Sorry about the noob question but I'm having trouble working out the correct reading for 間 when I see it it the following situations:

.The relationship between two people e.g. 政治家と建設業者の間

.The distance between two places e.g. 神戸と岡山の間

.The relationship between two countries e.g. 二国間

Is there any hard and fast rule as to when one should use each reading?

bungle Wrote:Sorry about the noob question but I'm having trouble working out the correct reading for 間 when I see it it the following situations:

.The relationship between two people e.g. 政治家と建設業者の間

.The distance between two places e.g. 神戸と岡山の間

.The relationship between two countries e.g. 二国間

Is there any hard and fast rule as to when one should use each reading?

～の間、間に＝あいだ
一時間、２ヶ月間、二国間＝かん
合間、居間、仲間＝ま

As far as I know, 間, when to the right of の, or when alone, is あいだ UNLESS!!!! 間 is actually part of a compound. For example, の間隔. 間 would read as かん, because it is part of a compound, かんかく.

Words showing time frames, space, relationships (excluding のあいだ), et cetera, are かん.

In some cases, 間 is also ま (or あい), but the majority of compound words use かん. The only way to know which one uses which is, as far as I know, to just learn them.

From what I know, usually when it's used by itself it's read as あいだ and when its used in a compound I almost always see it as かん, like 週間. Less often do I see it used as ま in a compound, the only one I can think of is 間違う.

Though this is just my personal knowledge (which isn't much) so I could be wrong!

Both those expressions are ま too:
間に合う
いつの間にか

But verb in dictionary form + あいだに:
例：食べる間に　（あいだ）

Codexus Wrote:Both those expressions are ま too:
間に合う
いつの間にか

But verb in dictionary form + あいだに:
例：食べる間に　（あいだ）

Ah, I completely forgot about 間に合う and いつの間にか. Good thing you pointed that out.

I've seen 見る間に(みるまに）

@OP

This isn't really a noob question as I think it boggles many minds. ^^

Also,

Why are people constantly apologizing for asking questions on a forum that runs on questions? Mind is wandering. Sleeep.

kazelee Wrote:I've seen 見る間に(みるまに）

Good one!

Also (both ま):
あっという間に
間もなく

There are probably other expressions where it's always ま

it's one of those things that once you learn the words they go in it doesn't pose that much of a problem.

Slightly off topic but staying with the theme of confusion is how to distinguish between 開く　being either あく　or ひらく? My best guess so far is that あく is for tangible physical things being opened and ひらく is for less tangible, less physical things being "opened" in some sense. Just a guess though from my observations...

@mezbup

I thought it was size, but that makes sense too. 日本語の謎 @_@

mezbup Wrote:Slightly off topic but staying with the theme of confusion is how to distinguish between 開く　being either あく　or ひらく?

I would *love* to know this too.

あく vs ひらく got asked and answered in this post and followups in the 'word/phrase' thread.

mezbup Wrote:.. how to distinguish between 開く　being either あく　or ひらく?

If there is a を then you know that it's ひらく since あく is an intransitive verb, but ひらく can be either transitive or intransitive. The only exception is くち/めをあく when it's your own mouth or eyes.

Other cases:

holes (in your shoe etc.), job openings あく
flower petals, umbrellas, the bottom of flared trousers ひらく

pm215 Wrote:あく vs ひらく got asked and answered in this post and followups in the 'word/phrase' thread.

Thanks for digging that up, I totally get it now.

Another noob question incoming!

Are they right about this sentence?
彼女は長い間立って私を待っていた。
間 is given with the reading ま.

source: http://tatoeba.org/deu/sentences/show/87849
And another one, just the same: 彼女は長い間、子供を欲しがっていた。 http://tatoeba.org/deu/sentences/show/3384680

I don't know whether tatoeba generates readings automatically or if they are input by a human, and.. well, both could be wrong.

I believe that both of those should be あいだ.

There's a core6k sentence with this issue too:

その間に彼は居なくなっていました。

The (native) speaker reads it as そのかん, but both そのあいだ and そのかん (in that order) are given as viable readings on Tangorin (i.e. EDICT), presumably with the implication that the former is more common.

It's not clear (to me) whether this sentence is intended merely to illustrate the alternative reading, or that かん is either required or more natural here. This lack of meta info can occasionally expose a weakness in the 'learn by sentences' method I find.

Thank you, both of you!

What a pity, simple tagging ("most natural") or a more sophisticated approach would easily add the needed meta data. I sometimes find myself wondering whether I got the right reading when material doesn't have it. The readings anki (or a plugin) generates are often not the ones I want either. We have ruby in xhtml - and I'm sure there are some other nice options - so why doesn't everybody use it all the time? :lol: ... :/

anotherjohn Wrote:There's a core6k sentence with this issue too:

その間に彼は居なくなっていました。

The (native) speaker reads it as そのかん, but both そのあいだ and そのかん (in that order) are given as viable readings on Tangorin (i.e. EDICT), presumably with the implication that the former is more common.

It's not clear (to me) whether this sentence is intended merely to illustrate the alternative reading, or that かん is either required or more natural here. This lack of meta info can occasionally expose a weakness in the 'learn by sentences' method I find.

その間 = そのま = In that room/In that space
その間 = そのかん = In that period
その間 = そのあいだ = In that interval/between them

.

According to google, you can say 靴に穴が開いた/開いてる/etc (I would imagine that's not limited to shoes; I believe I've heard 穴が開いた in other contexts too. One of those yahoo answers type sites has ジーンズの尻に穴が開いたけど捨てる？ on it)

.

Ben's post was 4 years ago and I don't think he's around to clarify.

I'm not familiar with をあく in any context -- it apparently does exist, but it may be archaic or obsolete. Both the Koujien and 日本国語大辞典 have 目をあく but the citations are from an early 17th century Portuguese grammar and a late 17th century story.

I also found someone asking on chiebukuro and a response said:
俗語的に「目をあく」「口をあく」という言い方をすることもありますが、文法的には間違いだと
されています

So maybe it's just a slang or casual use.

.

yudantaiteki Wrote:I'm not familiar with をあく in any context -- it apparently does exist, but it may be archaic or obsolete. Both the Koujien and 日本国語大辞典 have 目をあく but the citations are from an early 17th century Portuguese grammar and a late 17th century story.

The classical predecessor to 開ける was 開く（あく、下二）, so before 二段 verbs went away (I'm not sure when that happened, but people were using classical Japanese in certain contexts up to the 20th century), the way to express 目をあける would have been 目をあく.

For anyone still thirsting for 間 vocabulary:
間合い - まあい
床の間 - とこのま
束の間 - つかのま

瞬く間に - またたくまに
垣間見る - かいまみる
眉間 - みけん
間一髪 - かんいっぱつ