You mention Sazh being reluctant. If she thought he might not fight, then saying something like だったらそこで見てろ ([if you won't fight] then stay there and watch) would work.

I guess I just can't see "[look] at that" from そこで instead of something like それを (and それを見ろ, since to me 見ていろ sounds like continuing to do something than just looking at it and then fighting). But I won't be seeing the scene until tomorrow, so I don't really know.

albion Wrote:You mention Sazh being reluctant. If she thought he might not fight, then saying something like だったらそこで見てろ ([if you won't fight] then stay there and watch) would work.

I guess I just can't see "[look] at that" from そこで instead of something like それを. But I won't be seeing the scene until tomorrow, so I don't really know.

Yeah, it's definitely a context thing... He seems to be one of those people who always fights, but always seems just about to whine about having to. Or maybe he is whining... I don't understand most of what he says, but I get that it's sarcastic or complain-y. Kind of a 'man, why do we always have to do this?' instead of 'man, why do -I- always have to do this?' you know?

At any rate, I'm looking forward to your take on the scene once you've seen it.

Hmm, now I'm pretty curious. I'll report back once I've seen the scene in a day or two (hopefully).

そこで見てろ means "watch from over there", not "look at that". There's no context that will make it mean "look at that". Don't let your feeling about what you think the line means override your understanding of the grammar -- context is sometimes necessary to figure out the exact meaning, but the particle で means to do an action at a location, it can't mark the object of 見る no matter what the context is.

yudantaiteki Wrote:そこで見てろ means "watch from over there", not "look at that". There's no context that will make it mean "look at that". Don't let your feeling about what you think the line means override your understanding of the grammar -- context is sometimes necessary to figure out the exact meaning, but the particle で means to do an action at a location, it can't mark the object of 見る no matter what the context is.

Google Translate thinks you are wrong.

そこで見てろ
=
Keep your eye there

While the translations are usually iffy at best, you've just said it could never be translated like that and it -was-.

I think we're splitting hairs here.

Japanese are very comfortable with ambiguous phrases.
Technically, I think both of you are right.

The phrase can mean:

"From over there, look at that!"
"Keep your eye there"
"Look over there"

The context will help decide what it means.

Japanese is not always so fixated on "exact" meaning the way we are in English. The same phrase can mean multiple things and the Japanese have no problem if you are not clear on which meaning it is.

By Google? A machine? You can't be serious.

Cham, you're making a common mistake for all language learners: assuming that things that are similar must be the same. Japanese is more precise than you give it credit for. You're job is to figure out how that precision is expressed.

あそこへ見てろ。
あそこで見てろ。

Those two sentences mean two things completely different, even if they seem similar now. Don't rest on your laurels.

Or, try to prove me wrong and find a case where で見る clearly means "look at."

wccrawford Wrote:Google Translate thinks you are wrong.

そこで見てろ
=
Keep your eye there

While the translations are usually iffy at best, you've just said it could never be translated like that and it -was-.

Iffy as in horribly incorrect and nonsensical in the context. Try reversing the translation and you get something completely different, which is also horribly wrong. Rely on your grammar book and not automated translations for particle usage. This is 初歩 stuff, and you've just shown how detrimental these translators can be for language learners.

wildweathel Wrote:By Google? A machine? You can't be serious.

Cham, you're making a common mistake for all language learners: assuming that things that are similar must be the same. Japanese is more precise than you give it credit for. You're job is to figure out how that precision is expressed.

あそこへ見てろ。
あそこで見てろ。

Those two sentences mean two things completely different, even if they seem similar now. Don't rest on your laurels.

Or, try to prove me wrong and find a case where で見る clearly means "look at."

I think you misunderstood what I said.
Those 3 meanings are NOT the same and can mean different things.

I was talking about the fact that, in Japanese, the same exact phrase can have more than one correct interpretation. The context will usually tell you which on is correct.

A very simple example would be:

"Watashi wa, chicken desu".

"Watashi wa <something> desu" can be used in a restaurant to order food. So in this case it's used to mean that you want to order chicken.

BUT.....the phrase can literally mean "I am a chicken". So if you are in a school play where the actors/actresses played animals, it would mean that you are a chicken.

Which intrepreation is correct? Well, both of them are.
It depends on which context you use them in.

The same phrase (same exact words) with 2 completely different (and correct) interpretations in Japanese.

chamcham Wrote:I think you misunderstood what I said.
Those 3 meanings are NOT the same and can mean different things.

I was talking about the fact that, in Japanese, the same exact phrase can have more than one correct interpretation. The context will usually tell you which on is correct.

A very simple example would be:

"Watashi wa, chicken desu".

"Watashi wa <something> desu" can be used in a restaurant to order food. So in this case it's used to mean that you want to order chicken.

BUT.....the phrase can literally mean "I am a chicken". So if you are in a school play where the actors/actresses played animals, it would mean that you are a chicken.

Which intrepreation is correct? Well, both of them are.
It depends on which context you use them in.

The same phrase (same exact words) with 2 completely different (and correct) interpretations in Japanese.

None of your three interpretations are correct. The only correct one is what albion had already said だったらそこで見てろ ([if you won't fight] then stay there and watch). Context is important in all languages, not just Japanese, but in this case we don't need it to understand the sentence. The grammar is completely unambiguous, since で can't be used to indicate direction. に and へ are even referred to as directional particles so I can't understand where the confusion is coming from.

Edit: I'm not sure why I mentioned に and へ, since you can't use them with 見る. The thing you're looking at should be marked with を. そこを見ろ is 'look over there'. そこで俺を見てろ 'watch me from over there'. If these two are correct there's absolutely no way そこで見てろ can mean anything other than 'watch from over there'.

Ryuujin27 Wrote:Back to FFXIII - I pre-ordered it from Play-Asia and it still hasn't gotten here yet. Anyone know the deal? Did they take too many pre-orders or something? For a while on their site it was saying up to a week to ship. Now it says 24hrs, but still nothing at my house.

I know I'm kinda late on responding to this but I'm not sure what's the matter with it. I pre-ordered mine on Thanksgiving, and I got the notice that it shipped very early Dec. 18th morning. I received my copy on the 21st, which was expected. I opted for UPS shipping, and even when I placed my order, it said the shipping time was 1-4 days. I'm not sure what your order details are, but depending on who you chose for shipping and when you placed your pre-order, it might take longer.

Plus it's the week before before Christmas Hope you get your copy soon though! Even though I understand about 2% of the game, it's really fun

Thanks to all for your responses (and sorry about the flamewar I unintentionally started )

About getting the game: I pre-ordered at yesasia.com and got it very fast (package left Hong Kong on Saturday, December 19th, and I received it on Monday, December 21st (though I paid extra for express delivery - I am a bit fanatic about that game )

One last question: Is there a way to make the game stop after each dialogue subtitle automatically? At the moment, I just press the PS button on the controller, which is not an optimal solution because I cannot hear the complete spoken line.

I also guess there is no setting to have every Kanji augmented with the reading?

@Offshore: Regarding only understanding 2%, I feel the same, but I have loads of fun - this is so much better than reading pre-digested sentences in my course textbook. Although it's way beyond my league, the words I look up on my way and the additional grammar I learn prematurely (like the command form) stick a lock better because the motivation is higher. I highly recommend this way to anyone!

I think you'll just have to put up with the dialogue moving along automatically. The only options for the subtitles are to turn them on and off and to turn the speaker's name on and off.

wccrawford Wrote:I think the originally 'Look at that!' is closer, since she wanted to call attention to the monster and wasn't trying to tell Sazh to stay out of her way or anything. She also isn't the type to brag about combat skill.

Quoting from memory:

サッズ 「たまったもんじゃねえな どうするんだ？」
ライトニング 「そこで見てろ」

He was asking her what to do about it. 「たまったもん（もの）ではない」 was a word I didn't know which threw me a little bit, but looking it up it's a stronger version of 「たまらない」. So I think it's him basically saying "this is too much to handle" and wanted to know what she was going to do, since he's basically depending on her now. (I think maybe he was hoping for a nice 「逃げよう！」 instead.) But all she says is "sit there and watch."

I don't think it's so much her bragging, rather that she's harsh on other people and won't go out of her way to help them. Sazh is only a civilian and not a proper soldier like she is, and her only response to him saying the other people wanted to fight was 「足手まといだ」, which seems to be how she views some of the other characters in general. They aren't really a proper team and she doesn't seem to really want/need him around (always walking off ahead and a bit later she seemed willing to just leave him behind) as much as he seems to need her help, and IIRC from Sazh's comment after that first battle ([父ちゃん　孤軍奮闘だ」) she doesn't seem to be paying much mind to him and would just let him go it alone.

To interrupt the conversation a little bit here, can I ask who here received FFXIII from play-asia? They still haven't gotten it to me, and I've e-mailed them asking them where it is and they have yet to respond. I'm surprised because I usually receive nothing less than wonderful service from Play-Asia. Why do they have to drop the ball with the game I'm dying to play?

Ryuujin27 Wrote:To interrupt the conversation a little bit here, can I ask who here received FFXIII from play-asia? They still haven't gotten it to me, and I've e-mailed them asking them where it is and they have yet to respond. I'm surprised because I usually receive nothing less than wonderful service from Play-Asia. Why do they have to drop the ball with the game I'm dying to play?

I got mine from Play-Asia. I had pre-ordered it LONG ago, though. They said they have trouble shipping this time of year but that they were trying to get everyone's FF to them by XMas... I think that was one of their newsletters. I got mine the Monday before XMas. (I think I upgraded my shipping, though.)

I'm waiting for the opposite. I ordered an American game and shipped to Japan. They said they shipped it over a week ago, but I haven't gotten it yet. Usually I get things within a week, but it's been almost 2.

I'm guessing Hong Kong's shipping services must be really slow this time of year?

wccrawford Wrote:

Ryuujin27 Wrote:To interrupt the conversation a little bit here, can I ask who here received FFXIII from play-asia? They still haven't gotten it to me, and I've e-mailed them asking them where it is and they have yet to respond. I'm surprised because I usually receive nothing less than wonderful service from Play-Asia. Why do they have to drop the ball with the game I'm dying to play?

I got mine from Play-Asia. I had pre-ordered it LONG ago, though. They said they have trouble shipping this time of year but that they were trying to get everyone's FF to them by XMas... I think that was one of their newsletters. I got mine the Monday before XMas. (I think I upgraded my shipping, though.)

Damn them. I pre-ordered mine the second day after the pre-orders opened.

And what's worse is on the site is says it was shipped on the 17th...

Ryuujin27 Wrote:And what's worse is on the site is says it was shipped on the 17th...

Mine was shipped on the 18th. It's probably not their fault. It's probably UPS' fault.

How was yours sent? Mine says it was sent by "Air Economy Bubble" or something like that.

Ryuujin27 Wrote:How was yours sent? Mine says it was sent by "Air Economy Bubble" or something like that.

It just says 'UPS' and gives a UPS tracking number.

Hmm, must've upgraded the shipping like you said. I think that one is faster, because I don't have a tracking number.

Ryuujin27 Wrote:How was yours sent? Mine says it was sent by "Air Economy Bubble" or something like that.

This is where they blow a huge bubble around the package (it's kind of like soap film but tougher) and then let it loose into the jet stream to float across to the US. It's a bit slower than UPS but much cheaper. The only downside is that very occasionally the bubble gets attacked by a passing seabird and the parcel falls into the Pacific. Hope that didn't happen to yours...

Lolzers. I checked a few sites to how much they'd hike the price on the Japanese version. The lowest price I could find was 90US. :O

Siiick!!!!

Or is that the actually cost of the game itself o.0 ? Naaah

kazelee Wrote:Lolzers. I checked a few sites to how much they'd hike the price on the Japanese version. The lowest price I could find was 90US. :O

Siiick!!!!

Or is that the actually cost of the game itself o.0 ? Naaah

It was 8000 yen brand new, so it's not really much of a hike at all. (Almost US$88 after conversion.)

http://www.amazon.co.jp/Final-Fantasy-XI...535&sr=8-2

Play-Asia jacked it up to $100, though. (I ordered early enough to get it for only $95.)

What? Is this something different then? Seriously I can't tell... box art is different and the ratings are very low.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%B9%E3%82%...B000FNQXEO

Quote:Play-Asia jacked it up to $100, though.

Check out some of the prices on Ebay >.<

国内配送料無料

国内、居たい