergoing this process. For decades queer was used solely as a derogatory adjective for gays and lesbians, but in the 1980s the term began to be used by gay and lesbian activists as a term of self-identification. Eventually, it came to be used as an umbrella term that included gay men, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered people. Nevertheless, a sizable percentage of people to whom this term might apply still hold queer to be a hateful insult, and its use by heterosexuals is often considered offensive. Similarly, other reclaimed words are usually offensive to the in-group when used by outsiders, so extreme caution must be taken concerning their use when one is not a member of the group.

(From here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/queer)

So actually, "gay" is usually seen as more acceptable than "queer."

bodhisamaya Wrote:Why is queer an OK word but gay isn't? Its original meaning was "odd or unusual". I am getting confused. The mother of my first child is a lesbian, though I think she would prefer being called gay to queer.

The problem is not that homosexual people are being called 'gay' or 'queer'. What we argue about here is whether it's acceptable to use these words as synonyms for 'bad' or 'unworthy' when describing other things that have nothing to do with one's sexuality.

I always assumed that "gay" as a negative adjective describing things was meant as a sarcastic use of the meaning it originally had, "happy".

That test was gay. = That test made me happy. (sarcasm) = It made me sad.

Find me a peer reviewed journal paper that says otherwise

I not sure if there is any word that would offend me. I am heterosexual though openly non-monogamous and some people go nutso over that. (does fathering a child with a lesbian make me bisexual?)
I grew up in Arkansas so people have tried to insult me with the term "Redneck". Eh, go ahead. In Hawaii, being a Caucasian, locals occasionally called me Haole with a racially hateful intention. It roughly translate as "soul-less". OK, I agree with that.
In Japan, the term Gaijin offends some people. Not sure why. I never met an alien I didn't like.
Being thought of as stupid was painful for me as a child since I had difficulties learning as quickly as others. It was just the way I was born though and everyone has obstacles in life, so it is no big deal to me now.
We can't get offended when others point out we are different (as we all are) in some way if they don't have ill intentions. Even if they do have ill intentions, no one can offend us without our permission.

also rehirokuro

You may deny that you have an inferiority complex, but being easily offended is a sure sign of having one. People can call me skinny, cracker, gaijin, Canadian, etc all they want and I don't care. Be the bigger person and just realize that if someone is intentionally offending others or discriminating then they are ignorant. Feel bad for them for their small mindedness. By being offended you are giving them exactly what they want. Stop feeding the trolls.

You may even come to find ignorant people humorous. Someone once called me a chink cause he thought I was Asian, because I was smart(er than them) and had a Korean friend. Ahhh, memories of Texas.

Jarvik7 Wrote:I always assumed that "gay" as a negative adjective describing things was meant as a sarcastic use of the meaning it originally had, "happy".

That test was gay. = That test made me happy. (sarcasm) = It made me sad.

Find me a peer reviewed journal paper that says otherwise

In my native language the word 'gay' as in 'happy' doesn't exist and never did. Still a lot of straight people use it and other homosexuality-related terms as a way to offend each other. Homophobia is international. This usage with 'not really meaning it' is pretty new. If it had to originate from sarcastic form of 'gay' as in 'happy', it could've done so at the times where the word 'gay' was actually used in that meaning. The hateful origin of the negative term seems to be pretty obvious to most people here, even ones that consider it being washed out with time. If all you care about is 'being right on paper' or even 'not being proven wrong on paper', you can have it in any amounts you want.

I don't understand why we are suddenly discussing whether it's ok or not to feel offended when others choose to use the word describing a very important part of your life as derogatory term. Weren't we meant to discuss if it's ok to use it in the first place? It really does look like putting the blame on the victim.

bodhisamaya Wrote:I grew up in Arkansas so people have tried to insult me with the term "Redneck". Eh, go ahead.

I'm pretty sure you'd have a problem being called a 'redneck' if you and all the other people from Arkansas had been slaves a couple of hundred years ago, and many basic rights weren't given to your people until about 50 years ago, and were still sometimes systematically mistreated. And, the if the only people who historically used the word 'redneck' were those who hated your people.

Or if people from Arkansas weren't allowed to be married, and there was occasional violence against people from Arkansas simply because those people were from Arkansas. If people starting calling people and things they didn't like "Arks," in either of these situations, would that be okay?

@iAurora:
whoosh.

@Tzadeck:
Black people don't have a monopoly on being slaves. There was never targeted slavery of gay people. I am half Ukranian. Ukrainians have historically suffered just as much as blacks and jews. I am 1/4 Irish, Irish people used to be heavily discriminated against and afaik still are in England to some degree. It used to be illegal to have an interracial relationship. I am in an international relationship. Atheists are still heavily discriminated against in the US. I am an atheist. Militant feminists hate men. I am a man. People have been killed for being pro-abortion. I am pro-abortion. Canadians are constantly looked down on in America. I am a Canadian who has lived for a reasonably long time in America. Many blacks and hispanics in Texas hate white people because of perceived injustices. I am white and I lived in Texas. E T C

Everyone get over themselves and their little traumas.

Oh, and people do use redneck or its synonym "white-trash" to describe things and objects. Ex: That car is so white-trash. Walmart is so redneck. I'm sure a neuro-surgeon whose name was "Billy-bob" would have few patients. The stereotypical image of a person from the deep south states is "stupid / inbred / incestuous / racist". Someone has just as much right to be sensitive about that as a gay person about their sexuality. No one choses to be born in sweet home Alabammy.

Jarvik7 Wrote:@Tzadeck:
Black people don't have a monopoly on being slaves. There was never targeted slavery of gay people. I am half Ukranian. Ukrainians have historically suffered just as much as blacks and jews. I am 1/4 Irish, Irish people used to be heavily discriminated against and afaik still are in England to some degree. It used to be illegal to have an interracial relationship. I am in an international relationship. Atheists are still heavily discriminated against in the US. I am an atheist. Militant feminists hate men. I am a man. People have been killed for being pro-abortion. I am pro-abortion. E T C

Everyone get over themselves and their little traumas.

Oh, and people do use redneck or its synonym "white-trash" to describe things and objects. Ex: That car is so white-trash. Walmart is so redneck. I'm sure a neuro-surgeon whose name was "Billy-bob" would have few patients.

I think black people and homosexuals are experiencing systematic oppression in a very real way to this day, in a way that you as half Ukrainian, part Irish, an atheist, can't say that you relate to. I'm an Irish atheist in an interracial international relationship myself. I know that there's 0 discrimination against the Irish these days. I think there's some oppression against atheists, but it's very minor (more likely there are just many people who don't take the position seriously). I live in Japan, and haven't gotten any real crap about my relationship.

I've gotten plenty of crap about my interracial relationships, both here in Japan (from gf's relatives) and from one of my redneck relatives in Canada. My gf's mother assumes that I'd murder her if she dumped me, because I'm a foreigner. Her grandmother didn't know that foreigners had red blood (we're apparently not human). Her grandfather still doesn't know because everyone thinks that he'll flip out or die of a heart attack if he finds out.

I've also gotten enough flack for being an atheist (particularly in the US) that I am usually somewhat reluctant to mention it unless directly asked what I believe in.

I have plenty to be traumatized about, particularly from my days living in Texas. I got over it.

Jarvik7 Wrote:I've gotten plenty of crap about my interracial relationships, both here in Japan (from gf's relatives) and from one of my redneck relatives in Canada. My gf's mother assumes that I'd murder her if she dumped me, because I'm a foreigner. Her grandmother didn't know that foreigners had red blood (we're apparently not human). Her grandfather still doesn't know because everyone thinks that he'll flip out or die of a heart attack if he finds out.

I've also gotten enough flack for being an atheist (particularly in the US) that I am usually somewhat reluctant to mention it unless directly asked what I believe in.

I have plenty to be traumatized about, particularly from my days living in Texas. I got over it.

My girlfriend doesn't tell her relatives, haha, and that might be why.

I've gotten crap as an atheist pretty regularly, but getting crap for something isn't oppression.

I don't know what you mean by the Texas thing. I still think it's not the same.

bodhisamaya Wrote:It never really bothered me though

Does this matter? I knew a girl in college who got raped in Peru; she said she didn't mind and later kind of bragged about it. It doesn't mean that a whole lot of people are okay with rape, and it certainly doesn't make rape okay.

Tzadeck Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:It never really bothered me though

Does this matter? I knew a girl in college who got raped in Peru; she said she didn't mind and later kind of bragged about it. It doesn't mean that a whole lot of people are okay with rape, and it certainly doesn't make rape okay.

Ah, yea. I am pretty sure if someone raped me, I would have been a little offended. :/
Not that there is any difference between verbal stones being thrown at me and being raped in Peru...

If she didn't mind being raped, isn't that just consensual sex?