When I tried just learning Japanese without RTK, it was realllly easy to get motivated because I felt like I was learning something. With RTK I just keep feeling like I'm stuck on kanji forever and I can't implement it yet.

I've figured that it's definitely easier for me to just stick with RTK until I'm done, but I keep feeling depressed whenever I watch something in Japanese now, which is sorta off-putting.

I think there is no way around. Doing RTK is a test of will, especially the last 500 kanjis.

You have to remember to yourself that you are not doing RTK for short-term benefits.
you see people around you learning Japanese grammar while you are still in Kanji land, and that is hard for you. Remember that the benefits come in the long run. Its true that when I arrived in Japan, some of my residence colleagues were very decent at talking, but the reality is that they only knew about 300 kanji, while I knew the meanings and writings of 2042 (and more, since some of the primitives are actually kanji). Even only knowing the readings of about 200 of them, I could get the gist of several things in printed paper that most of my friends could not. Now I am continuing with reviews of RTK, and finally learning grammar. But I can go much faster than some of my Western colleagues, just by using SRS on the grammar points and speaking them out loud, while most of my collegues are constantly forgetting Kanji, and thus, now they are really stuck in Kanji land while you have at least gotten out of the sand pit.

Like Lazy Nomad says, it is a test of will. With RTK, you cannot brag to people about how much Japanese you are learning everyday. It is a silent, long battle with our own egos, and a difficult one to justify before friends, family, and even Japanese natives who do not understand the method. But after that, things will go much faster. It was hard for me to finish RTK, and it took me a long time, but I do not regret for a minute having done all of this sacrifice.

I would often get motivated by reading this forum, and the accomplishments of fellow RTKers.

My personal motivation was that I had already tried learning kanji in traditional ways for quite some time and I knew how futile it was. So to me, RtK wasn't actually something boring and slow, it was an extremely fast and effective way which made it fun and easy to learn kanji. When I lived in Japan, I learned 800 kanji in a year and I couldn't even write most of them from memory. Sure, I learned readings and compounds as well, but with that pace and without SRS, there's no way I was going to remember those anyways.

RtK took me less than 4 months and I learned over 2000 kanji and now I simply don't have to care about kanji at all. That's all the motivation anyone should really need.

Tykkylumi Wrote:When I tried just learning Japanese without RTK, it was realllly easy to get motivated because I felt like I was learning something. With RTK I just keep feeling like I'm stuck on kanji forever and I can't implement it yet.

1.- No one can force you to go 100% RTK only. If you feel the way you're doing things is wrong, then just adjust your study so that it feels better. For example, you can use Tae Kim's Japanese guide or other material.

2.- Actually, you can implement what you're learning. Check some manga or Japanese websites and find all the kanji you already know. Then you can find words made up by kanji you now and try to guess their meaning, and then check them with rikaichan or other dictionary software. Then use all that knowledge to try to grasp what's going on. That isn't the same as "reading" Japanese, but you'll realize that the more kanji you know, the more you understand about Japanese texts. That will give you a sense of progress that SRSing alone isn't giving you.

3.- As someone with an awful memory who took 3 months even at full time study to finish RTK, i can tell you that it's absolutely worth it! With the edge I gained, Japanese has never been the same for me since I finished RTK. Besides, RTK + SRS (ideally RevTK IMHO) will help you to learn not only kanji, but also to learn and think in different ways, and the satisfaction of efficient hard work, which will help you beyond the scope of learning Japanese.

Quote:I've figured that it's definitely easier for me to just stick with RTK until I'm done, but I keep feeling depressed whenever I watch something in Japanese now, which is sorta off-putting.

RTK in the long run will help you improve listening skills by helping you acquire new vocabulary. Nevertheless, in the short run RTK will prepare you to develop your reading skills, not listening. Listening and reading are interrelated but different skills, so don't think that progress in one of them will show equally in the other.

If your immediate lack of listening skills makes you feel bad about RTK, then you're approaching your situation from the wrong angle (which is probably making you feel lost and lacking progress). You could:

A) Focus on written Japanese and listening to the language for immersion and fun purposes only, without caring too much about how much you understand now, because you now you'll have time for improving your listening later.

B) Recognize that if you want to improve your listening right now, you'll have to do something to work directly on your listening skills (i.e. something besides RTK).

Both routes are equally valid, and you can even play a bit and mix them. If you don't feel you're learning is on the right route, adjust your course as many times as needed.

Good luck and がんばって!

For the first half of the book, it was hugely motivating was seeing kanji I had learn pop up in the anime I was watching. However After half way the novelty wore off and it became frustrating not to be able to read them.

What kep me going was that I took a break of 5 days, where I just reviewed and stopped adding. This gave me a break and helped solodify the kanji I already knew. Then i went back to adding 10 a day, then 20, and it felt so easy after a bit of a rest.

It was a struggle again up until about 3/4 of the book, then it was plain sailing; I rushed through because the end was in sight and I just wanted to finish! Like many have said, think of the process as a marathon rather than a sprint, and take breaks (but never stop reviewing!) if get bored..

Tykkylumi Wrote:When I tried just learning Japanese without RTK, it was realllly easy to get motivated because I felt like I was learning something. With RTK I just keep feeling like I'm stuck on kanji forever and I can't implement it yet.

I've figured that it's definitely easier for me to just stick with RTK until I'm done, but I keep feeling depressed whenever I watch something in Japanese now, which is sorta off-putting.

Have you tried watching Japanese TV drama? Starting last season (Fall 2009) nearly all Japanese drama on d-addicts.com will have perfect japanese subtitles (since they are automatically captured from the HDTV video streams).

They are EXACT subtitles, which means they are EXACTLY what the characters are saying. So you get every single word they are saying. And you can bet that every word can be used in conversation, since the actors are speaking to each other!

Also, even when you finish RTK, there is still a lot to learn. So it's not like you'll be able to understand every single word.

My advice would be to find something to do in japanese everyday (even if its only a few minutes) and just don't worry so much about whether or not you know every single word.

Fluency tends to creep up on you slowly without you realizing it.
It's not like you'll wake up one day and know everything.

But yes, do keep up with your reviews as much as possible.

Lastly, keep in mind that most Japanese learners don't ever learn all 2042 kanji in their lifetime. So finishing Heisig at a slow pace (even 1 year) is a major accomplishment. So don't worry too much about speed.

LazyNomad Wrote:I think there is no way around. Doing RTK is a test of will, especially the last 500 kanjis.

I'm actually finding the last 500 going like a breeze (I am at 1756 now). Before that, it seemed like an enormous mountain I would never be able to climb, but now I am going downhill again and picking up speed accordingly.

A daily diary/journal/log, it is encouraging to see how if you just put in the time/add the kanji, you'll eventually get to your goal.

I started RTK in February 2009 and now I'm at 1730. It's an average of little more than 5 new kanji per day. In reality though, I've been adding new kanji when I felt like it. If I was too tired or not very much into the whole kanji study at the time, I just did the reviews, and sometimes not even all of them (timeboxing is great for this). However, if I felt excited about learning new kanji and had a few hours to spare (procrastinating on doing some stuff for work or around the house), I added 30+ new characters. On an average day, yes, I just added 5 new kanji, did the reviews (I don't have more than 50 per day, usually less) and felt like I accomplished something.

Granted, it's been almost a year, and I haven't finished yet, but I'm close to being done. It feels good that out of 1730 cards in my anki deck 89.9% are mature with the average interval for the deck being 144.7 days. It's taking a while, but then again, I'm not in a hurry to learn Japanese, I just do it for fun. Had I started this 5 years ago, I'd probably be fluent by now. On the same token, if I just continue slowly like this, in 4 years I should get to that same level of fluency.

So my best advice is don't stress out. If you don't feel like doing kanji at all, just do a few (say do them for 5 min and be done for the day). When you don't feel the pressure to do them, you'll be much more likely to enjoy doing them.

Also, reading Japanese materials does boost my motivation greatly. I'm now able to understand manga, even some more complex ones. Nothing can replace that feeling of accomplishment.

The biggest motivation for me has always been the increased ability to recognise kanji in sentences. Before starting RTK I had trouble recognising certain kanji even though I did know the word thanks to the furigana.