Yeah, I'm trying to wrap my head around what ￥150,000 or so worth of television equipment would be... unless he means an actual, rather high quality television? But it's probably just extremely high fees on equipment that doesn't actually cost that much to discourage this kind of behavior.

It should be illegal to charge more than what the television is worth in fees... IMO.

Why rent a TV anyway? I bought my 32" HDTV for 7万 in April and just sold it on Saturday for 5万, with another offer of 4.5万 on standby. I paid 2万 to "rent" a brand new TV for ~7 months.

At this point, it's not a "gaijin vs japanese company" thing but rather "how do we want business' in our society to offer fair services to us" kind of thing.

Anyone can argue, yes he had a contract and therefore should pay it. But at the same time, we can argue that such a contract goes against common sense and is therefore out to screw over the common person.

Think about it like this--if it was a one to one deal or a one to small bussinesss contract, there would be room for negotiation. the fat that there is not because it is a big and powerful comapny makes it unfair. Ever a company as big as this should allow room for people with tough times....

...which the company did by allowing a payment plan for the 200000 yen.

This isn`t the RIAA suing a guy 650,000 dollars for downloading 30 songs. That guy never signed any contract with the RIAA, yet he`s being sued to death. That could be considered as unconstitutional punishment (ie. excessive punishment for the crime committed). In this case, the appropriate form of punishment isn`t exactly written in stone in law books.

As for AU, unless I am mistaken, all of the fees and penalties should be displayed in the contract, or should be explained to the customer clearly during purchase. At least, when I went to buy my AU keitai at Yodobashi in Shinjuku, I paid 1 yen for the cellphone (2 year contract), and the seller went to enormous efforts to explain me (a guy who cannot speak much japanese) all the costs and fees implied in the service, and its cancelling. We can be as "moral" as we want in this forum, and debate it to death, but once you sign that contract, there`s no turning back. People are often careless and just scribble their names in every paper, without realising the huge risk involved (I am not saying this was the case of the OP, because we all know that shit happens). People become indebted to banks in the most ridiculous ways, by asking for more credit than they can pay back.

This whole "developed" world runs on signatures and paper contracts. If it`s written in paper, and you signed it, we can feel angry at big corporations, but they are only taking advantage because the guy who signed it allowed them to. Whose fault is it?

I do sympathise with the OP, and hope everything turns out for the best for him. Still, this serves as a warning to all of us. Maybe we can get away with it... but are we the kind of people who just sign contracts and do not respect them? Would we do these things in our home countries?

^ Don't get a phone on contract if if you don't fully understand the terms & conditions beforehand. Almost all policies will clearly specify the minimum length of the contract and how many days' notice is required to cancel.

Mobile phones companies may charge ridiculous rates, but so do banks, ISPs, credit card companies, etc. And you don't need a mobile phone, particularly one on an expensive contract. They are a luxury after all, especially during overseas travel (OP).

just do what i do and go without a cellphone... save the money and the hassle.. or, get a prepaid phone from softbank...

harhol Wrote:And you don't need a mobile phone, particularly one on an expensive contract. They are a luxury after all, especially during overseas travel (OP).

Untrue- in this day you do need a cell phone. I need one for my job, else they can't contact me. For travel, yes- a luxury, but not for living.

I bought my phone (softbank) up front through a group purchase with my company- a crappy little flip-phone for 1万2千 (usually twice that price)。Then I pay per month and can cancel the contract anytime. My girlfriend will have to pay the remaining price left on her phone (halfway through the contract) but will not have to pay anything else, from what she tells me (docomo).

Jarvik7 Wrote:..which is exactly why it's hard for foreigners to get cellphone plans /w campaign discounts or to rent good apartments.

How hard is it to go cancel your contract? It cost me 2700Y and 5 minutes to cancel my AU contract early and that was with a free phone (when phones were still free).

Exactly the problem: It costs money to cancel it. In fact, it cost me MORE money to cancel my account than a month of using it.

I'm not stupid, I understand how contracts like this work. They make money by forcing you to use their stuff for a long period, by cancelling your contract early you are cutting their profit. However, that is probably at the same time the biggest reason why foreigners go back without paying, which we have to assume they lose even more by.

If I could have cancelled for free, I would have done it. In fact, I would even have been perfectly fine with returning the phone, though I doubt they would want that cheap PoC back.

@Tobberoth:
They give you a better price or a free phone if you agree to be bound by a contract of 1-2 years. If you break that contract then there is a penalty. They don't force you into a contract. There are plenty of prepaid or non-contract plans too. Why should a cancellation fee be only one month's bill or free? That is complete nonsense. It isn't a service charge, it's a penalty. It's also something you agreed to when you signed up.

It is perfectly fair and not predatory.

This is another case of people not trying to see from the opposite perspective. Customer A signs up for a 2 year contract, so his monthly bill is 1000Y cheaper per month than it would be on a monthly plan and 2000Y cheaper than a prepaid plan with similar usage and options. Customer A then quits the contract after only 8 months. You are now out the 8,000-16,000Y that was discounted over that period. Cell companies are willing to make less money per month if they are guaranteed to be making that money for a long period of time. By cancelling early you are screwing them out of that money and it makes sense that there is a penalty.

If you don't like this concept, signup for a monthly plan or prepaid instead. Just don't expect any campaign discounts. If you want to steal from the phone company, fine. Just at least admit that you are also screwing over other gaijin at the same time and don't try to pretend it's moral.

To use the previous train analogy, it's like buying an Osaka-Kyoto shinkansen ticket but hiding in the bathroom until Tokyo, because you think it's not fair that Tokyo is farther away.

captal Wrote:It should be illegal to charge more than what the television is worth in fees... IMO.

He never gave us a breakdown of much much was charged for each item so I can't say if the cost is outrageous, but the cost of replacing the TV is more than the shelf cost of a TV. It costs them labor to get another unit delivered to them, get it into the system, etc etc. There is also the penalty fee aspect for "stealing" the equipment...and interest.

The situation sucks for the OP, but it is what happens when you are irresponsible.

Quote:Turns out I owed 200,000 yen total after they charged me for some television equipment i rented from them my ex girlfriend never returned like i asked her to.

Interesting...

And here I had this epic rebuttal to Jarvik's post all ready and waiting.

Glad things aren't as bad now, though.

Jarvik7 Wrote:The situation sucks for the OP, but it is what happens when you are irresponsible.

Agreed.

However, you are reimbursing the company for the full value of a TV that is no longer worth its full value (ie, my HDTV I just sold- I can't get 7万 for it just because I paid 7万) That is penalty enough, which is one reason why I said I think it should be illegal to charge more than the cost of the TV.

The library I used to rent from as a kid didn't charge you more than the price of the book in late fees (or perhaps you paid late fees for a month, after which you paid the full price of the book- something like that). I like that concept. This happened to me once, and the cool part was I eventually found the book and took it back and they gave me some money back. Of course I was like... 8, so I didn't pay the fees to begin with, and I only remember it because my parents let me keep the money they gave back

Cell phone companies are making a killing on extra fees- what is it to send an international text message in Japan- at least 100 yen? In Australia it was the same as a local text, so clearly it's not costing the company heaps more money, yet in Japan (and America) it costs a lot more. I'm sure there are plenty of examples where cell phone providers are making far more than what it costs them to provide the service. But it is in the best interest of the cell phone companies to keep these rates high, and they are basically an oligopoly since not many companies have the resources to build the needed infrastructure (not to mention being wasteful).

The options in Japan as a consumer are limited- use a cell phone at high rates, or don't use one.