I was pondering this the other day. If I go to live in Japan, would it make sense to adopt a Japanese nickname at all? It's quite common the other way around, but is it done at all over there - Westerners adopting Eastern names, even just as a nickname to simplify introductions or something? My first name, Basil, goes into バジル, with a possible J sound instead of Z in the middle which converts it weirdly into Bajiru. My last name isn't so bad however, and I'd keep that anyway.

Any thoughts?

I think most of those name changes are due to names that sound horrible in English like Chin Wang Dong or something. You can hear retarded 和製英語 words being said somewhere in Japan approximately 10,000 times every 0.01 seconds, so I don't think one more English guy's name is going to make a difference. Katakana is considered "cool", whereas people who give themselves kanji names just sound like figurine-collecting, ero-ge playing, cosplaying, socially inept douches. I say stick with バジル.

Yeah I see what you mean. Be probably a lot easier to go with バジル than something like Shinji or whatever, which probably would make me look like a bit of a twat.

Thanks

Hehe, Chin Wang Dong

Basil is an awesome first name.

If you're Asian I think it's fitting to give yourself a Japanese name. If you're not, I think it's best to just use your katakana-ized name.

harhol Wrote:Basil is an awesome first name.

Agreed. And バジル is pretty wicked, too. ^^

If there is a Japanese name you really like, though, I don't see anything wrong with taking it as a nickname. (And Grinkers, I don't think it matters whether you're Asian or not.) But I think it should be more because you really like the name, not to make introductions easier or whatever. ;p

Javizy Wrote:You can hear retarded 和製英語 words being said somewhere in Japan approximately 10,000 times every 0.01 seconds

It's really not cool at all to call wasei-eigo words "retarded" just because you don't personally like them, and furthermore, you shouldn't be using the word "retarded" disparagingly. I don't see you complaining about how the vast majority of the words in the English lexicon aren't originally derived from Anglo-Saxon.

shirokuro Wrote:

Javizy Wrote:You can hear retarded 和製英語 words being said somewhere in Japan approximately 10,000 times every 0.01 seconds

It's really not cool at all to call wasei-eigo words "retarded" just because you don't personally like them, and furthermore you shouldn't be calling anything or anyone "retarded," and you definitely shouldn't use it disparagingly. I don't see you complaining about how the vast majority of the words in the English lexicon aren't originally derived from Anglo-Saxon.

It's not politically correct, I guess. I think there are significant differences in the origin of an entire language and hundreds of silly little pointless words that sound atrocious to the English speaker's ear being obnoxiously used by Japanese. I'll admit that they have been quite helpful in learning Japanese, but I don't think that's really such a good thing. I use them mostly as a joke in conversation, which makes it harder to swallow serious lines like this from interviews and such -- インスパイアして、エナジーをもらう.

和製英語 aren't the same as your example, because 和製英語 are not loanwords or an evolution from loaned words. They're words created in a foreign language that they don't even speak, and then used in their own language. It's actively finding English terms that they do not use in Japanese, mashing them up, and using them as Japanese words. It's irritating.
Of course, Rome would probably think us just as irritating, but I would not begrudge them their right to think so


Anyway, Japanese people know all of the common English names anyway, so adopting a Japanese name doesn't really make anything simpler. And while Basil isn't common, it is, as noted, badass, so it all evens out!

Javizy Wrote:It's not politically correct, I guess. [...]

No, it's not politically correct, but it's also much worse than that. Even if it seems like it's harmless or just an accepted slang usage, it's actually contemptuous and very hurtful to a group of people who have to face enough prejudice as it is. So please don't call things or people "retarded" as an insult.

Javizy Wrote:I think there are significant differences in the origin of an entire language and hundreds of silly little pointless words that sound atrocious to the English speaker's ear being obnoxiously used by Japanese.

Wasei-eigo words obviously aren't "pointless," because otherwise they wouldn't be used as frequently as they are. If you don't like them, you don't have to use them. But you might want to try to be a little more sensitive. I think I'd be a bit offended if someone who had learned English as a foreign language told me that hundreds of words in my mother tongue were "retarded" or "pointless."

Edit: typo.

QuackingShoe Wrote:和製英語 aren't the same as your example, because 和製英語 are not loanwords or an evolution from loaned words. They're words created in a foreign language that they don't even speak, and then used in their own language. It's actively finding English terms that they do not use in Japanese, mashing them up, and using them as Japanese words. It's irritating.

I get where you're coming from, but why does the etymology really matter? Remember that wasei-eigo words are Japanese words, not English words. Sure, a lot of wasei-eigo words might seem kind of silly to English speakers, but I still don't think it's right to criticize other people's languages, including their use (or "misuse") of foreign words. (Personally, I actually find wasei-eigo words really interesting, because I think it's cool to see how people from a different culture and who speak a different language use English vocabulary.)

Quote:Of course, Rome would probably think us just as irritating, but I would not begrudge them their right to think so

It strikes me as totally elitist to tell someone that they're using words in their language incorrectly because they would be used differently in the language that they came from.

Is there really some kind of semi-objectively legitimate metalinguistic concern with regards to 和製英語, or is it just a subjective foreigner irritation? I ask because it reminds of the katakanification essay I linked a while back, which--even if the crux of the argument was somewhat prescriptive--I found fascinating for its insights and examples, in other words, its sideways perspective even if it tried to wrap it into a top-down argument.

This post reminds me of those Chinese/HK films where all the names are changed to stuff like "Larry" in the English subtitles.

harhol Wrote:Basil is an awesome first name.

Basil Rathbone. Doesn't one of those trendy young Twilight actors have the last name Rathbone? That's a cool name.

I guess walking around calling myself Takeshi Smith (that's not my last name, by the way), would sound rather ridiculous.
It's weird how it doesn't work that way the other way around

Jay Chou, Anne Suzuki, even "Beat" Takeshi

or in China

Anthony Wong, Andy Lau

sounds perfectly normal. Odd, isn't it

You'd a sort of Japanese sounding last name for it to really work

shirokuro Wrote:

Javizy Wrote:You can hear retarded 和製英語 words being said somewhere in Japan approximately 10,000 times every 0.01 seconds

It's really not cool at all to call wasei-eigo words "retarded" just because you don't personally like them, and furthermore, you shouldn't be using the word "retarded" disparagingly.

Javizy Wrote:I think most of those name changes are due to names that sound horrible in English like Chin Wang Dong or something......Katakana is considered "cool", whereas people who give themselves kanji names just sound like figurine-collecting, ero-ge playing, cosplaying, socially inept douches.

But it was the "retarded" that bothered you, huh? Go figure.

Siibillam Wrote:I guess walking around calling myself Takeshi Smith (that's not my last name, by the way), would sound rather ridiculous.

No more ridiculous than Julia Goldstein or Hakeem Franklin.

Siibillam Wrote:You'd a sort of Japanese sounding last name for it to really work

Why's that? You're not telling this name to Westerns. You're telling it to Japanese people. You'd need their input to get a good feel for how 'ridiculous' it sounds.

kazelee Wrote:

shirokuro Wrote:

Javizy Wrote:You can hear retarded 和製英語 words being said somewhere in Japan approximately 10,000 times every 0.01 seconds

It's really not cool at all to call wasei-eigo words "retarded" just because you don't personally like them, and furthermore, you shouldn't be using the word "retarded" disparagingly.

Javizy Wrote:I think most of those name changes are due to names that sound horrible in English like Chin Wang Dong or something......Katakana is considered "cool", whereas people who give themselves kanji names just sound like figurine-collecting, ero-ge playing, cosplaying, socially inept douches.

But it was the "retarded" that bothered you, huh? Go figure.

Yeah, there was a lot of objectionable stuff in that post, but I was trying to ignore most of it. I was really bothered by "retarded" because it was a repeat offence: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...0#pid83820

Edit: Also, it was more than just how Javizy used "retarded"; I was also annoyed by how this is the second time that he has either criticized or challenged the legitimacy of wasei-eigo words in Japanese. (Notice that I criticized his disapproval of wasei-eigo words before I criticized his use of the word "retarded.")

shirokuro Wrote:No, it's not politically correct, but it's also much worse than that. Even if it seems like it's harmless or just an accepted slang usage, it's actually contemptuous and very hurtful to a group of people who have to face enough prejudice as it is. So please don't call things or people "retarded" as an insult.

Fair enough. I did use the word in the belief that nobody in that category was present on the board.

shirokuro Wrote:If you don't like them, you don't have to use them. But you might want to try to be a little more sensitive.

I couldn't live (in Japanese) without them. As far as I'm aware, officially there are somewhere around 100,000 of them. Naturally, not all of them are in daily use, but the ones that are still number in the thousands. There's no avoiding them. I liked them at first; I thought they were useful and interesting. But then I realised how relentless they were. You just have to draw the line at インスパイア.

Javizy Wrote:

shirokuro Wrote:No, it's not politically correct, but it's also much worse than that. Even if it seems like it's harmless or just an accepted slang usage, it's actually contemptuous and very hurtful to a group of people who have to face enough prejudice as it is. So please don't call things or people "retarded" as an insult.

Fair enough. I did use the word in the belief that nobody in that category was present on the board.

Thank you. But please realize that it shouldn't matter whether there are developmentally-disabled members on this board or not. I'm not developmentally disabled, but I'm still personally offended as a humanist who disapproves of discrimination based on mental disabilities (among many other things).

Javizy Wrote:

shirokuro Wrote:If you don't like them, you don't have to use them. But you might want to try to be a little more sensitive.

I couldn't live (in Japanese) without them. As far as I'm aware, officially there are somewhere around 100,000 of them. Naturally, not all of them are in daily use, but the ones that are still number in the thousands. There's no avoiding them. I liked them at first; I thought they were useful and interesting. But then I realised how relentless they were. You just have to draw the line at インスパイア.

There's no line to draw, at least none with any objective linguistic basis. If you're still that peeved by them, maybe just think of them as a necessary evil. Still, try to consider how offensive it can be to tell people that hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of words in their native language are "retarded," or "pointless," or sound "atrocious" to your ears.

shirokuro Wrote:

Javizy Wrote:It's not politically correct, I guess. [...]

No, it's not politically correct, but it's also much worse than that. Even if it seems like it's harmless or just an accepted slang usage, it's actually contemptuous and very hurtful to a group of people who have to face enough prejudice as it is. So please don't call things or people "retarded" as an insult.

Society generally treats those who are legally retarded very compassionately I think. I had the opportunity to work at ARC (Association of Retarded Citizens) for six months as a teacher and care giver in Hawaii.

It is the group who falls into the 70-90 IQ range we often refer to as stupid and who must compete in society that face the cruelest prejudices. We unconsciously form opinions on whether we like people or not based on how smart they are more than any other factor I think.

I spent my first six years of schooling in Special Education due to a learning disability I have since learn to work around. I feel overwhelming sadness when I see others struggle due to their inability to learn as quickly.

A physical deformity or retardation arouses sympathy and compassion. Stupidy, though something no less a product of pre-birth influences, typically inspires contempt.

I would stick to a name that is honest about who you are.

I, for one, have stuck to my current name even though I had several chances to change it to something more "natural" sounding to Americans, like "Sarah" or "Elizabeth". I didn't want people to see my name being "Sarah Lastname" and assume that I was something I wasn't, such as white, Jewish (maybe), or obviously female (I am female, but I don't consider it to be important to my identity).

As long as you're happy with a name, and you feel a sense of identity with it, then pick whatever name you want There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing a Japanese name if you feel strong ties to the country, culture, and language. If that feels more natural to reflecting who you are as a human being, then do it!

Nobody makes fun of 小泉八雲 for his choice of name.

I've thought about this issue a little--I'm half-Japanese with an American/English first name and a Japanese middle name. Hypothetically, if I were to end up in Japan, which name would I use? It's not like I would be making it up because it really is (part of) my name, but since I've never really used it in the US, I think I would find it a little weird. The only reason I would consider it is I really don't like the way my first name katakanizes. But I think I would just deal with it and stick with the name I've always used.

Javizy Wrote:I think most of those name changes are due to names that sound horrible in English like Chin Wang Dong or something.

Actually, it's because they get sick of people getting their name wrong.

I had a friend whose given name was Duo. No, that's a badass name, right? First meeting went like this:

Duo: Hi, my name is Duo. You can call me Steve.
Me: Oh, hell no. We'll call you Duo.

I asked him later why the 'Steve' name and he said it was because most people call him 'Dough' or completely mangle it and he can't straighten them out. So he gave up and just went with 'Steve'.

Aijin Wrote:Nobody makes fun of 小泉八雲 for his choice of name.

Yeah, true. Or Khatzumoto, whose real name I'm still to learn.

I'm working towards being a writer or director (two somewhat different paths, but I know what I'm doing), and spent some time before going over things like pen names and then decided, eventually, that sticking to my real name would make a lot more sense anyway, as would keeping バジル.

shirokuro Wrote:There's no line to draw, at least none with any objective linguistic basis. If you're still that peeved by them, maybe just think of them as a necessary evil. Still, try to consider how offensive it can be to tell people that hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of words in their native language are "retarded," or "pointless," or sound "atrocious" to your ears.

When you think that two of those tens of thousands make up more words than the average person's vocabulary, you have to wonder what direction the language is going to take. Will they get over the "Engrish is cool" phase, or will more and more of those 100,000 make their way into everyday use? It'd be interesting to see what percentage of a native speaker's vocabulary is made up of these already, since I would imagine that the overwhelming majority were created after the war, which really isn't such a long time considering the numbers we're speaking about. Completely off-topic, but I do wonder.