Hi everyone. Hoping I can find help here where the internet at large has failed me. I'm preparing for the JLPT and have been taking practice tests from past years. There are often questions where I must choose between ぐらい and ごろ, and based on the given answers I thought I finally had them figured out...but after googling for a bit it seems I had it completely wrong.

Which would I use for a period of time? さんじゅうっぷん ごろ？ ぐらい？
Which would I use for a specific time? さんじ ぐらい？　ごろ？

Am I over-simplifying it? There are a couple of great explanations of the differences between them online, but their explanations seem to be at odds with the answers to the past tests. I am using past tests from JLPT.biz. The site isn't working for me right now, or I'd post specific examples. If anyone can sum this up for me, perhaps as it applies to the JLPT4 level specifically, I would really appreciate.

ありがとうございます(in advance)

As far as I know:

For a length of time / an amount of objects:
九時間くらい　百匹くらい

For a specific time:
九時ごろ　三時四十五分ごろ

Is there any difference between ぐらい / くらい ?

Right　ごろ　means when something will happen. ３時ごろ行きます。
ぐらい　means how long something will take ３時間ぐらいかかります。
Though ぐらい is also used for when something will happen a lot I don't think it is technically correct grammar so ３時ぐらい行きます would also be quite common in spoken Japanese.

I think...

bombpersons Wrote:Is there any difference between ぐらい / くらい ?

Nope. It's just a matter of preference and what precedes it since that usually affects the sound of the consonant. 100% of the time I use ぐらい cause I roll like that, G-UNIT

thistime Wrote:Though ぐらい is also used for when something will happen a lot I don't think it is technically correct grammar so ３時ぐらい行きます would also be quite common in spoken Japanese.

Yeah, it depends on how prescriptive you want to be -- even JSL, published in the late 80's, mentions the use of ぐらい in place of ごろ as something that native speakers do.

Son, get yo'self the Dictionary of Basic Japanese grammar.

[Removed by 風]

Or you could, you know, buy an actual paper copy...

IceCream Wrote:ぐらい is used for "around" a time. So, 三時ぐらい would be "around 3 o'clock"
so, you could say something like, i left around three o'clock.

ごろ・ころ is used for a time-specific event. So, you often hear something like, 子供のころ... when i was a child.

So, you wouldn't say 子供ぐらい, because, "around when i was a child" wouldn't make sense often. But, you could say, "13歳ぐらい" ... around when i was thirteen / when i was about 13.

However, you would still much more often hear "13歳のころ", because nobody really cares about the exact age you did something, whether you were 13 or 14, or somewhere around there. １３歳のころ is, when i was 13, which is a much more streamlined concept of how to say it.

if anyone could confirm this explanation, id appreciate it, because i might be wrong.

You explained it exactly how I would have (if I wrote as succinctly as you).

Thank you for your help everyone. I feel like I'm coming to understand things a bit better. I wanted to post the question from the 2003 JLPT Level 4 test that started this whole thing for me. I still don't understand the answer they give.

30分_____まちましたが、バスは来ませんでした。

From everything I've read here, I would think that ぐらい would be the best answer, as some have said that ごろ can't be used for a period of time. However, the test answers say it should be ごろ. Perhaps someone could explain this for me. I'm looking for that ah-ha moment where this annoying little issue will click for me. Any help would be appreciated, once again.

I'd say you're right. It should be ぐらい not ごろ。But, maybe I'm missing something too. I've done some hunting around too and everything I've been able to find says the same thing ごろ for a point in time ぐらい for a length of time. Hmm...

Is there any chance that there's an error in the test papers? That should definitely be ぐらい.

Why was my link removed? This site has an entire sub-forum dedicated to copyright infringement and the Wiki has a direct link to a shared version of KO2001.

Anyway... if anyone wants an upload of one of the grammar dictionaries, just e-mail me.

pm215 Wrote:Or you could, you know, buy an actual paper copy...

You could, if you wanted an inferior resource. I have a paper copy but it can't compete with an ebook in DjVu format. And I was only trying to help >_>

harhol Wrote:Why was my link removed? This site has an entire sub-forum dedicated to copyright infringement and the Wiki has a direct link to a shared version of KO2001.

Not quite. True, in that forum we're coordinating the placing of copyrighted material into another format, google spreadsheets for the most part. However, access to those spreadsheets on google are not open to all. There's been a gentleman's agreement that those that are given access to copyrighted material provide token proof that they own the book.

Now, can we stop someone from buying a book, getting access to the spreadsheet, then posting that for all? Nope. We can't stop them photocopying their book and leaving it at the doorsteps of every house either. Still, Fabrice has been fairly hands off about us linking to sites that can provide pirated material, but not to link directly to the pirated material. If the Wiki is pointing directly to such stuff, it's likely to be removed.

In your case, you're offering people to contact you personally to get access to the material. You've taken the problem off of Fabrice and put it on yourself. So all is well, unless you give it to the wrong person looking for evidence against you. Not likely, but again, it's on you.

Basically, yeah, we're hypocrites, but we feel justified being so. Plus, after two years, I don't think Fabrice has experienced any issues from copyright holders with exception of one person. In that case, it dealt more with pulling Spanish keywords from a RTK program for people to use with a greasemonkey script.

harhol Wrote:Why was my link removed? This site has an entire sub-forum dedicated to copyright infringement and the Wiki has a direct link to a shared version of KO2001.

Anyway... if anyone wants an upload of one of the grammar dictionaries, just e-mail me.

pm215 Wrote:Or you could, you know, buy an actual paper copy...

You could, if you wanted an inferior resource. I have a paper copy but it can't compete with an ebook in DjVu format. And I was only trying to help >_>

I wouldn't be too upset, kazelee's choice I presume. Fabrice feels similarly, he doesn't go out of his way to remove this kind of stuff, but reserves the right to whenever he feels like it, I imagine. Depends on the... evanescence of the p2p discourse. I think posting direct links is fairly rare, kind of a 'don't ask don't tell' thing, especially if it's something you could just as easily hint at or if it's something really commonly available to 'acquire'... Anyway, I think it's a good idea to keep up the veneer of non-piracy even if it's just a shared lie. ;p

OK, no worries.

harhol Wrote:Why was my link removed?

I see this question a lot when I remove a link. The simplest answer is that it's in the best interest of the forum. I've sent a more detailed email to you.

Tobberoth Wrote:Is there any chance that there's an error in the test papers? That should definitely be ぐらい.

That wouldn't be a big surprise.