I think this is a problem with my web browser and I am not sure how to fix this. So I was viewing the story for the kanji for healing 癒 and Katsuo said that Heisig uses it as in the nick of time 愈 and on my computer those are not the same. Maybe to you they are the same but I took a screenshot of what I see on my screen to show you. I believe it is a problem with my web browser and I would like to have that corrected so that I can see the correct kanji characters instead of the hanzi? I think it is displaying the hanzi characters instead of the kanji.

Here is the link:
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5821/nicky.png

They aren't the same so they shouldn't look the same to anyone.

Well I've had this problem before with the kanji for fed up 倦 (mine has fingerprint at the bottom and in the book it has scroll). Also for the kanji for miso 噌. In the book it has mouth + increasing.

Here is what I see:

Fed up:
http://yfrog.com/e9fedupp

Miso:
http://yfrog.com/6tmisop


Other people said that they see what is in the book but I don't and I'm wondering why. If everyone sees what I see then I won't worry about it. I just don't want to learn the wrong kanji O.O

Well, those are font issues -- the problem with something like 倦 is that it contains a kanji that had its form modernized for the Jouyou List, but the kanji itself is not on the jouyou list so there's some uncertainty about what the "correct" form is, and you see font differences. Same with 噌. But I think that's different from the OP because that's a totally different kanji, and 癒 is a Jouyou kanji.

With the Japanese fonts I use, the part under the enclosure in 'healing' 癒 is identical to the "nick of time" kanji 愈. People have mentioned here that their computers used either a Chinese font or a Japanese font that has some alternative forms.

I know that you can pick a different font in RevTK using a greasemonkey script created by Woelpad: here. (Download greasemonkey add-on for Firefox first.) Someone else can tell you whether you can set the browser font - I don't know. [edit: Firefox: tools/options/content for default font. You can pick fonts for Western, Japanese, etc]

There are a few threads discussing font styles and where to get download them if your preference isn't already loaded in your system fonts. I think I used Kyokasho for RevTK as it's a bit more like handwriting. Mincho is a common default font (newspaper looking). Meiryo is designed for computer display (kanji is good, but the kana is too bubbly for my taste). Or just play around with some text to see the differences.

[Katsuo]

spleenlol Wrote:...I think it is displaying the hanzi characters instead of the kanji.

Looking at the kanji in your first link, your computer appears to be using a Hiragino Mincho ProN font. (If it's a Mac; Windows presumably includes something similar.)

This is a recent Japanese font, and follows the new standard. If you change it to a Hiragino Mincho Pro font (no "N") the other version of the character will be displayed.

As these font differences appear frequently, it's worthwhile getting to know them. Once you get used to them it ceases to be a problem. Check out the block of characters in this post and the suggestion in the paragraph above it.

Katsuo Wrote:your computer appears to be using a Hiragino Mincho ProN font. (...) This is a recent Japanese font, and follows the new standard.

That is strange, I always thought that the "ProN" variants were Chinese versions. Was I mistaken?

[Katsuo]

They must be Japanese because they display all the Joyo kanji in the standard way.

Here's a quick way to check if a font is Japanese or Chinese: Highlight either of these two Joyo kanji characters (褐憎), set the font, then check which of descriptions below applies.

褐: The lower right-side is either (a) a bound-up spoon (=Japanese) or (b) a bound-up capital "L" with person "人" sitting on it (=Chinese).

憎: The upper right-side enclosure contains (a) "十" (=Japanese) or (b) vertical line with "horns" either side (=Chinese).

I may be wrong after all. On a Mac, "Hiragino Kaku Gothic ProN" shows some kanas (which should mean: font for Japan). The "Gothic Pro" has the version 7.11, and the "Gothic ProN" has the version 8 (should mean: a new version?). Both fonts were created by the same Japanese company.

But some kanjis look strange and modified, here are 2 samples from the FontBook application:
Pro:
ProN:

Edit: I'm a moron, I forgot to read carefully Katsuo's message.

[Katsuo]

Here's a potted recent history of kanji to help explain what's going on with these variations.

Before WW2 the number of kanji was not limited, and also there were more complex characters and variations than now. This made studying and reading very difficult.

Just after WW2, in order to achieve universal education and literacy, the government strictly limited the number of kanji to 1,850, and also simplified and standardized their forms. This set was called the "Toyo Kanji".

The reforms achieved their aims but some people were not happy ("Hey, you've abolished my name/ town's name/ favourite character/ etc"), and so some characters were reintroduced. In particular, in 1981 the set was expanded to 1,945 characters and renamed the "Joyo Kanji". One big difference with the Joyo kanji is that, unlike the earlier Toyo kanji, characters outside the set are also permitted.

So the following question arises about the non-Joyo kanji: They were not simplified like the Toyo kanji because there was no need to do so – they weren't being used at all. But now that they are being used again, should we simplify and standardize them to bring them in line with the Joyo kanji, or should we use their traditional forms? It seems to me the older (Pro) fonts were more for simplification and the newer (ProN) fonts tend to prefer traditional shapes.

(Incidentally the Joyo kanji is due to be reformed again next year, i.e. 2010).

So I ended up using that greasemonkey script to change it. I was just curious do any of you use firefox and if so what are the fonts that you chose from tools->options->font? The greasemonkey script works but it makes it all really bold which I don't really like.

So Katsuo do you think I should just go learn both variants? I might just do that and change my font back to what I had it if you think it would be worthwhile to know both forms. Will the new joyou set mess me up? I mean like are there going to be a lot of new kanji or different variants that I need to be well informed of?


Thanks for all of your help everyone!

[Katsuo]

spleenlol Wrote:So I ended up using that greasemonkey script to change it. I was just curious do any of you use firefox and if so what are the fonts that you chose from tools->options->font? The greasemonkey script works but it makes it all really bold which I don't really like.

When studying handwriting I prefer to use a kyokasho font (but I don't use greasemonkey).

Quote:So Katsuo do you think I should just go learn both variants?

These variants occur outside the Joyo kanji, so the characters are not so common. It's useful to be able to recognise both variants, but not necessary to be able to write them, I think.

Quote:Will the new joyou set mess me up?

It shouldn't cause too many problems. Most of the two hundred or so new characters are in fairly common use (hence their inclusion in the list). I've made some spreadsheets with details of the expected characters (click "Website" by my avatar and follow the links).

mypapa12 Wrote:"Gothic ProN"