@Nii87 - captal is right. You can develop the ability to do it at will I think.

Perhaps it is akin to learning Japanese... there is a long way you can go with it, and it's not something you can master completely with minimal effort. But if you train yourself to do it, it will open up your world, perhaps in unexpected ways. And I would guess that it's not nearly as hard as becoming fluent in Japanese.... but who knows, highly individual I suppose. I got pretty decent at it with WAY less effort then I have put into Japanese in the last year...and I still SUCK at Japanese (and will for a loooooong time).....

Really, ya’ll are such bad asses with regard to self studying Japanese, developing LD could well be a walk in the park!

I'm also of the opinion that the skills developed by an active LD practice will improve your mind, and have a nice impact on learning Japanese, as it will strengthen your memory, and is probably great mental hygiene.

I don't know much about the machine. In LaBerge's book he talks about one they developed and were marketing, but I read about it a long time ago, so I'm not sure what the current tech stuff is now. If I remember correctly they made a light that is an external queue, and I'd be willing to bet that it works. I do have a binaural beat Paul Scheele audio lucid dream thing, and I have some other random guided LD audio MP3's, but I really never experimented with them. I think I prefer to just use my own mind to induce LD (WILD style or otherwise) rather then someone else's voice, or a machine. But these may be helpful for some (maybe I should try them and report back). If anyone seriously wants to try them, I'd be curious to hear about their experiences.

@captal - Love the attitude man!

Perhaps the best thing about wanting to remember your dreams, and the whole lucidity trip is that it "wakes" you to new potentials. I see my own reality differently because of the experiences of dreams, and how the experiential quality of each of the states influences the quality of the others.

Really the enthusiasm is infectious. It's really motivating me to get back into the practice again myself!

I keep thinking of little tips to add here, so I'll throw one more out there. I think I learned this one in the Dream Yoga book.....

Lying in bed, before you go to sleep for the night, think about things you are grateful for. Then remember the day, but try to think of it as a dream (I think the past and dreams are quite similar really). Try and go through your entire day this way, as quickly or as detailed as it pleases you (I found rhythm with it) up to the current moment. Be relaxing as you do this. Then resolve to be lucid in your dreams , and meditate on this if you want (or do the "a" in the throat like the monks). You can visualize what you want to do in the LD if you like. Sleep (often I would pass out during the gratitude part -depends on sleep debt I suppose).

When I did this it worked...really well (in conjunction with all the other stuff of course). My own idea about it is that it sort of cleans the slate, and frames things in a way that is conducive to LD. It's like the morning part, when you remember your dreams. You’re directing you attention, and strengthening your ability to remember, and that's the heart of lucidity. And I think cultivating feelings of gratitude for a few minuets (and praying if you do this in some way) is a way to relax your mind and put it in a good space as well.

Hope I don't sound too preachy here...I just keep thinking of stuff. Really there are many paths with it, and just like J study people will check out what has worked for others, then maybe try/adjust/create what works for them. Be creative, and have fun with it!

captal Wrote:I started dream journaling last night- I went to bed and told myself "when I dream, I will remember" - I ended up having 5 distinct dreams, waking up after each one and writing down a few key words so I would remember more in the morning (some of which ended up illegible). I don't know what I think of waking up so often, but I don't think I've ever remembered that many dreams in my life. It was... amazing. It's like a flipped a switch in my brain, and my brain was just waiting for that moment for me to say- time to start remembering.

I remembered 3 dreams last night =D I never thought I'd be able to recall them in such detail. It was really strange, I couldn't remember them at all, but I just stayed still waiting for them to come to me and they just popped into my head a few minutes after I had woken up!

I remember in one dream (the last one I had) that I was thinking that I needed to write down the two other dreams that I had remembered. If only I had realized =)

I had a dream about vampires!!1 OMG Edward was so hot and speaking Japanese.

@Taylorsan- you should get back into it and give us more to aim for! Sounds like you're the pro on LD here, so some of us need a target to shoot for Thanks for the advice- another tip to add to the arsenal!

@bp- my last dream came after I set my phone to alarm vibrate to wake me up so I could just lay still and recall my dreams- but I fell back asleep and had the best dream of the 5 I need to get into the habit of doing reality checks as soon as I wake up, else I'll start getting false awakenings (dreaming you've woken up but you're really still dreaming). One of the best reality checks that I read (and this would have helped you too) is to ask yourself "what was I just doing?" and if the answer is "going to sleep" or something similar you know you're dreaming. Isn't it fantastic though- remembering dreams with detail again?

Here's a pretty good FAQ on LD that answers a lot of questions we've had:
http://www.lucidity.com/LucidDreamingFAQ2.html

Like- how quickly can I learn LD: http://www.lucidity.com/LucidDreamingFAQ2.html#howquick

I used to naturally lucid dream almost nightly, and still have them now albeit less frequently. I think it's because I was somewhat of a solipsist when I was very young and thus unknowingly did reality checks.

Eventually it gets old. Yeah you can do anything, but you know it's not real so it's pointless. It's like writing a novel by yourself and then reading it. Frankly I prefer normal dreams (assuming I remember them).

@captal - I will! Just since this thread started up it has impacted my dreaming. I'm going to get more active with it starting today, and do a little goal setting similar to the way I study Japanese.

But I certainly am no "pro". I certainly never became so good at it that I could do it all the time, or completely control and do anything I wanted. My experience comes from learning to do it about 20 years ago after reading LabBerge's book as a young lad. At different phases of my life I have put effort into the practice, and found that when I do, it reaps rewards (and I continue to get better at flying LOL). But for me it can take a lot of discipline, a quality that I have struggled to have in my life, so it has been very start and stop with LD. However I think that studying Japanese has taught me a great deal about discipline at this phase of my life, so it will be interesting to see what happens this time around....

3 years ago I was doing all the practices I have mentioned, combining things I learned from LaBerge with things I learned in "Dream Yoga" which I read at that time. I peaked at having them up to 5 nights in a week (sometimes more than one), but usually 2-3, and of varying duration/intensity/quality, which did improve with frequency. I did keep a journal at the time, and eventually (and still do) just write in it if I have a really important or amazing dream. It's pretty interesting looking through an old journal...

It also came in waves a bit for me. Sometimes I had fantastic success, and other times it seemed to be infrequent, even if I worked at it. But for the most part effort = LD's. I did this for about 6 months or so, then I became distracted by events in my life, and things tapered off. In the last few years I have not practiced much, but I do have crazy clarity and intense dreams, and have little problem remembering them if I choose to. And maybe 5 - 10 times a year I have one spontaneously. At this point it's a matter of wiping off the dust on the ol' LD reality machine, and see where she takes me...

Perhaps just as interesting as what was happening in my dreams, was how I felt in waking reality. I was living in the most god awful place (suburbia - ok not THE most but...), that normally would have depressed the hell out of me, and was able to be content and clear in a way I had never experienced before. Thinking about it now, I kind of miss that, and want to get it back. I have been so focused on Japanese, and developing it that I have forgotten to practice. The beauty of it is that there is room to do both, and as I mentioned, both will benefit each other. The actual time required to do some sort of LD practice on a daily basis doesn't have to be all that much to make it work.

Thanks to everyone who posted links to LD info. I haven't had a chance to check them out yet, but I will soon, and I'm sure there's tons more things I can learn about it. And be sure to post any tips/ideas of your own. I'm always looking for ways to improve and refine things (yeah...kinda like Japanese studies perhaps).

I did it!! I thought (in my dream) "Wait, how did I get here?", and I looked at my hands and I had 6 fingers! I was lucid for about 20~30 seconds before I woke up. I tried flying, but I ended up just jumping pretty high and landing flat on my face =( Soon, everything started to fade and I woke up. I probably should have tried rubbing my hands or spinning, but I guess I was too excited to remember (that's probably why I woke up as well..)

Awesome =D Limited success in 4~5 days. Not bad, hopefully I'll get better at it =)

woah, bombpersons that was quick. congrats.

this thread has motivated me to try again. thanks guys. i pretty much never remember my dreams, so in the past 3 days i've kept a dream journal and it's amazing how quickly my journal went from a little scribble to a vivid recollection. just that alone excites me! it also gives me patience while i wait for my LD success

congrats bp! next time settle down

What was it like? Was it more vivid being lucid? I always feel that when I'm experiencing the dream, it is hazy... like I'm drunk and have my eyes partially closed or something. I'm hoping LD brings everything into clarity.

Good job bombpersons! That's awesome! When I started it was similar. I've had many jump dreams, where I jump up a huge cliff, or into a tree, or down. Or jump/fly onto walls, and jump wall to wall. Those are fun. Flight took me some time to develop. At first I would just float uncontrollably. Then I got a bit more control but there were always these power lines I had trouble getting past. Then I rocketed past the power lines, and was never bothered by them again. Then I would get so fricking high, and the butterflies in my stomach were so intense , that I would loose it. It felt real - like actually being 5,000 feet up in the air. Eventually flying into outer space was my goal. Then to another planet. Now I work on finite control, like dive bombing under a bridge over a river, and dragging a single toe in the water. But I still have not mastered the art, and many times it's like a jet pack and glide, like a boost I turn on and off with my mind (I found that the mind works great for me, if I try too hard to "physically" fly it becomes a struggle). I want to rock it like superman - total control.

I'm stoked for you man! It can be tricky to stay calm and remember all the tricks etc., even if you've done it a lot. They will vary widely in quality and duration too. I had one two nights ago where I realized I was dreaming because of a slight float/flutter in gravity as a walked. I tested it by putting my arm through a glass widow (like a ghost). But I questioned it for some reason, and tried it again. This time my hand hit a solid window, and the LD was over before it even got going! There seem to be endless variations on the dream messing with me from dream to dream, but I usually don't fall for the same trick twice.

Take each experience in and learn from it, and you will probably quickly improve, and make steady progress.

I used to be into that lucid dreaming stuff for a while. I managed to fly once or twice. Mostly my obsession was about finding out if dreams are as detailed as reality.

Unfortunately this is an unsolvable problem. If even if I think they are while dreaming, how can I know if that's because that's actually the case or just that in my dream state I'm unable to see the difference?

Maybe I should try it again. These days my dreams are mostly incredibly dumb and boring.

This thread is trippy.

Apparently a dream journal is the first step for lucidity, but I just want to get to the meat of it =P

The journal is useful, but not a requisite. I never did it extensively myself. It can help you track things to pick out patterns and dream signs, and develop better dream recall. But if you want to skip the journal it's fine I think, just exercise remembering your dreams as much as you can when you wake up, and use the induction exercises.

chamcham Wrote:As long as I don't start hearing about homoerotic lucid dreams
with Heisig in them, I think we'll be fine.

ok so there was no homoeroticism in my dream, but there was some heisig -_-;

i heard that if you want to calm down and stay in the dream once learning you were lucid, you had to grab something. so i imagined the primitive for "two hands," and then i grabbed a life-sized version of that kanji.

so lame.

I'm not having as much luck as BP, but I'm still journaling every day. There is no consistency in my dreams! Last night I dreamt about someone a criminal running by the and the police yelling to catch him in Japanese.

The night before I had a sword fight, but before the fight I saw I had "stats" like an RPG (strength, dexterity, etc). I dreamt I was on a bus and looking up info on wikipedia about Bon Jovi (not my thing- my gf likes em). Another night I was in a car waiting at a toll both.

In the 15 or so dreams I've recorded there is nothing consistent aside from I sometimes dream about people back in America while I'm living in Japan- which should be a big enough hint as it is

I think I need to spend more time developing "reality checks" in hope that I'll do them in my dreams.

So far my Lucid Dreaming experience have been limited to only controlling my own actions within the dream, and nothing else.

The main thing I have in common is my ability to fly, which is usually required to play out the dream anyways, and the main thing that usually ends the dream, is usually the inability to breath, especially when I am about to scream.

Even though I know it's a dream it can be scary stuff when this happens ><

I think I prefer this type of Lucid Dream to the godmode, like playing a game, but without the cheats.

Codexus Wrote:I used to be into that lucid dreaming stuff for a while. I managed to fly once or twice. Mostly my obsession was about finding out if dreams are as detailed as reality.

Unfortunately this is an unsolvable problem. If even if I think they are while dreaming, how can I know if that's because that's actually the case or just that in my dream state I'm unable to see the difference?

Maybe I should try it again. These days my dreams are mostly incredibly dumb and boring.

If you ever find yourself sleeping with Angelina Jolie, then it's DEFINITELY a dream....lol.....

Yeah no LD's for me here (since last post)- just the usual intense random weird array of stuff. I personally don't try to analyze them too much.....

I have been reality checking and amping up practice, so maybe soon? You never know with this stuff.

I had the same experience with the dream journal/ finding patterns - Tons of data but....

I basically noticed distant friends appearing, and occasional car/wacky physics/no brakes type of driving dreams. I also have lots of dreams where I'm trying to do something fun, like go snowboarding or play a game of hoops, and it just doesn't happen, the game never starts, there's no snow, etc. (this is one that is easy to analyze LOL). For me LD seems to work best from reality checks, especially the little "hop" gravity check.

Do you do this "hop" in public? I'm kind of scared to give that one a shot, though it sounds like an awesome check.

I was doing the nose plug and push the finger though the hand check but I keep forgetting. Maybe I should do something every time I go through a door or something...

Have anyway of you guys heard of the Ganzfeld experiment?

If you've seen the Japanese drama "Nanase Futatabi", there is an episode
where a scientist conducts a Ganzfeld experiment.

It puts your body into a state of mild sensory deprivation.

Basically, you deprive your eyes and ears the ability to sense anything correctly.

You have this red light shining into your eyes and the whole room is the same color
and there are no distinguishing features to help you pick out parts of the room.
After some time, you're unable to perceive depth.

So imagine if a whole room is painted the same color and you can't even tell where the wall is (or if there are any walls nearby). It's just a sea of pure white (or red, or whatever color you choose).

For your eyes, they project white or pink noise (both are kinds of random computer generated noise). So after a while, you're unable to tell if you are hearing real sounds or if it's random noise.

I can imagine that people get into weird trippy states doing this stuff.

Ganzfeld experiment were mainly used in experiment to detect ESP or telepathy (as in "Nanase Futatabi").

Anyway, here's a wikipedia link for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_experiment

Almost makes me wish I could try it out once to see if I get any cool dreams or whatever.

In addition to white noise and pink noise, you can also try red/brown noise. YMMV.

LOL - Yeah, but usually just do a little "skip" as I'm walking if there are lots of people around and I don't want to appear to be the weirdo I truly am. Most the time no one pays attention or there is no one around. I walk my dog at night and use the walk to study Japanese on the ipod and sprinkle in some reality checks.

I never heard of the nose plug or finger palm push - those sound good.

I remember some reality checks I have had happen in dreams that never happen awake - like jumping off stuff or walking through walls. It's scary to jump off something when you're not sure if your dreaming or not! I'm not sure why I do it, but it must be on account that I'm not exactly the same "person" in my dreams as I am awake. Meaning, I make choices that I would never make in waking state.

Off to walk the dog and check reality....good dreaming my friends.

Actually, how about someone try this out.

Lie down.

Cut a ping pong ball in half and place the halves over both eyes.
Put on headphones and play white/red/pink/brown noise continuously (using gapless playback) for 30 minutes. (http://www.simplynoise.com/download.html) --> scroll down the page

Also, white noise has been known to help people sleep or concentrate.
Let us know if you had any weird hallucinations or lucid dreams.

Meh, I've not had any lucid dreams since my first one yet, but I've had a few close calls. For example, I had a dream where I was talking to someone about lucid dreaming, but I still didn't do any reality checks =(

I seem to have quite an odd dream sign. In a lot of my dreams, I've been watching TV and whatever's happening on the TV has enveloped the whole dream. For example I had a dream a few days ago, where I was watching some anime. There was a full opening sequence and everything! It had something to do with "High fives" since everyone in the opening were giving each other high fives and the music's chorus went like "High Five! High Five!".
Now whenever I see a TV I think I'll do a reality check =D

I've been trying the WILD method (wake initiated lucid dream), but I just end up staying awake. I've heard weird sounds a few times, but I've never got as far as dreaming. Also I'm never sure if I'm in sleep paralysis or not.. my body feels numb, but I feel like I can still move.

I guess I just need to keep trying =)

no LD for me yet. i've been journaling and i've noticed all sorts of ridiculous and crazy things in my dreams, but i just can't get myself to realize it while i'm actually dreaming. a recurring theme for me is that old friends and lost pets keep showing up but i feel like it's completely normal. also i'm in strange places i've never been to before, but i don't seem to mind. lol. how can i get myself to notice these cues while in the dream?