Hello world!

So I have recently finished RTK.
My method up to this point has entailed writing each character in a notebook before revealing the card (I have filled 3 notebooks cover-to-cover). Now, however, I would like to devote more of my SRS rep time to phrases and vocab, as opposed to the few hours a day I would devote to the kanji exclusively.

So my question is, should one continue to write down each character, making for an awfully time-consuming activity, as I had when I was still unfamiliar with the character, or would it suffice to draw a mental image in my head, recalling the primitives and comparing the mental image to the card without writing it down? This would allow me to burst through due cards a lot faster and have more time to do phrases/vocab.

I was also contemplating to perhaps switch from production mode (show English keyword first) to recognition mode (Kanji first, keyword revealed). Up until this point I have strictly done production, and have neglected recognition completely (with good results).

I would be terribly interested to know about other RTK graduates' experiences after finishing the first volume, and how they're kanji studies have since changed. Do you guys dabble in both recognition and production, or strictly one or the other; why, and how has this worked for you? If you've made changes to your studies after RTK, how did they work out for you?

Should one just keep investing the overwhelming amount of time until all cards are fully matured, or can one pursue an easier, faster route (no writing).

I hope this thread takes off, as I believe it to be terribly relevant. Where do we go from here and how do we allocate our SRS time. Any thoughts would be very appreciated. =)

Warm regards,
Elan

How many SRS reps do you have per day that it takes hours to review? That seems like too much time.

As far as putting the kanji on the question side and the keyword on the answer side, let me ask you: how would that help you learn Japanese? I mean that's the goal, right? It isn't about knowing a bunch of keywords in English, it's about learning Japanese.

I'd say figure out why it's taking you so damn long to do your reviews every day and fix that, and then start learning Japanese.

@elanlan: Next step? Learn to read!

bflatnine Wrote:As far as putting the kanji on the question side and the keyword on the answer side, let me ask you: how would that help you learn Japanese?

There is an answer to this believe it or not. It's damn helpful when initially needing to remember which kanji are used in compounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many times do I have to say it?

I have about 600 cards due now.
I use Anki, and I always select "hard" even if I know it well. It's a habit I've developed when the intervals seemed to be too long for me.

I suppose I could start using "good" and "easy" now; but would ceasing to write them, and continue only using "hard" be more effective than dramatically increasing intervals? At this point most cards already have about 1 month+ interval when selecting "hard."

I guess the question is: Is it more beneficial to write them with longer intervals (using good/easy), or increase frequency (small intervals: hard), while neglecting to write them.

How long did it take you guys after finishing RTK to have a manageable amount of due cards daily. And what could one expect as time passes? Say, 4 months after finishing, how many cards are due daily? I'd love to get an idea about post-RTK long-term SRSing. I'm still at the point where I have about 200 due cards a day.

What are your experiences with managing both phrases and kanji? Do you use different decks? Sorry for all the questions, I am very curious about this next stage in my evolution, it's exhilarating. I want to follow the best course of action.

Thanks guys.

mezbup Wrote:There is an answer to this believe it or not. It's damn helpful when initially needing to remember which kanji are used in compounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many times do I have to say it?

Ah yes, I must have missed that when I was reading through all of your 547 posts.

Quote:I use Anki, and I always select "hard" even if I know it well. It's a habit I've developed when the intervals seemed to be too long for me.

This is your problem. The other buttons are there for a reason, and by not using them when you should you've screwed yourself up. The beauty of an SRS is that it handles everything for you, if you grade yourself accurately. Don't try to outsmart the program. If the interval is too long and you get it wrong, mark it wrong, but don't assume that you know the interval will be too long beforehand. You're just shooting yourself in the foot that way. Change the settings so that the intervals don't even show up, and just grade the card according to its difficulty.

Some people put the sentence on one side and on the other write the entire sentence in hiragana. When you review a sentence in hiragana, you try to write the whole sentence (with kanji) from memory.

That way you will kill 2 birds with one stone.

Keep the daily kanji reviews to less than 30 min (maybe 45 minutes at most).

bflatnine Wrote:This is your problem. The other buttons are there for a reason, and by not using them when you should you've screwed yourself up. The beauty of an SRS is that it handles everything for you, if you grade yourself accurately. Don't try to outsmart the program. If the interval is too long and you get it wrong, mark it wrong, but don't assume that you know the interval will be too long beforehand. You're just shooting yourself in the foot that way. Change the settings so that the intervals don't even show up, and just grade the card according to its difficulty.

Thanks, I always suspected that it might be counterproductive, I think I just needed to hear it elsewhere. Thank you ^^

You're doing WAAY to many reviews. You gotta start using 3 and 4. I use 3 for anything I can remember correctly, and only use hard for things I failed in the last review, or that took me far too long to remember. 4 I reserve for things that I don't have to think about at all; things I remember instantaneously.

Answering 2 (hard) on everything is actually quite detrimental to the memorization process, and you might as well not even use an SRS at all. Trust your SRS application. Remember, the longer the interval, the better you will remember it next time if you get it right.

elanlan Wrote:What are your experiences with managing both phrases and kanji? Do you use different decks? Sorry for all the questions, I am very curious about this next stage in my evolution, it's exhilarating. I want to follow the best course of action.

Haven't finished RTK but did the sentence method before I started (about 2k~ sentences). Definitely keep your decks separate, it's just more organized that way, and also for me there are times where I review RTK but don't review my sentences. Always having that option is a pretty nice thing. It might get annoying sometimes, but it's worth it. Another factor would be if you let your RTK deck combine with your sentence deck you won't get an accurate representation of the kanji data provided by Anki (because you covered all jouyou in RTK). For instance my RTK says I know 1300 Kanji, but my sentences show that I know 560. It's just nice to have that distinction.

brandon7s Wrote:You're doing WAAY to many reviews. You gotta start using 3 and 4. I use 3 for anything I can remember correctly, and only use hard for things I failed in the last review, or that took me far too long to remember. 4 I reserve for things that I don't have to think about at all; things I remember instantaneously.

Answering 2 (hard) on everything is actually quite detrimental to the memorization process, and you might as well not even use an SRS at all. Trust your SRS application. Remember, the longer the interval, the better you will remember it next time if you get it right.

This sounds like a sound system, I will start doing this. Thank you. =)

is it just me, or doesn't anki automatically suggest a choice? I usually hit space (what ever anki thinks is the right remembering step) unless I fail in which case I hit 1. so I basically have my index finger on 1 and thumb on space, while I write the character down with my right hand. When I feel that I know the kanji blind, I hit 4 to assist anki. I never choose between 2 and 3, anki does. At least that's what anki does on os x.

edit: I forgot to mention that I set the leech threshold to 3. When ever I clog up 50 or 100 leeches, I go to learn mode and check my stories for each of the leech cards. And reset them as new cards.

angerman Wrote:is it just me, or doesn't anki automatically suggest a choice? I usually hit space (what ever anki thinks is the right remembering step) unless I fail in which case I hit 1. so I basically have my index finger on 1 and thumb on space, while I write the character down with my right hand. When I feel that I know the kanji blind, I hit 4 to assist anki. I never choose between 2 and 3, anki does. At least that's what anki does on os x.

I think it defaults to "3" when you use the space bar, and "2" when you use the space bar after you've failed the card in the current session.

angerman Wrote:When ever I clog up 50 or 100 leeches, I go to learn mode and check my stories for each of the leech cards. And reset them as new cards.

What is this learn mode? I simply disabled suspending leeches. Is this not a good idea?

I don't suspend leeches either. I think it kind of depends on your style. Suspending is supposed to make the process more efficient, since you're spending a disproportionate amount of time on the stubborn ones.

That said, I could usually self identify what was turning into a leech for me and just dealt with them on a case by case basis, by either revising the story or just writing it on a sticky note and putting it on my desk at work until I got used to seeing it.

elanlan Wrote:

angerman Wrote:When ever I clog up 50 or 100 leeches, I go to learn mode and check my stories for each of the leech cards. And reset them as new cards.

What is this learn mode? I simply disabled suspending leeches. Is this not a good idea?

Well Anki has a 'Learn...' mode just next to the 'Cram...' mode. I'm not exactly sure how those two modes differ, but I subjectivly like the Learn mode better.

Hmm, I finished about a month ago and get 60 reviews a day. So about 10 minutes a day. End up forgetting about 15% of old cards but doesn't really take any time to review a few a day.