As I said, part of it is for self evaluation (not actively studying for it). I'll take a previous test to see which level I should apply for. That certification though will hold weight in my job. The US military pays extra money to its members that have fluency in certain languages. An example would be my co-worker who's fluent in Mandarin (and passed the DLAB for it) gets an extra 400 dollars a month. Another that's fluent in Spanish gets no extra money. Not sure where Japanese falls into this.

DoD DLAB is "Department of Defense: Defense Language Aptitude Battery"

Thanks, Nukemarine. That's interesting. I guess it's its own test, not like the Foreign Service Institute materials? Is it language-specific?

Passed 4級.

I got an email today from The Japan Foundation letting me know that I could check my results online:

Writing: 95/100
Listening: 71/100
Reading: 157/200
Total: 323/400

After the test I wrote up some crap about it; I was expecting to pass, but it's nice to know for sure and it'll be nice to have that certificate too.

I got the same email. Barely passed 2級.

文字・語彙　 79/100
聴解 59/100
読解・文法 117/200
総合点　　　 255/400

合格しました〜　

just got my results today and .... 合格！！！ギリギリけどね

breakdown:

kanji/vocab: 79/100
listening:48/100 (stupid far away not loud enough boombox)
grammar/reading: 119/200 (stupid, uh, me i guess)
total 246/400

i passed by 6 points!!! やった！！！
crap score but it wont matter after i pass 1kyuu. though i don't know if i'll have time to sit it this year.

Got my level 4 results yesterday! やった！

文字・語彙　100/100
聴解　9４/100
読解・文法　200/200

Total = 394/400

I guess I made 1 mistake in the listening section... I missed 400 by 1 mistake!...

And ofcourse, this is all thanks to resolve and anki!. Thanks resolve!

_Qbe_ Wrote:Passed 4級.

I got an email today from The Japan Foundation letting me know that I could check my results online:

Writing: 95/100
Listening: 71/100
Reading: 157/200
Total: 323/400

After the test I wrote up some crap about it; I was expecting to pass, but it's nice to know for sure and it'll be nice to have that certificate too.

Did they send a generic link to enter your examination number? If so, please put that link here. It can be useful for some people.

Just getting back into Heisig. Was going strong for a few months last year around this time but got out of it and lost it all. Starting over... (more or less).

Anyway, passed 3kyu this year with 94%. Pretty happy about that. Gonna shoot for 2 next year but the vocab is gonna be a bitch. Anyway, congrats to all!

Jawful, you are in a very similar situation to me last year. I passed 3kyuu with a similar grade and then attempted 2kyuu the year after and did ok in that too. the grammar is possibly the easiest section IMO. learn the limited rules (100 or so) and you'll be laughing!

good luck

Yorkii.

Just got my level 4 results and passed

文字・語彙　100/100
聴解　76/100
読解・文法　171/200
総合点 347/400

That's better than I expected, especially on the listening. Onwards and upwards!

Nukemarine Wrote:As I said, part of it is for self evaluation (not actively studying for it). I'll take a previous test to see which level I should apply for. That certification though will hold weight in my job. The US military pays extra money to its members that have fluency in certain languages. An example would be my co-worker who's fluent in Mandarin (and passed the DLAB for it) gets an extra 400 dollars a month. Another that's fluent in Spanish gets no extra money. Not sure where Japanese falls into this.

DoD DLAB is "Department of Defense: Defense Language Aptitude Battery"

The JLPT is NOT a test of practical Japanese suitable for everyday use.
So taking the practical approach to won't necessarily do you very good.

It is filled with words, grammar, phrases that you will NEVER see outside the exam.
In reality, it's just another impractical exam that everyone must "study to the test".
So if you're really looking to pass JLPT, you might as well go through all the useless grammar and vocab to pass the exam.

Like someone else suggested, just take a practice exam under the same timed conditions and see how you do.

chamcham Wrote:It is filled with words, grammar, phrases that you will NEVER see outside the exam.
In reality, it's just another impractical exam that everyone must "study to the test".
So if you're really looking to pass JLPT, you might as well go through all the useless grammar and vocab to pass the exam.

So- could you give some examples of words and phrases that you will NEVER see outside the exam?

chamcham Wrote:It is filled with words, grammar, phrases that you will NEVER see outside the exam.
In reality, it's just another impractical exam that everyone must "study to the test".
So if you're really looking to pass JLPT, you might as well go through all the useless grammar and vocab to pass the exam.

What a load of bulls**t
EDIT: Level 4 3 and 2 are absolutely awesome for getting good at japanese, the grammar is all very relevant and the vocab is stuff that you'll counter everyday.
I can see this being partially relevant to level 1 where there certainly are some obscure grammar points. But as for the vocab... it's not so rare.

The JLPT may not test your speaking and writing abilities, but what it does do, I think t does very well.

I'm going through a 2級　grammar book now and putting sentences into anki. I'm about 1/3 of the way through it, and I do seem to run across a lot of the stuff in Conan.

The only caveat I'd toss out from what I've seen so far (and how my teacher reacts to certain grammar bits I ask about) is that some grammar points are used primarily in written works, not in regular conversation, but that certainly doesn't make them useless.

And another...

I was reading the newspaper the other day and came across a sentence,

TBSNews Wrote:寒さをものともせず、ランナーたちが都心を駆け抜けました。

and thought the grammar bit をものともせず was kind of interesting. Then cracking the cover of my JLPT1 grammar book I noticed that it's in the book.

Think yorkii hit the nail on the head.

yorkii Wrote:The JLPT may not test your speaking and writing abilities, but what it does do, I think t does very well.

The question then is, what exactly does it do? I agree that all of the grammar points and vocabulary are highly relevant and a good foundation to build from. However, that doesn't mean I think it's a good test.

I once met a Korean guy who had passed level 2 and he couldn't hold a conversation with me in Japanese. After the amount of effort I'd put into Level 2, this astounded me and clearly demonstrates that something's wrong. One thing that's for sure is that for learners from languages unrelated to Japanese, the JLPT is a difficult test. Given the example of the Korean gentleman, it appears that it only tests receptive abilities and your productive abilities can be surprisingly close to zero.

Of course, the fact that the entire test is multiple choice doesn't help. It can become a game of playing the odds and skill full guess work.

I'm going to agree with Yorkii on this one. The stuff on the JLPT is stuff you encounter on a daily basis. Sure, some of the grammar and vocabulary are a bit formal and are things only used in writing or formal situations, but that doesn't mean that they're not used. Am I going to need them to sit down and have a conversation with my friend over a beer? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that you won't see them in the newspaper, on the TV or in other formal conversation.

And employers (both in Japan and the States..... and probably elsewhere as well) that are recruiting bi-linguals do often use that as a gauge for applicants. When I was looking for jobs last year (before I decided I wanted to come back to Japan for awhile), "Have you taken the JLPT?" and "What level?" were generally among the first questions that they asked.

But regardless... You'll learn a lot while studying for the test, and it's a GREAT motivator. I personally need something to help me focus my studies and give me a specific goal to work toward, and the JLPT has helped me a lot in that aspect. I'll agree it has some shortcomings in speaking and writing as well, but you can easily supplement your JLPT studies with things to help in those areas... and the exposure to all of the reading and listening will help you some in terms of learning what feels and sounds natural while learning.

shneen Wrote:And employers (both in Japan and the States..... and probably elsewhere as well) that are recruiting bi-linguals do often use that as a gauge for applicants.

Yes, I recently spoke with a potential employer who not only asked me which level I passed, but what score I got on it.

I am of the belief that high level passive language skills transfer pretty easily into active skills with a bit of practice. So the JLPT may say little about your speaking and writing skills, but it says a bit about your potential in those areas.

wrightak Wrote:I once met a Korean guy who had passed level 2 and he couldn't hold a conversation with me in Japanese. After the amount of effort I'd put into Level 2, this astounded me and clearly demonstrates that something's wrong. One thing that's for sure is that for learners from languages unrelated to Japanese, the JLPT is a difficult test. Given the example of the Korean gentleman, it appears that it only tests receptive abilities and your productive abilities can be surprisingly close to zero.

Certainly it does test a limited range of abilities like reading and listening, kanji reading ability and so forth, and not other areas as this Korean gentleman demonstrated, but surely his case is rare. I, as most people probably do take the grammar and vocabulary and then work this into my blog entries, conversations with coworkers, friends, etc. Maybe the guy just never had the need to output the language, or just didn't want to, maybe he just concentrated on passing the JLPT in the fastest time possbile without thinking about Japanese as a language, but as a test... I don't know. But I do know that it wasn't the JLPT's fault that he couldn't speak Japanese.

wrightak Wrote:Of course, the fact that the entire test is multiple choice doesn't help. It can become a game of playing the odds and skill full guess work.

This is a language. not maths. Thus there can be the occasion where there could be more than one correct answer to fill the gap. For you to have to then think of the possible answers and then choose something that is correct, but not something that they have chosen, and then get that question wrong...

But I know what you mean, they could do something like what the Kanzen Master books do where they for instance provide all the grammar points they want you to use in the following sentences and then you just fill the gaps... this is still not perfect, but would get people thinking more maybe...

The JETRO Business Japanese Test has an interesting system where there is an oral test for those that achieve a certain score in the main reading and listening test. Obviously the syllabus for the BJT is very different and not as useful as the JLPT. However, it costs 7000 yen compared with the JLPT's 5500 and for that extra 1500, having an oral test is a big plus point I think.

I'm not saying that anyone should take the BJT instead of the JLPT but I think it would be good if the JLPT took a leaf out of their book.

yorkii Wrote:This is a language. not maths.

It's interesting that you should say that because I might have said exactly the same thing to argue against using multiple choice!! When I studied languages at school, there were no multiple choice questions in the exams in those days (apart from the listening section maybe). You wrote sentences for answers and a person would have to sit down and use some judgement when marking the test. Obviously the downside with this is that it would cost a lot and there would be potential for arguments about what should be awarded marks and what shouldn't.

Don't get me wrong, I would still recommend everyone on this forum to take the JLPT. It's excellent motivation, it's good for getting jobs and the syllabus is highly relevant. However, I think there's a lot of room for them to improve the test and there's only so far you can go in using it to assess someone's Japanese abilities.

Only think I think that is no good about the JLPT is that it is only held once a year. This would maybe be a good time to bring up the J.Test again?

I'm with those who think it's a case of studying to pass the JLPT, not studying to know Japanese. The listening section in particular is wilfully overcomplicated.

Level 3 has "telegram" in the prescribed vocabulary list. Is that really useful in this day and age?

"It is filled with words, grammar, phrases that you will NEVER see outside the exam.
In reality, it's just another impractical exam that everyone must "study to the test".
So if you're really looking to pass JLPT, you might as well go through all the useless grammar and vocab to pass the exam."

Noooooooooo. That is rubbish :-)

The grammar and vocab that you see in the JLPT is, in fact, very practical. The problem with the JLPT is, in my opinion, that it doesn't include an oral test.

I managed to get to within 6% of a JLPT L1 pass with *relatively* bad oral skills - but, ironically, I could read the Japanese edition of Newsweek relatively easily, and I could understand what people were saying in pretty much all situations that didn't require specialist vocab.

So, the JLPT vocab is great if you want to converse in most regular situations (just get out and practice that vocab!), and even read the newspaper (JLPT Level 1). If you want to speak more colloquially then you'll need to supplement, and if you need to use specilalist vocab, then you'll also need to supplement.

I think that as long as you understand what the JLPT is (test of vocab, grammar, reading, listening) and is not (test of oral skills, specialist vocab, colloquial JP) then it's quite a good goal to go for *on your way to* full fluency. And it's also pretty good to put on your CV/resume.

Mark

brucegaston Wrote:Level 3 has "telegram" in the prescribed vocabulary list. Is that really useful in this day and age?

In a word - yes.

If it's good enough to be on NTT's homepage then it's good enough to be in the JLPT.

Try not to assume that a Japanese word and its English translation are exactly equivalent. You'll save yourself a lot of unhappiness.