I've recently met a Japanese exchange student at my university who is in an intensive English program right now. We've been hanging out in the library helping each other learn each others' language, and I wanted to introduce her to some English movies to help her with her immersion. However, she's not so hardcore as to watch a movie without understanding it so I wanted to find her Japanese subtitles for them.

Is there a source for Japanese subtitles? Perhaps some kind of Japanese equivalent to http://opensubtitles.org?

Do you think it'll be helpful? I mean it's not difficult in Japan to watch movies in English with Japanese subtitles (especially in cinema).
Also from my experience with Japanese movies and English subtitles one is usually focusing on the subtitles without paying much attention to what is being said (at least not constantly).

What about English movies with English subtitles?

While I agree that 'one is usually focusing on the subtitles', one is also usually not learning the language involved. If you specifically watch the movie to listen and match up the words with the subtitles, you can do it. It's harder, but not impossible.

Having said that, EN with EN subs is definitely better, if she can manage that.

Here's a small anecdote from my experience learning English.
I've been born and raised in the very north of Germany, close to the Danish border. Everyone who has been to Germany and tried to speak English with someone on the street or a sales clerk will probably remember that distinct German accent, that so many Germans have. I accredit that to the English that's taught in our Schools. Still I was a pretty bad student and learned only a little vocab, grammar didn't make sense, it didn't make sense in German either, to me. Equipped with about 5 years of School-English I went to my relatives to WI, USA. Initially I understood little, my cousin who only spent his first two years in Germany and has lived the rest of his life in the US, was not very enthusiastic about talking German with me. (in retrospect that's been by far the best thing he could have done). My Aunt and Uncle sometimes spoke German with me, but most of the time English. It's a damn lot easier to understand someone talking to you directly then to follow a conversation, passively. They did one thing that, at the time, seemed enormously stupid to me. They gave my cousin some extra change so he would go to the cinema with me quite often, while I nearly understood nothing at all in the beginning, towards the end of my stay I was able to get 90%+. Additionally I went to School (two weeks), played in the soccer team each day about two to three hours, and hung out with him and his friends. During my stay of 6 weeks (Summer break), I learn so much English that I went from close to 'F' to 'B'. Mostly B because I had no clue about the grammar, I just spoke and wrote the way it felt "right". I haven't looked into any grammar book or for vocab since then. I use English every day, as I do right now. But that's it. As someone stated in a different thread, at a certain point you can infer the meaning of words from the context. Doing that a few times, and the word will stick.

So my advice is, drop the subtitles. And try to get as much as you can from the movies. Something I did note is: Animated movies, (think Pixar) are far easier to understand than those with real environments. It's just that in animated movies, people tend to mumble less and the audio quality is better: less noise.

Just my two cents of experience.

angerman Wrote:Here's a small anecdote from my experience learning English.
I've been born and raised in the very north of Germany, close to the Danish border. Everyone who has been to Germany and tried to speak English with someone on the street or a sales clerk will probably remember that distinct German accent, that so many Germans have. I accredit that to the English that's taught in our Schools. Still I was a pretty bad student and learned only a little vocab, grammar didn't make sense, it didn't make sense in German either, to me. Equipped with about 5 years of School-English I went to my relatives to WI, USA. Initially I understood little, my cousin who only spent his first two years in Germany and has lived the rest of his life in the US, was not very enthusiastic about talking German with me. (in retrospect that's been by far the best thing he could have done). My Aunt and Uncle sometimes spoke German with me, but most of the time English. It's a damn lot easier to understand someone talking to you directly then to follow a conversation, passively. They did one thing that, at the time, seemed enormously stupid to me. They gave my cousin some extra change so he would go to the cinema with me quite often, while I nearly understood nothing at all in the beginning, towards the end of my stay I was able to get 90%+. Additionally I went to School (two weeks), played in the soccer team each day about two to three hours, and hung out with him and his friends. During my stay of 6 weeks (Summer break), I learn so much English that I went from close to 'F' to 'B'. Mostly B because I had no clue about the grammar, I just spoke and wrote the way it felt "right". I haven't looked into any grammar book or for vocab since then. I use English every day, as I do right now. But that's it. As someone stated in a different thread, at a certain point you can infer the meaning of words from the context. Doing that a few times, and the word will stick.

So my advice is, drop the subtitles. And try to get as much as you can from the movies. Something I did note is: Animated movies, (think Pixar) are far easier to understand than those with real environments. It's just that in animated movies, people tend to mumble less and the audio quality is better: less noise.

Just my two cents of experience.

I'm not adding anything here, just that I think this post is really cool. I like the lesson in it.

skinnyneo Wrote:

angerman Wrote:Here's a small anecdote from my experience learning English.
I've been born and raised in the very north of Germany, close to the Danish border. Everyone who has been to Germany and tried to speak English with someone on the street or a sales clerk will probably remember that distinct German accent, that so many Germans have. I accredit that to the English that's taught in our Schools. Still I was a pretty bad student and learned only a little vocab, grammar didn't make sense, it didn't make sense in German either, to me. Equipped with about 5 years of School-English I went to my relatives to WI, USA. Initially I understood little, my cousin who only spent his first two years in Germany and has lived the rest of his life in the US, was not very enthusiastic about talking German with me. (in retrospect that's been by far the best thing he could have done). My Aunt and Uncle sometimes spoke German with me, but most of the time English. It's a damn lot easier to understand someone talking to you directly then to follow a conversation, passively. They did one thing that, at the time, seemed enormously stupid to me. They gave my cousin some extra change so he would go to the cinema with me quite often, while I nearly understood nothing at all in the beginning, towards the end of my stay I was able to get 90%+. Additionally I went to School (two weeks), played in the soccer team each day about two to three hours, and hung out with him and his friends. During my stay of 6 weeks (Summer break), I learn so much English that I went from close to 'F' to 'B'. Mostly B because I had no clue about the grammar, I just spoke and wrote the way it felt "right". I haven't looked into any grammar book or for vocab since then. I use English every day, as I do right now. But that's it. As someone stated in a different thread, at a certain point you can infer the meaning of words from the context. Doing that a few times, and the word will stick.

So my advice is, drop the subtitles. And try to get as much as you can from the movies. Something I did note is: Animated movies, (think Pixar) are far easier to understand than those with real environments. It's just that in animated movies, people tend to mumble less and the audio quality is better: less noise.

Just my two cents of experience.

I'm not adding anything here, just that I think this post is really cool. I like the lesson in it.

I second that, and big props on the English cos it's really good

snip

angerman Wrote:Mostly B because I had no clue about the grammar, I just spoke and wrote the way it felt "right". I haven't looked into any grammar book or for vocab since then. I use English every day, as I do right now. But that's it.

Hey, that's how Americans learn English Your grammar is perfect. Very cool!

angerman Wrote:So my advice is, drop the subtitles. And try to get as much as you can from the movies. Something I did note is: Animated movies, (think Pixar) are far easier to understand than those with real environments. It's just that in animated movies, people tend to mumble less and the audio quality is better: less noise.

I noticed the same thing when I ripped the audio out of anime episodes. Voice actors are trained to speak really clearly, and the sound effects are usually very well done. The audio tracks for TV in the United States are produced the same way radio shows were produced since the 1930s. Why? The producers have to assume that people are not paying close attention to the screen, and that the image is dim and blurry.
I've gotten a huge amount out of listening to the first four episodes of Inuyasha - I used to put it on my ipod, and lie in bed, and close my eyes and try to imagine what was going on. There is a huge amount of audio detail letting you know what is going on in that show.

Advice:
Dropping the subtitles works better if you already know whats going on. Ask her if she wants to watch something familiar, like Spirited Away, dubbed. Dubbed with English subtitles would probably be helpful, since she probably has some recognition vocab. Never doubt the importance of reinforcing recognition. Watching a show once in Japanese and once in English might even be worthwhile. Another technique that I've seen used is to watch in the target language, and then explain to someone fluent what you saw happen. You two could take turns - that could be a lot of fun!

And, sorry, I don't know where to get .jp subtitles, though I swear Khatzumoto on AJAT has three or four posts on that. Hmm. Try: http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...ranscripts

Thanks, for all the kudos, but I don't really think I'm that good, there are quite a few phrases I would reword, after reading my comment again.

Though that way of learning the language it's definitely a route I would like to take for Japanese too. I've to work without going to JP though, as that's nowhere near my possibilities right now. Been there last year, didn't understand a bit. Too bad.

I find the only trouble with animated shows is that although the pronunciation is super clear (which is nice), people don't talk super clear in real life with tonnes of back ground noise.

In saying that, it's actually quite useful when you're starting out or in the beginner phase After that you really should move to stuff that you're actually going to encounter.

angerman Wrote:Here's a small anecdote from my experience learning English.
I've been born and raised in the very north of Germany, close to the Danish border. Everyone who has been to Germany and tried to speak English with someone on the street or a sales clerk will probably remember that distinct German accent, that so many Germans have. I accredit that to the English that's taught in our Schools. Still I was a pretty bad student and learned only a little vocab, grammar didn't make sense, it didn't make sense in German either, to me. Equipped with about 5 years of School-English I went to my relatives to WI, USA. Initially I understood little, my cousin who only spent his first two years in Germany and has lived the rest of his life in the US, was not very enthusiastic about talking German with me. (in retrospect that's been by far the best thing he could have done). My Aunt and Uncle sometimes spoke German with me, but most of the time English. It's a damn lot easier to understand someone talking to you directly then to follow a conversation, passively. They did one thing that, at the time, seemed enormously stupid to me. They gave my cousin some extra change so he would go to the cinema with me quite often, while I nearly understood nothing at all in the beginning, towards the end of my stay I was able to get 90%+. Additionally I went to School (two weeks), played in the soccer team each day about two to three hours, and hung out with him and his friends. During my stay of 6 weeks (Summer break), I learn so much English that I went from close to 'F' to 'B'. Mostly B because I had no clue about the grammar, I just spoke and wrote the way it felt "right". I haven't looked into any grammar book or for vocab since then. I use English every day, as I do right now. But that's it. As someone stated in a different thread, at a certain point you can infer the meaning of words from the context. Doing that a few times, and the word will stick.

So my advice is, drop the subtitles. And try to get as much as you can from the movies. Something I did note is: Animated movies, (think Pixar) are far easier to understand than those with real environments. It's just that in animated movies, people tend to mumble less and the audio quality is better: less noise.

Just my two cents of experience.

I agree an excellent post. But I think the real lesson here is the way to learn any language is to communicate with people. Not to study textbooks or even to watch movies. Instead spend the time communicating.

While useful I have come to the conclusion that even popular tools like SRSs are only a part of the solution.

There was a study that come out recently about children who watch the Baby Einstein DVDs that were supposed to be educational and make them smarter. Instead it made them dumber because the time they spent watching them they weren't spending interacting with their parents and others.

So watch that movie, use that SRS, but most of all you need to find people who speak that language and who are patient enough and willing to communicate with you while you are still learning the language.

Hmm, is it 'quote the whole message day' or something? Come on, guys, edit before you post.

Also yes, going to the country and being immersed, real interactive immersion not just pretending to listen all day to something you completely ignore, is off course very useful.

angerman Wrote:Equipped with about 5 years of School-English

(see! selective quoting is not difficult)

But we shouldn't dismiss that. Those years may not have produced much results by themselves, but you did learn a lot. Even things we have forgotten can be reactivated later much more easily.

We shouldn't confuse the actual learning and the catalyst that suddenly makes all that we have learned useful. You didn't learn English in just 6 weeks of seeing a few movies without subtitles. You mostly activated your passive knowledge accumulated over several years and reached the critical mass that made learning even easier.

Just watching lots of movies (subs or not) isn't going to teach anyone a language unless, he knows enough already to benefit from the experience.