漫--"Loose".. actually seems to be used most of the time in "manga".. in fact, I can't find a definition anywhere that coincides with loose.
慢--"ridicule"? ALWAYS seems to deal with conceit or chronic medical issues.

a. I don't have much of a mental image to associate the sun, net and crotch to "mandala", let alone to work a mandala into stories.. anyone have a better primitive for where it's used?
b. wtf was heisig thinking with these two? I think I'll have to alter the keyword in both cases, it's so off the mark..

give them different keywords if you need to. For the first one manga would work as a keyword cos thats the word I see it in most often (and I don't even read manga!)

For the second take you're pick so long as it's something appropriate.

Using Nelson Mandela for the sun/net/crotch primitive worked well for me.

For the "慢/ridicule" kanji you can use the Chinese meaning "slow" instead, which according to Jisho seems appropriate. Uh, I guess I'll just paste my story here:

In Chinese this simply means "slow", which works well for Japanese as well, if you distinguish {1067}; so I use "slow-witted" as a (not entirely accurate) connotation here. Story: #Slow# is your *state of mind* when you draw a *mandala* as a meditation exercise. (And to connect this, having a slow mind can get you ridicule, of course.)

注意散漫 - loose seems to be an appropriate interpretation here
And I think you're missing the forest for the trees if you can't fit the idea of "loose" into the word 漫画.

Mandala wasn't gonna do nothin' for me, either, so I chose to rename the element as "hipster". Sun + eye in this context = ironic plastic sunglasses, while crotch is there to signify how much of a dick he is. Worked quite nicely! Therefore, the state of mind of a hipster is one of constant ridicule, and water splashing on him will likely knock loose his cheap, ironic shades.



What a douchebag.

The actual, real life meanings of those two kanji probably aren't a huge deal just yet, imo. Plenty of kanji differ dramatically from their Heisig keyword meaning when in their natural habitat anyway.

漫　can mean "loose" as in vague, imprecise. See 漫然、散漫. Dictionary gives plenty more: 漫ろ, 漫歩,漫談...

I didn't have an EFFING clue what a mandala was, even after looking it up in a dictionary. Therefore I used gondola, since I was already thinking of a word that rhymed like that anyway. The sun is shining down on two lovers sitting in the back of a gondola, the man's eyes are on the woman's crotch (or the other way around), the gondola paddler pushing the boat merrily through a river in some Italian town, or wherever gondolas are found in the world.

For "loose" my story was simple: if the boards in the gondola's frame are loose, water will come into the boat.

For "ridicule," I tried to imagine some stereotypical lower/middle class New Yorker who, upon seeing his neighborhood flooded to accommodate a rich couple who wanted to pass through in their gondola, got upset. The New Yorker guy's state of mind is so irate that he's ridiculing them from the shore, throwing insults as well as bits of trash in their direction.

I don't worry too much about altering the keyword meanings if I have to, and the primitive meanings even less. Although, when I alter a keyword meaning, I usually check both a kanji dictionary and the keyword index of RTK to see if I won't run into problems later on. Sometimes it's just about what makes sense to me. For instance, I kept getting 罰 and 刑 mixed up and when I went to the kanji dictionary, they both meant the same thing. So I went back and completely changed 罰 to mean "punishment" and 刑 to mean "penalty" because to me "punishment" implies something someone is being punished for (the words). "Penalty" has a connotation of just the penalty alone (two hands chopped off w/sword) and no cause to give the penalty meaning.

Gondola and hipster are excellent ideas, thanks.

sorry to necro, but it seems like 'mandala' is actually what the primitive Kanji means, which is why he chose it. However, it's a terrible primitive for mnemonics.

Thanks for the hipster idea. It's perfect.

慢 - We ridiculed the state of mind of the hipster as he typed away on his mac in starbucks.

漫 - The water shrunk the hipster's loose shirt.

Haha!

Are there any other occurrences of this primitive later on?

I actually like the mnemonic because both kanji have "man" as the on-yomi.

If only that worked for me...

[Katsuo]

"Mandala" gets about forty million Google hits so could be worth knowing. Check out Google images if you're not sure what a mandala looks like. I memorized this primitive by imagining Nelson Mandela wearing a mandala-patterned shirt (he does have a penchant for colouful shirts).

”Ridicule" is a strange choice of keyword for 慢 (ridiculous, even). I changed it to "proud".

zachandhobbes Wrote:Are there any other occurrences of this primitive later on?

After nos. 829 & 830 曼 doesn't appear again till RTK3.
2100 曼 "mandala" (as in 曼荼羅, まんだら, the Japanese word for mandala).
2359 蔓 "tendril", つる
2811 鰻 "eel", うなぎ
2998 饅 "bean jam", (饅頭 is manju)
not RTK 鬘 "wig", かつら

P.S. The above all have on-yomi "man", so mandala helps out there.

Actually I didn't have a problem with the keyword being obscure, I mean we've had Japanese Judas Tree and Palownia already - it's just that it made for terrible mnemonics.

I could just go back and brute force those two into my mind, but the story will not stick no matter what I try if I use Mandala.

zachandhobbes,for mandala you can use the mnemonic "looking at his crotch all day"(sun on top-eye looking downward towards crotch),that seems to work for me.besides,im past 1500 and haven't seen it elsewhere except in loose,ridicule.Heisig will use a lot of annoying primitives later on so you will have to deal with changing their names and creating your own images

Based on this line from Wikipedia: "In common use, mandala has become a generic term for any plan, chart or geometric pattern that represents the cosmos metaphysically or symbolically, a microcosm of the Universe from the human perspective."
I turned the "mandala" primitive into "universe." It seemed to work for me...

曼　is actually the マン　in 曼荼羅, sooo... if you're ever going to be using that word in Japanese....

Plus, it makes the readings easy to remember.
慢
鰻
饅
漫
all have the on reading マン

EDIT: I just noticed that somebody already mentioned that...

Ugh guys, you're really screwing me here...

Now there are all these good reasons to use Mandala, but the stories are just not there.

Tell me, what the hell is a good story for
慢 [State of mind... Mandala]

whenever I #ridicule# myself for not remembering this kanji, I try to alter my *state of mind* by staring at a *mandala*

OK, that is a terrible story.

[Katsuo]

I possibly changed things too much for my stories to be of use to others, but anyway:

New Keywords:
829 慢: Proud = Freud (state of mind) + Mandala
830 漫: Casual = water + Mandala

New Primitives:
State of mind => Sigmund Freud, who is probing the state of mind of the other part of the kanji (which I usually picture lying on his psychiatrist's couch).
Mandala => Nelson Mandala (Nelson Mandela wearing a mandala-patterned shirt)

Story/ Images:
829. Proud: Freud is so proud that his new patient is Nelson Mandala that he decorates his surgery in mandalas to make sure everyone knows.
830. Casual: "That's why I always wear casual clothes", says Nelson Mandala after a protester throws a bucket of water over him.

If you are a monk sitting cross-legged all day with your third eyechakra glowing while meditating on a perfect universe (mandala), the state of mind that desires to ridicule fades away

zachandhobbes Wrote:OK, that is a terrible story.

Ha; it was meant to be tongue in cheek. It's late, so maybe it wasn't as funny as I thought it was.

zachandhobbes Wrote:OK, that is a terrible story.

A tourist in a boorish state of mind stops to ridicule every mandala he sees on a tour through India.

Ridicule:his state of mind was ridiculed for looking at his crotch all day.
Loose:i picture an anime/manga girl with a loose bikini in the water and everybody staring at her crotch all day