Back

Users study methods

#51
blackmacros Wrote:
ruiner Wrote:How many do you put on minerals? When do you build your 4th pylon?
The answer is: a 7 pool rush of course.
You should never stop pumping out more guys to mine minerals, unless it's late game and minerals are getting scarce. Remember, you're not BoXer, and you're not winning offa your micro. You best try to be like Busan and win off your macro.
Reply
#52
Mass carriers.

Or in the case of WCIII: mass hunters.
Reply
#53
First of all sorry for my late reply.

auxetoiles Wrote:
chochajin Wrote:What I did for grammar so far was using the "Dictionary of Basic Japanese grammar", put example sentences on the question side with blankets, then tried to fill in what was missing while recalling the rule. It worked, but wasn't very effective. At least I don't feel that I learned that much and I still struggle with a lot of grammar structures.
How long were you doing this for, out of curiosity? I only ask because I felt the same with UBJG for ages (ugh, so frustrating!), and then one day - after prolonged use of SRS and lots of exposure through native material - they just started to click. Not in an "I understand this structure" way, I already understood the mechanics of the grammar point, it was more that I just knew what it meant, the same way I would in English.
Hm, well creating the deck took quite a long time, but just reading through it and typing the stuff again helped me remember quite a few things. I think I was able to finish the grammar deck pretty fast (maybe 1,5 months, but can't really remember now). I think my "Notes" fact was way too detailed and after seeing the card one time I didn't want to bother reading it again, so I just tried to figure out what grammar term goes into the blanks. Almost ALL of the grammar terms that were used in the Basic Dictionary I already knew anyway (that means I was able to understand them when coming across them, but I also wanted to be able to produce them).

Now, I wanna be able to pass the 2kyuu grammar section and right now I really have to purely guess! I have the 2kyuu spreadshee, but now idea how to use it effectively.
Reply
(March 20-31) All Access Pass: 25% OFF Basic, Premium & Premium PLUS! 
Coupon: ALLACCESS2017
JapanesePod101
#54
Tzadeck Wrote:
blackmacros Wrote:
ruiner Wrote:How many do you put on minerals? When do you build your 4th pylon?
The answer is: a 7 pool rush of course.
You should never stop pumping out more guys to mine minerals, unless it's late game and minerals are getting scarce. Remember, you're not BoXer, and you're not winning offa your micro. You best try to be like Busan and win off your macro.
That's not true for Zerg though because of their larva system. Since they can create 3 drones at once when they need it, they should stop when they have enough and do a mass-drone creation when they get a new expansion.

Protoss also don't really need to be pumping out probe ALL the time since one probe can create all the buildings, but they should still be pumping out probes like... 90% of the time. Terrans, on the other hand, should never stop.
Reply
#55
NNNNNNNEEEEERRRRRRDDDDDDSSSSSS!

-Ogre
Reply
#56
I thought I might throw this in for what it's worth. I haven't had much of a deliberate plan up until now (I've been ajatt-ing the Japanese (Kanji is ok and I'm prob 70% good for JLPT 3) and living in Japan for 2years) but I have to pass JLPT 2 this Summer, so it's balls to the wall.

The first piece of advice I've give to people is measure time you spend on each goal within the overall project of learning Japanese. I use TimeCapture Lite on my iPhone for this. It gave me an amazing kick in the balls when I realised that actually I wasn't doing 8 hours of study a day. I aim for 4 hours a day, but make sure never to go below 2 (this is of textbook or SRS (reps/entry) study not counting immersion)

With that as a backdrop and with a solid deadline in mind, I decided to start out the next 3 months or so working my way though a few things:

A: A1 -Enter the Unicom JLPT 4 prep book into anki and SRS all the sentences until I know them inside out. A2- Enter the Unicom JLPT 3 book into Anki and srs the hell out of it. A3- do the same for the sentences in book 2

B: work though Core 2K -sorted version-

C: work through a massive JLPT 4/3/2 vocab only deck with audio

D: Finish off Schaum's Outline of Japanese Grammar (awesome textbook)

E: immersion films/tv/random Japanese people and using subs2srs to work through films/drama's Line by line. I don't bother to SRS the deck, but I find I'm enjoying and learning a lot by having eng/jp subs together with the scene and the audio. Listen to podcasts and Japanese music(I'm not a fan of manga/Japanese music but maybe when I can understand more that will change)

Tasks A to E are running concurrently. I'm also working through Yotsuba. It's not so gay that I have to force myself to read it and the English translations are all over the internets for when I get stuck.

I always thought that I'd need context to remember the words, but the vocab only deck has turned out to me the most fun! It's kind of like a quiz and it's a good feeling to be blazing though a deck t 100plus cards a day with manageable reviews.

Key things that have helped me so far are:
o I (re)started from the basics (jlpt 4) in order to make sure the foundation is strong.
o Keep it i+1 (see the sorted decks) it helps a lot - mostly helps with motivation to be honest.
o have a plan, that consists of achievable small goals with sensible dates for the milestones
o measure progress
o measure time spent and have a daily minimum goal
o use textbooks you like. don't disregard them because Khatz says so. Remember, back in the day he used to have amazon textbook links on his site.
o don't waste time with things you don't like (I've read through TaeKim, but I just didn't like it and never manage to srs it for more than a few days, so I don't!
o Use a lot of different materials- I have a load of textbooks, dictionaries,manga, books about Japanese grammar etc, that I switch to if I get fed up of the thing I'm working on. I might not always be reading a JLPT course book, but I will always be reading in/about Japanese. This seems to keep time wasted to a minimum.
o Use materials I trust - this is crucial for me, I don't want to waste my time with audio/sentences that I don't trust 100% to be correct.
o remember why I'm learning the language and use hate for fuel!
o Just keep turning up. Practice everyday will not make you worse!! Don't worry about seeing progress, just like Martial arts; when think it's all gone to shit and you can see all your errors and seem to be plateauing, that's when you're just about to level up.

Anyway, that's about all my word count for the year used up right there! hope this rambling helps someone
Reply
#57
mistamark Wrote:I'm also working through Yotsuba. It's not so gay that I have to force myself to read it and the English translations are all over the internets for when I get stuck.
we don't want another 10 page thread about the word gay again.
Reply
#58
mezbup Wrote:
mistamark Wrote:I'm also working through Yotsuba. It's not so gay that I have to force myself to read it and the English translations are all over the internets for when I get stuck.
we don't want another 10 page thread about the word gay again.
Yeah, that thread was pretty lame.

Oh shit!
Reply
#59
Jarvik7 Wrote:
mezbup Wrote:
mistamark Wrote:I'm also working through Yotsuba. It's not so gay that I have to force myself to read it and the English translations are all over the internets for when I get stuck.
we don't want another 10 page thread about the word gay again.
Yeah, that thread was pretty lame.

Oh shit!
It was fairly retarded.

/Fanning the fire, don't mind me.
Edited: 2010-02-13, 10:49 am
Reply
#60
Please dont start that crap in here thanks, I dont want to have to search through 30 messages just to find 1 post thats on topic.

Thanks to everyone who has posted their method so far, keep em coming! its a gold mine!

*edit* oh and the reason I still havent posted mine is because its going under a heavy change, see activeaero method to get the jist of what i'm trying
Edited: 2010-02-13, 11:03 am
Reply
#61
I have read the other study methods from the other users of this forum and I find them to be quite interesting and useful. I decided to post my method as well. I don't like saying "my" method because it sounds, pompous? Forgive me if I am rude >.>

I have 4 decks I use on Anki.
-Japanese free-for-all deck ( sentences and vocab )
-Grammar deck
-Kanji deck ( Remembering the kanji )
-Listening Only deck

1)Early Morning Listening

I wake up turn on my laptop and start reviewing my Listen Only Deck. I usually do this while eating breakfast. Somedays I don't feel like reviewing in the morning so I will watch something Japanese. ( I have been going on youtube recently )
I feel my Japanese has improved a lot since I started the Listen Only Deck. The question field just says, "Listen" and the answer field has the expression and the vocab and meaning. At my level right now I use Japanese definitions for my Japanese words.
My Listen Only Deck has a mix of a lot of different audio: News, Music, Short Story Audio, smart.fm audio, stuff I find on youtube.
My listening skills used to suck so bad. But after using this Listen Only Deck for 2 months I notice a great improvement. I can pick up more phrases and hear things more clearly when listening to spoken Japanese.

2) Use my Japanese-Japanese dictionary.

I use the チャレンジ小学国語辞典. 6 months ago I couldn't use the dictionary because I couldn't understand a lot of things in it. So I just kept adding sentences and vocabulary to my Anki decks and now I can understand a majority of what I read in the book. I use yahoo.co.jp dictionary and the ALC dictionary to help me understand words. At the beginning I used Japanese-English definitions. I am not saying that I don't still use a Japanese-English dictionary. I find that I get a better understanding of a word when I use a Japanese-Japanese one.

3) Grammar

I use Tae Kims Guide and also a book entitled, " Japanese the Manga Way."
I add sentences or grammar points to my Grammar Deck.

4) Kanji
It has been a little over a year since I finished "Remembering the Kanji 1." I have been adding ( slowing but surely ) Kanji from the third volume to my Kanji Deck.

**************

I read manga before I go to bed at night. I also listen to a lot of Japanese music. My girlfriend hooked me up with a ton of Japanese songs. (It was the best gift I ever received.) I don't do AJATT. I originally wanted to do that but I find that it just doesn't work out with my life ( being in the military and such ). When I read stories and articles I like to write down any words that I don't know. I try to find stuff that is with in my ability so that I am not writing down a lot of words or spending too much time on one written piece.

So basically, what I do everyday is this:
-Wake up, review by listening
-Review my Free-For-All deck
-Read short stories and articles ( I write down words or copy/paste stuff I would like to retain. I also use Rikaichan to quickly look up words so I can continue reading smoothly.)
-Add words, phrases, kanji, and grammar stuff to my decks whenever possible
-Listen Japanese music whenever I am on my laptop, studying.
-Talk with Japanese people on Skype.
-Read manga before bed.

I have been doing this method for three months ( the listening thing for 2 months ) and I have noticed improvement. I always feel so down on myself about my Japanese but when I talk with Japanese people on Skype I realize that I am actually talking with them in Japanese. I wasn't able to do that a year ago.

I would like to thank everyone here in this forum. Your ideas and intellect really help me with my goal of learning Japanese.
Reply
#62
I'm using reading to listening method for songs and drama's. So before i listen to it, i break it down, the things i don't understand and just follow along and listen to it over and over again until it sticks. Example song:

君を守って、君を愛して>

Love you はじめて会ったのは 土砂降りの雨だったね
君は 雨の中でもわかるくらい泣いていた

Love you さびしい心が 君をおそう時があったって
僕は 君の一秒ごとを気にしているよ

君が涙を流す悲しみはわかるから
僕はそばにいたいんだ君の涙を全て 受けとめる

君のこと守るよ僕が 君を苦しめる全てのことから
他になにもできなくなっても 僕はかまわない

完璧には出来ないけれど でも絶対君を幸せにするよ
僕は誓うよどんな時でも 君を守るから

love you はじめて聞いた言葉は 泣かないでだったね
君は 僕にそう言っているくせに泣いていた

love you うまく笑えない自分自身を君が責めたって
僕は 君の一秒ごとを愛しているよ

嵐の中を 君を探しに行ったとき
土砂降りのなか佇む君を見て 守らなきゃって決めたんだ

君のこと守るよ僕が 君を苦しめる全てのことから
他の誰かに笑われたって 僕はかまわない

完璧にはできないかもね でも絶対君を笑顔にするんだ
僕は誓うよどんな時でも 君を守るから

流れ星が流れるまで 君と呼吸をあわせて
願いごとを祈る君を 守れますようにと祈るよ

僕の生命の終わりは 君にそばにいてほしい
最後の一瞬だけは 今度は君が僕を見守っておくれ

君のこと守るよ僕が 君を苦しめる全てのことから
他に何も出来なくなっても 僕はかまわない

奇跡なんか起こせないけど 君といることが僕の奇跡だよ
僕は誓うよどんな時でも 君を守るから
-----------------------------------------------------------
あかし>

痛み 君と分かち合えたならば

痛み 君と分かち合えたならば
今よりも君に近づけるかな
声に色んな心を込めてよ
僕それを逃げずに受けとめるから

深く深く時がながれ 君の痛みの訳も いつかやわらぐだろう
僕にそのやわらぐ日々を 見つめつづけさせてくれ
僕は今とても強くなりたいよ もっと美しい心

愛することだけが 僕のあかしならば
愛しさそっと夜をこえろ 抱きしめてみたい
君と話す時に 泣きそうになるのは
悲しいワケではないんだよ 抱きしめてみたい
君と笑いたい 夢みる 夢みる
あぁ 僕か生きていく証にさせてくれ

夜明け 白む街を通り抜けて
僕 寝ないで君の歌を書いたよ

歌い出した鳥が少し羽根を休めるように
君もうつむくだろう

僕は君のそんな時に現れるよ いいだろう
僕は今とても 強くなりたいよ もっと美しい心

愛することだけが 僕のあかしならば
愛しさそっと夜をこえろ 抱きしめてみたい
君と話す時に 泣きそうになるのは
さびしいワケではないんだよ
抱きしめてみたい 君と笑いたい 夢みる夢みる
あぁ 僕の生きていく証にさせてくれ

抱きしめてみたい 抱きしめてみたい
夢みる 夢みる 夢みる 夢みる
-----------------------------------------------------------
僕は自由>

月面にこだます 膝を曲げた祈りに
サンキュー 60ノットの風が
***** ドブ野郎のポケットに

突然にクダまく 短すぎた怒りに
誰かこの腕をちぎってくれ
仲ばしたその先が銃になる

僕は何も見てないよ だから
どうか 僕をここから出しておくれ
今 日本中の同じ奴はよく聞けよ

僕は自由 僕は自由

僕は自由 離して ここにはいられないから
心が消えるだけ
あぁ 僕は自由 離して ここからはもう行かなくちゃ
心が死んでしまうよ 心が消えちまう

的確にうなり出す 赤い夢の秘密に
誰ぞこの子に愛の手を 隠したそのシャツが親がわり

僕は何も知らないよ だから
どうか 僕をここから出しておくれ
今 日本中の同じ奴はよく間けよ

僕は自由 僕は自由

僕は白由 離して ここにはいられないから
心が消えるだけ
あぁ 僕は自由 離して ここからはもう行かなくちゃ
心が死んでしまうよ 心が消えちまう

This helps my listening skills and plus it;s enjoyable. A lot of songs use so many of the same things over and over again.
Reply
#63
To anyone that mines sentences and enters them into Anki:
If there is an english translation of the japanese sentences (say from a japanese textbook)
do you add the english and japanese and make two cards for the sentences, one that goes from English to Japanese and the other that goes from Japanese to English or do you just go from Japanese (to english or just Japanese to Japanese) ?
Reply
#64
mygbmygb Wrote:To anyone that mines sentences and enters them into Anki:
If there is an english translation of the japanese sentences (say from a japanese textbook)
do you add the english and japanese and make two cards for the sentences, one that goes from English to Japanese and the other that goes from Japanese to English or do you just go from Japanese (to english or just Japanese to Japanese) ?
What I do is this. For example:
角番に立つ [Question card]

[Answer card]
[かど][ばん]に[た]つ
to stand at the corner of a board [You can ignore this sentence this is the "literal" translation]
to face a critical phase [This is the real translation]


Also for some sentences I don't include the translation, i just use monolingual look-ups if i can't understand the sentence. But i've gotten to the point where i can "understand" it in japanese. I just did a lot of heavy immersion/reading to understand a lot of it.
Edited: 2010-03-27, 7:54 pm
Reply
#65
ta12121 Wrote:
mygbmygb Wrote:To anyone that mines sentences and enters them into Anki:
If there is an english translation of the japanese sentences (say from a japanese textbook)
do you add the english and japanese and make two cards for the sentences, one that goes from English to Japanese and the other that goes from Japanese to English or do you just go from Japanese (to english or just Japanese to Japanese) ?
What I do is this. For example:
角番に立つ [Question card]

[Answer card]
[かど][ばん]に[た]つ
to stand at the corner of a board [You can ignore this sentence this is the "literal" translation]
to face a critical phase [This is the real translation]


Also for some sentences I don't include the translation, i just use monolingual look-ups if i can't understand the sentence. But i've gotten to the point where i can "understand" it in japanese. I just did a lot of heavy immersion/reading to understand a lot of it.
I see. So you would never make a card that was like this:

Question :to face a critical phase
Answer: 角番に立つ

?
Reply
#66
I know I'm not ta12121, but I make cards like
Question:
かどばんにたつ
(whited out) to face a critical phase
answer:
角番に立つ

note: the definition is whited out, so I can remember the meaning on my own, yet also help tell the difference between homophones.

Mainly just for words that I care to remember the kanji for. That being said, I can't say I would include "角番に立つ" in my "kanji production" group, as it's not a word that I can see myself using often (if at all...)
Edited: 2010-03-28, 5:17 am
Reply
#67
mygbmygb Wrote:
ta12121 Wrote:
mygbmygb Wrote:To anyone that mines sentences and enters them into Anki:
If there is an english translation of the japanese sentences (say from a japanese textbook)
do you add the english and japanese and make two cards for the sentences, one that goes from English to Japanese and the other that goes from Japanese to English or do you just go from Japanese (to english or just Japanese to Japanese) ?
What I do is this. For example:
角番に立つ [Question card]

[Answer card]
[かど][ばん]に[た]つ
to stand at the corner of a board [You can ignore this sentence this is the "literal" translation]
to face a critical phase [This is the real translation]


Also for some sentences I don't include the translation, i just use monolingual look-ups if i can't understand the sentence. But i've gotten to the point where i can "understand" it in japanese. I just did a lot of heavy immersion/reading to understand a lot of it.
I see. So you would never make a card that was like this:

Question :to face a critical phase
Answer: 角番に立つ

?
Pretty much, never do that. Reason why is because, the langauges themselves are so different, translating isn't good. In the beginning it's good b/c you don't understand enough to understand only japanese by itself. But after a while you'll be able to understand it in context.

So never do english to japanese. I only do japanese to english, and japanese to japanese.
Reply
#68
Asriel Wrote:I know I'm not ta12121, but I make cards like
Question:
かどばんにたつ
(whited out) to face a critical phase
answer:
角番に立つ

note: the definition is whited out, so I can remember the meaning on my own, yet also help tell the difference between homophones.

Mainly just for words that I care to remember the kanji for. That being said, I can't say I would include "角番に立つ" in my "kanji production" group, as it's not a word that I can see myself using often (if at all...)
yea i do have a production deck, where i follow this format. It trains you're memory of kanji readings to kanji. Which helps a lot. Although doing kanji to kana, you will remeber it eventaully, but it will take a longggggg time. So doing kana to kanji is faster. I remeber i was able to visualize a word with ease after doing kana to kanji and also able to write it from memory which helps.
Reply
#69
Sorry for the dumb question, and I must suck at reading or something because this seems painfully obvious, but what actually goes ON a sentence practice SRS card? I know the front is the sentence with kanji, but what's on the back? Just the reading? The reading and the translation? It seems different people have different things and the AJATT guy never gives a definitive example.
Reply
#70
ems573 Wrote:Sorry for the dumb question, and I must suck at reading or something because this seems painfully obvious, but what actually goes ON a sentence practice SRS card? I know the front is the sentence with kanji, but what's on the back? Just the reading? The reading and the translation? It seems different people have different things and the AJATT guy never gives a definitive example.
just the readings go on the back+translation if you need it. I usual just bracket the readings i don't know in the answer card. You only do it the other way around if you're practicing output.

As for khatz/AJATT, he does give examples, but his site is pretty big with the articles. So a lot of people have trouble finding what they actually NEED. I usual do it in the format i stated above for all my srs cards. I usual don't do audio only cards, at least not yet.After you've srsed for a while and did some good immersion. You will be able to remember what kanji goes in the right context. Although I even have trouble with this, not so much memorizing kanji readings that is difficult. What makes japanese difficult is using the right kanji in the right context
Edited: 2010-03-29, 10:17 pm
Reply
#71
ems573 Wrote:It seems different people have different things and the AJATT guy never gives a definitive example.
I think this is key to the answer you may be looking for. I'm not that experienced with using an SRS yet, but just from reading this forum, I've seen about 500 different formats that people use for making their cards. My belief is that there is no "right" way to set up your cards. Some things work for others and some things don't. We all learn in different ways Smile

As for me, I started a KO2001 deck awhile ago, and my format is front: the sentence; back:the sentence with furigana for all the kanji, and the English translation. Just really simple stuff.

Some people may say that using furigana for every kanji can be harmful if you already know the readings, but like I said. Different strokes for different folks. If I'm absolutely 100% positive of how to say a kanji/word (which isn't often outside of the few REALLY basic words I've seen 1000 times), I usually just skip over it when I check my answer side.
Reply
#72
Offshore Wrote:
ems573 Wrote:It seems different people have different things and the AJATT guy never gives a definitive example.
I think this is key to the answer you may be looking for. I'm not that experienced with using an SRS yet, but just from reading this forum, I've seen about 500 different formats that people use for making their cards. My belief is that there is no "right" way to set up your cards. Some things work for others and some things don't. We all learn in different ways Smile

As for me, I started a KO2001 deck awhile ago, and my format is front: the sentence; back:the sentence with furigana for all the kanji, and the English translation. Just really simple stuff.

Some people may say that using furigana for every kanji can be harmful if you already know the readings, but like I said. Different strokes for different folks. If I'm absolutely 100% positive of how to say a kanji/word (which isn't often outside of the few REALLY basic words I've seen 1000 times), I usually just skip over it when I check my answer side.
I'd say it's better to use the readings instead of furigana. As it trains you to learn those readings for that particular context. There's basically a variety of ways to srs and a lot of them are effective. But some of them, might not work for others as everyone's different
Reply
#73
Offshore Wrote:I've seen about 500 different formats that people use for making their cards. My belief is that there is no "right" way to set up your cards. Some things work for others and some things don't. We all learn in different ways
I can't remember where I read/heard it, but I was looking for something like this too at one point. I was afraid I was doing SRS (etc) all wrong, and looking for the "right" way.
Someone said something along the lines of:

Quote:That's why it's called self study.
It's not just about learning the material, but also figuring out how you, yourself, will learn the material
It's stuck with me quite a bit.
Read what other people do, try out the things that sound like they will work, throw out the things that don't, make things up yourself.
If it works for you, then that's the right way.
Reply
#74
May as well post my current method.

Current method:

*listen to japanese youtube videos, music etc during my commute.

*Read as much as possible.
*listen to people as much as possible.
*talk japanese with people as dictated by necessity.

*write down unknown words on any available piece of paper, or on my hand.

*When I get home, write all the words into a list using an online text editor. Mouse over with rikaichan and hit 's' to save the words and meanings to a file. Then import into my vocab deck. Nowadays I'm adding upward of 100 words a day. My deck, based on a publicaly available JLPT vocab deck (about 8000 words) now contains about 13000 words.

* Review my vocab deck for 30 min to an hour. I know most of the JLPT vocab so I'm blazing through the reviews pretty quickly.

The most important thing I think is constant exposure and rapid vocabulary groth. My experience is that as the amount of unknown vocabulary decreases, the brain is acquires the syntax (grammar) quite effortlessly given enough exposure (listening and reading). That said, I do intend to cram JLPT 1kyuu grammar sometime before I take 1kyuu this July. I already have 2kyuu for what it's worth.
Reply
#75
Hey, thanks to all you guys for the fast response, that really helps clear things up. Guess it's just all about experimentation then, which is completely fine by me.
Reply