As someone else said: just say you're French. If they already know you speak English, then that won't work of course, but in the future if someone tries to speak English to you, just instantly respond, "Quoi? Je regrette mais, je ne parle pas anglais! Parlez-vous français, monsieur?"

It can actually be kind of funny, haha! Japanese do have the bad habit of assuming that every Caucasian in the country speaks English, so if you're in a store or something and the clerk tries to speak to you in English because he thinks your Japanese won't be good enough, just shoot him down with that line and watch his reaction

Aijin Wrote:As someone else said: just say you're French. If they already know you speak English, then that won't work of course, but in the future if someone tries to speak English to you, just instantly respond, "Quoi? Je regrette mais, je ne parle pas anglais! Parlez-vous français, monsieur?"

It can actually be kind of funny, haha! Japanese do have the bad habit of assuming that every Caucasian in the country speaks English, so if you're in a store or something and the clerk tries to speak to you in English because he thinks your Japanese won't be good enough, just shoot him down with that line and watch his reaction

To a Japanese native, how hard it is to tell which country the person is from their Japanese accent?

Most people know I'm from an English speaking country, but I've also gotten a lot of people thinking I'm Chinese... (I don't know more than 10 words of any language other than English and Japanese)

Grinkers Wrote:To a Japanese native, how hard it is to tell which country the person is from their Japanese accent?

People usually guess I'm either American or Scandinavian (Yeah I know, totally similar!) if that counts for anything.

Aijin Wrote:It can actually be kind of funny, haha! Japanese do have the bad habit of assuming that every Caucasian in the country speaks English

How did you know the OP is Caucasian? Is she? I thought all she said was she's American.

Anyway, I don't think people she has a problem with is that kind of person. They'll stop speaking English once they know she speaks Japanese. I don't think they're the English practice zealots who have the high and mighty attitude and wants to show off either. The OP said:

thistime Wrote:I've tried kind of ignoring them when they speak English and only engaging in conversation when they are speaking Japanese. I only respond in Japanese even when they use English. When they are having a hard time saying what they are trying to say in English, I try to say at every opportunity that they can use Japanese. My husband will say, "This is Japan, you can use Japanese" in a semi joking way. But nothing seems to work.

It doesn't make sense that the "I speak better English than other Japanese!" kind of guy keeps talking when the OP embarrassed them by ignoring them etc.

The OP is dealing with very very very rare and strange people, and she's facing them with unusually high frequency. There must be a reason she keeps running into such strange guys every time she meets a group of Japanese.

Honestly, I'm guilty of what icecream describes. Often when I meet a 日本人 in a social situation (frequently at my university), I will say "oh hey, I'm learning Japanese", they'll act all surprised and then I'll engage them in some basic conversation. Now bare in mind I've only been learning 10 months - if I'd been taught for 9 years with no opportunity to speak I'd be *dying* to chat to someone for a longer period..

Guess there are slight differences, in that:
1) Japanese always seem amazed/delighted someone is learning their language, and are always willing to help me practise. If they didn't want to, I wouldn't push it.
2) I wouldn't do it at the exclusion of the rest of the group.

The OP does sound a little negative; just speak to them in English for a while, give them their practise, then rejoin the group conversation. Obviously if everyone's chatting in 日本語 then surely the guy would be forced to switch back to that..

I can relate to the OP in some ways. I do feel like a lot of people in Japan try to use English with me even when it's really inappropriate.

But actually, in my case I don't think it's usually because people want to practice English. Usually I think that people realize that my Japanese is not perfect, so they're trying to think about making things easier or nicer for me. And, part of doing that is trying to use English. Now, I've been studying Japanese for almost five years, so a good amount of time people have a lower English ability than my Japanese ability, but they still do this.

So, it's sweet that they're trying to think about my feelings, but in reality they're completely missing what I'm actually feeling. And that is, I've studied Japanese for this long so that when I'm in Japan I can get by in situations when I need to speak Japanese. I like speaking Japanese. I know that a big part of Japanese culture is defining things as groups, and my group is 'foreigner', but I don't want to be constantly reminded that I'm a foreigner when there's no reason for it. I also know that a lot of people really do have the attitude that 'foreigners can't speak Japanese' (an entire class of my advanced students admitted to thinking this when my co-teacher asked). That plays a part, but it's ridiculous, and is rude.

But, since I realize that people are trying to be nice, I'm nice back.

It might be a good idea to get some other friends who don't want to practice English on you. It sounds like you're having problems with only one or two people. If you let them know you want to practice Japanese with them as much as they practice English with you and they don't oblige, there's no way to force them. Everybody has their hang-ups. If you can't move past it, then just move on.

Give them a link to the Mixxer or something. There's a time and a place for language exchange.

I don't know. I have heard English teachers complain before about strangers on the train who want to practice their English for free, but I never understood it. In the break room we spoke English and weren't getting paid for it.

As I said in my original post, I am not against helping people practice their English. If it carries on for 15-30 minutes then I am totally fine with it. But, I also don't want to go to a social gathering and end up playing English teacher the entire time. When I go to a party, I feel I should be able to relax and have a nice chat (like everyone else there is doing) not give a five hour English lesson. I am not saying, "How dare you speak English to me!" I'm just saying, I want to go out and relax a bit. And, at least in my case, it seems if I speak English to them even a little, it's like the spark that starts the flame that leads to the forest fire. No matter how much I try to include others to switch the conversation to Japanese or suggest they use Japanese or only respond in Japanese it's like they have a switch in their brains that says, "I am going to speak English tonight!!" and they will continue to speak English to me throughout the night no matter what.

You must be an exceptionally good conversationalist (or very hot). My chats generally last five minutes before they start bolting from boredom.

bodhisamaya Wrote:(or very hot).

Well...

jk

Can't really identify with this situation as I haven't encountered it, but:

1) if they're fluent in English, then you can have a nice chat - it makes no difference whether they use English or Japanese
2) if they're not fluent in English, then I'd assume they'd eventually become frustrated and switch back to 日本語? You don't have to "play teacher" - just speak fast with plenty of long words and obscure vocab (), and eventually they have no choice..

If they don't take the hints, guess you have to tell them. Maybe nicer to lie and say something "I'd rather just speak in Japanese tonight, because when I mix the two languages I get really confused...Japanese is so hard for us Westerners...".

Grinkers Wrote:To a Japanese native, how hard it is to tell which country the person is from their Japanese accent?

It's easy, but it just depends upon the country. Not a lot of foreigners come to Japan in general, and the ones who do are usually from a select few countries, so people only have experience listening to those few accents. Not many people will know what a Jamaican person's accent while speaking Japanese is, for example.

Chinese, Korean, and English are the ones people will recognize the most easily. I've listened to people of all different kinds of linguistic backgrounds speak Japanese, so for me personally I can easily pick out if the person's native language is German, French, Spanish, Russian, etc when they speak Japanese. The average person in Japan won't really know all the different accents that well though.

I'm not sure I understand how hard it is to be patient and just answer their questions. I mean, it's not like they are coming up to you and asking you to explain a particular past participle that gives them trouble, are they?

This happened to me so many times during my (sadly) short 5-month stay in Tokyo. Most of the people who spoke to me in English had really poor English, but I just answered their questions politely and spoke to them as I would anyone. They always seemed really grateful and it never lasted very long. Usually they'd start using Japan within 5 minutes, but some made it all the way to 10 or even 15 (once).

Really, I think a lot of you are making this out to be a far bigger deal then it is. Then again, maybe I am just grateful for all the Japanese people I met at University that allowed me to speak to them in Japanese even when my Japanese was awful.

magamo Wrote:Then you're in a very unusual situation. It's very rare for a Japanese person to want or need to speak English that bad. I'd say it's much less than one in a thousand. If anything, most Japanese would be scared if they have to speak English. There has to be a reason you attract those extremely rare people.

You must not go to many social events where there are foreigners present. I've had to go to a few international parties and bars due to work, and there are always some English practicers who glom onto me (both male and female). Japanese people go to those kind of social events with the express purpose of practicing English (or meeting foreigners).

I'm guessing the OP got back from an international xmas party before starting the thread.

Jarvik7 Wrote:I'm guessing the OP got back from an international xmas party before starting the thread.

No. I have actually never been to one of those parties and think they sound dreadful, personally. It was a party with my husband's work (well, the last two times anyway). I was the only foreigner there. But, they obviously knew my husband was married to an American.

I've encountered this issue many times in Japan over the course of a couple of years, in fact it crops up every couple of days. Based on this experience I think the reasons are:

* Kindness: Japanese (feel socially obliged or) have a genuine kindness in wanting to ease awkwardness faced in communicating, thereby switching to English as a means to sidestep the language barrier

* Practicality: most hakujin that I have witnessed in Tokyo (including myself, by self-observation) have limited Japanese production (speaking/pronunciation) ability or simply blunder away in English, and for a Japanese native speaker it therefore expedites matters to speak in English (even if English ability of Japanese person is worse, paradoxical as that sounds)

* Pride: Japanese love to show that they know a few English words (maybe this is a mark of sophistication?) and will often at least use 'excessive' katakana to this effect, or try out some English sentences

* Opportunism: Japanese can presumably take advantage of an opportunity when they see one to practice English. I have only encountered this in the mild sense of 'I'll practice a bit of English if that's ok' not 'I'm going to treat you like an English teacher'.

In my own case, I always attempt to speak Japanese and if my friend/colleague insists on replying in English do the following:

i. Reply back both in English then in Japanese
- I say the sentence in English, then again in Japanese
- the conversation invariably slows but usually digresses into useful tips about what expressions to use (in both English and Japanese)
- I have never felt the need to justify doing this and actually find it a good way to discipline what I'm thinking.

ii. Speak in Japanese with their reply in English
- I say (in Japanese) 'your English is good and I don't mind you practicing but I'm sure you won't mind me replying in Japanese too so I can try to improve'
- I then stubbornly use Japanese in my replies, only pausing to make minor corrections or hints (in English) where I think these could be genuinely helpful for their English. Usually and naturally enough they feel obliged to do the same.
- I have not lost friends in doing this

iii. if they are senior to you (eg at a dojo/work/in age)
- I usually follow their lead (ie if they speak English and are clearly comfortable doing so I use English and vice versa).

If someone were 'chasing after me' blatantly to speak/practice English they're probably an opportunist or have limited self-awareness and I'd adopt (ii) above. I have not yet had this situation arise.

For some reason my mind just drew the strangest parallel.

Interesting....

Edit: He has the right idea.

I'm sure it is annoying to have someone who insists on using english. And once you focus on this sort of thing it has a habit of bugging you more and more. Realistically though, how often does it happen, and does it really matter? If you refuse to speak english, it might look like you are snooty even though that is not your intention. Life is a short and temporary condition. My philosophy is to try not to worry too much about this kind of thing. If they want to talk english, humor them. I'm guessing since you live in Japan you have plenty of opportunity to speak japanese. Also if it is a function with some of your husbands colleagues, you should be careful as well, you don't want that person to get offended.

If I met a Japanese person at a party I must admit I might try and practice a little Japanese with them.

Actually I had this Japanese friend who lived in New Zealand. She went to a party and there was another Japanese person there. She started to talk with them in Japanese, but they answered in English and refused to speak Japanese. She thought that person was quite odd. If you met another American in Japan and they spoke to you in Japanese (assuming no one else was participating in the conversation) how would you react? (This is not really related to the original question I'm just wondering).

kazelee Wrote:For some reason my mind just drew the strangest parallel.

Interesting....

Edit: He has the right idea.

Soft Bank is the most popular cell phone company.
No Loan is a well known bank in Japan.
Pocari Sweat is the leading sports drink.
Cream Colon is a popular snack. There is also a chocolate flavor.
These are not English translations. They are the actual names written in Romaji.

thistime Wrote:Okay, so I know the title is weird, but here's my question. Anytime I go out with a group of people, there is always at least one person who sees me as their chance to practice English. I wouldn't mind if it only happened once in a while or if it only lasted for a few minutes, but it seems like it happens everytime and the person is determined to "take advantage of the opportunity". I've tried kind of ignoring them when they speak English and only engaging in conversation when they are speaking Japanese. I only respond in Japanese even when they use English. When they are having a hard time saying what they are trying to say in English, I try to say at every opportunity that they can use Japanese. My husband will say, "This is Japan, you can use Japanese" in a semi joking way. But nothing seems to work. I'll even try to leave and talk to other people and the person will follow me. I don't want to be rude about it and I understand where they're coming from, but just because they think it's a good opportunity for them to practice their English doesn't mean I am interested in helping them do so.

So, how do I stop the people who see me as their chance to practice English? Do you have any techniques or things you say to switch the conversation to Japanese and keep it there?

^ I can relate to this!!! Seriously, I can it's like I feel like it's a trap in a way! Like you have some people in Japan that hates it when foreigners can't speak Japanese and treat us like we're stupid!! But yet, some wish we can speak Japanese in Japan so it'd be easier but at the same time when we try to speak Japanese they're shocked and start speaking english. I can relate!!! :lol: On another note, I admit it I do get kind of annoyed too! But I also feel like the same people that want to practice english when they come to the states what do they do they hang out with other Japanese and speak only Japanese! Yep, that's what happens! I'm not saying all I'm just saying most! Personally, though if a person does not want to speak to me in Japanese and they're Japanese in the states I can feel it and I don't hang out with that person because I don't want them to feel obligated! But yeah, I can relate and I also feel like they depend on you in some way instead of self studying or using these resources like this site! But yeah, I prefer if you try to find a Korean person to hang out with that knows Japanese because they're not afraid to use all Japanese on you and they're like natives. Or taiwanese or chinese.

Perhaps the best answer for this is simply to make your Japanese so good they could never hold a candle to it in English.

If your JP isn't thoroughly communication-equipped yet, you're not going to LEARN much *new* Japanese by trying to force yourself to speak what little you can while making mistakes left and right. The more you improve at Japanese, the more it becomes your right to speak it in the country where it is a native language.

I agree with the poster who suggested you explain that when you speak English, you feel like you're doing work. But more than that, it's just a question of whether or not English is appropriate. If it's excluding other JP people who don't speak English, that's rude and problematic. If everybody speaks English well, it doesn't matter so much (at least to me). I do a volunteer eikaiwa group at a uni close to my house, and with those kids I never feel like there's anything wrong because it's the right TPO, even though I don't get paid.

To be honest, when I first got here and my JP wasn't so hot, I had the same problem as OP. I think I was upset about it because it was a constant reminder that my JP was not up to par, which I was and still am sensitive about. But since I became conversational in Japanese I don't think I've had this problem even once... people are usually relieved that I speak JP.

That doesn't mean that they won't stop speaking slowly and stupidly in fragments sometimes, which is more difficult to understand than if they would use full sentences at a normal speed, but I imagine that this will disappear as I learn more and appear more convincing. Some people are starting to ask if I'm half or was born in Japan now, so that's a good sign!

Good luck to all!

I've lived in Japan for about 4 months now. I used to get annoyed too. It doesn't really bother me as much anymore when people want to practice English. Mainly because my Japanese has improved so much. I don't really care if I speak Japanese all the time.

The only time I find this really annoying is when I'm a customer. If I order my meal perfectly comfortably in Japanese I don't want to hear broken English mumbled back struggling to ask me if I want it "for here or to go" etc.

I think you should try to relax and work on your patience. I know that I need to sometimes.

I think the suggestion a few people made to do a little bit of English with the person is probably a good idea.

Then, I would definitely not be rude and cut the person off. If you have spent much time living in Japan you will know that few things cast a bummer pall over a social gathering than bald-faced, deliberate rudeness and additionally no one will ever forget that you behaved rudely--whether or not that rudeness would be considered justifiable by American standards is totally moot as this is not America.

Instead, I would tell the person that you really feel the need to speak in Japanese in order to continue improving your Japanese ability so that you can function well here. That puts a certain amount of obligation on that person to honor your request and they will probably respond favorably, especially since you indulged them with some English conversation at the start.