Recently changed my OS and all my programs to their respective Japanese counterparts aswell as my Iphone and my DS.

Gotta say... it's like Mcdonalds, I'm lovin it.

I have minimal problems understanding menus, options or screens I need to read and being a seasoned pro at using PC's I know well what does what so I'm loving learning all these particular phrases in Japanese.

It really feels like Japanese is being integrated into various other parts of my life atm so this feels like a really comfortable step which is the way it should be.

It forces me to read Japanese lots because I'm always on the computer. Definitely great for putting me in Japanese mode. Highly recommended once you've finished KO.

Just out of interest, which OS are you using?

I have been wanting to do this for a while, but being on XP I don't have the ability to just change the language of the entire system (I think)

Maybe I will eventually just have to take the plunge, get Windows 7 and force myself to like it.

I'd say a Mac if he has an iPhone. Macs are easy to switch to Japanese. Ubuntu is very good too, just go to the language settings and activate the Japanese checkbox, all the required packages will be downloaded easily.

As for Windows, I don't really know, the last time I tried to install Japanese, it was on a Windows 2000 machine and was painful. I hope Windows 7 is more friendly now.

English is the language used in the computer world. Using an OS in Japanese is like reading the Japanese translation of a novel originally written in English: even if you understand it perfectly it will never be as satisfying as the reading the original.

And it's more motivating to use Japanese for things that wouldn't be possible without it.

@nyanda: Vista. *shudders*. There was a link posted to a brilliant application that enables you to change the whole OS to whatever language you like if you don't have Vista Ultimate which is apparently the only version capable of such a feat.

@mypapa12: Apple make really solid products. I only wish I could afford a Mac. I see absolutely no reason other than greed that microsoft built the functionally out of versions lower than Ultimate (stupid name) on PURPOSE by remove the button that enables you to do it.

@codexus: True but local versions are used where you are in the world. Another reason I see it as useful is because it gets me used to computer terms in Japanese so I'm more likely to learn the computer related collocations of the vocab I encounter whilst using it. So i'll be able to describe tasks on the computer to a Japanese person in words they will be familiar with

@mypapa12 I try to always use Japanese Windows. From my experience, here is what I know.

Windows XP you have to get the Japanese version to install.

The Dell OEM version of Vista that comes with new computers allowed me choose which language I wanted to install. (I bought it in Japan though)

Windows 7 upgrade would not allow me to upgrade from English Vista to Japanese Windows 7. So I had to do a clean install to Japanese Windows 7.

@mypapa12 Ubuntu is great when it comes to choosing a language!

@Codexus: I agree that English is the main language of the computing world, and I've seen too many bad French translation of computer terms. But having an OS in Japanese gives you a good feeling of being immersed in another world. Of course if I was in Japan, I wouldn't do it as I would have a real world around me, but it's not the case and I'm stuck where I am right now

@mezbup: I hated Apple products for a long time without knowing why, but one day, a friend of mine showed me how to create a graphical application (with the "Cocoa" framework) and I was stumped that it could be so clean and elegant to do. He also showed me that you could technically write "just one" application and put all the languages you want in this application without too much of a hassle, that's why I prefer Mac applications right now (even though Linux and Windows have equivalent ways of doing that with the Qt framework for example).

I also wish I could afford a mac, and if they are really that easy to change language in then that's just another reason to try and get one.
One day... One day...

mezbup Wrote:It forces me to read Japanese lots because I'm always on the computer. Definitely great for putting me in Japanese mode. Highly recommended once you've finished KO.

what is KO?
?

frlmarty Wrote:

mezbup Wrote:It forces me to read Japanese lots because I'm always on the computer. Definitely great for putting me in Japanese mode. Highly recommended once you've finished KO.

what is KO?
?

2001.Kanji.Odyssey

I used to have Japanese on my laptop (Vista) and also changed the language of programs like Firefox, etc... however I soon found it not to be such a good learning tool as a lot of things are in katakana English, and a lot of the words you see on a computer can be quite program-specific.

But for exposure to kanji, it's a good idea.

Nyanda Wrote:I also wish I could afford a mac, and if they are really that easy to change language in then that's just another reason to try and get one.
One day... One day...

I agree that Macs can be expensive, but there are some which are cheaper, like the MacMini (which was the first Mac that I bought and later gave to my mother). Well, I'll stop being a fanboy now, it's annoying

b0ng0 Wrote:I used to have Japanese on my laptop (Vista) and also changed the language of programs like Firefox, etc... however I soon found it not to be such a good learning tool as a lot of things are in katakana English, and a lot of the words you see on a computer can be quite program-specific.

But for exposure to kanji, it's a good idea.

Great to improve your katakana reading speed. It's not like everything is 100% katakana though despite the fact there is a lot of it. I don't see it as a learning tool at this point, I see more it as a transition into a different but comfortable environment.

Given I subvocalize everything I read... everytime I open a link in a new tab in firefox I'm drilling that phrase into my brain something chronic hahaha. Same with the Japanese version of "save as..."

I now visit facebook, youtube and hotmail all in Japanese too. I'm always on my computer so it really keeps me in Japanese mode xD

The best thing about it is you can really impress your friends with your utter Japanese fluency when they see you using a fully Japanese OS (little do they know, you used it so much before in English that you know what all the menus and buttons do regardless what language they are written in XD)

I changed my OS into Japanese a few months ago on my Macbook and my iPhone. It's helped quite a lot with learning computer-related words and also with reading katakana and some kanji. Though I also am so used to where everything is that I often don't need to read it. Except when an error occurs it's really annoying because I'm forced to read through the whole message in Japanese even if I'm trying to get something done quickly.

What I like a lot though is that by default a lot of websites I visit are now in Japanese, even some random ones I did not expect! So that's really helped my reading a lot I think.

mezbup Wrote:@nyanda: Vista. *shudders*. There was a link posted to a brilliant application that enables you to change the whole OS to whatever language you like if you don't have Vista Ultimate which is apparently the only version capable of such a feat.

May I ask for the link?

@RobotsAnger:

It's probably Vistalizator. It works with all Vista and 7 editions. I've been using it for quite a while now, not any problems really.

As for XP, I managed to hack in a language pack once (by installing the Japanese localized version of a service pack), but it was a rather awkward process.

b0ng0 Wrote:The best thing about it is you can really impress your friends with your utter Japanese fluency when they see you using a fully Japanese OS (little do they know, you used it so much before in English that you know what all the menus and buttons do regardless what language they are written in XD)

So true. I leave mine in Japanese until it breaks, and then I switch to "Esperanto" (actually a mix of broken Esperanto and English) when I need to fix it.

I find it's not so much helpful in terms of learning new vocab, but it does provide a constant, if gentle, reminder of "do something in Japanese, bozo."

Codexus Wrote:English is the language used in the computer world. Using an OS in Japanese is like reading the Japanese translation of a novel originally written in English: even if you understand it perfectly it will never be as satisfying as the reading the original.

And it's more motivating to use Japanese for things that wouldn't be possible without it.

Well japanese people use japanese versions of windows. I use a french version of windows etc... Even in everything computer-related, there are many words that are translated in other countries's language. If it wasn't the case technical translators would be jobless

@ Nyanda: stop wishing for a Mac, stop hating Windows, and just install Ubuntu (or Linux distro of your choice). It's in the interests of language learning! (And it really isn't any harder than Windows, just... different.)

donjorge22 Wrote:@ Nyanda: stop wishing for a Mac, stop hating Windows, and just install Ubuntu

No, don't use Linux for Japanese stuff.

I'm using Debian Linux (which Ubuntu is based on) and OS X, and so far as I can tell, Linux' Japanese support is much inferior to OS X' (and presumably Windows'). (And for the record, I'm otherwise a great fan of Linux and use it a lot for software development.)

1. The Japanese font rendering is lousy even after you install all kinds of font packages. Maybe that's my system, but with all the surrounding patent issues, I doubt it's possible to get decent results.

2. The Japanese input method (I'm using Anthy) has a clunky interface compared to OS X. Now I could maybe live with that, but on top of that ...

3. ... its kanji conversion is dumb: しめる (appropriately) yields 閉める, but いとでしめる still yields 糸で閉める, whereas OS X correctly converts it to 糸で締める (= to tie with a thread). I haven't tested it much, but I'd assume that lack of AI in the conversion system will cause other issues as well, like inferior word boundary detection.

4. And finally, I really miss reverse conversion (mark text and hit Ctrl+Shift+R or Ctrl+Shift+Y in OS X). It comes in sooo helpful when you entered something in Japanese but then notice that one of the Kanji ended up wrong.

The Ubuntu Live CD, when booted in Japanese mode, is mostly still English, but I'll assume that once you install it, more programs will actually have Japanese text. Still, if you need to enter Japanese text on a regular basis, I'd avoid it like a plague.

Yes, *do* use Linux for Japanese stuff.

The IME is not great with short phrases or starting sentences in between key words, but it does fairly well with full sentences. For the nerds out there, you can install ATOK (the best IME) for Linux if you want to purchase it.

What Anthy (free IME) needs is a big default database file with prioritized results collected from user data to help the AI. It takes a lot of use before it starts to get adjusted to the way you type and produces consistent results.

My only other gripe about Japanese linux is that if you have file/folder names in Japanese, working with the IME in a terminal where most commands are in romaji requires a lot of switching back and forth. Very clumsy, but easy to fix if you just keep romaji file/folder names.