Hashiriya Wrote:but what about the 1st sentence i put? "Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus is Michael the archangel, the highest created being." is this a true belief of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

They may believe that, but Jesus Christ is a man approved of God among his people by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of them. No more, no less.

"I do exactly what God has commanded me." Matthew 14:31

"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but He Who sent me." John 5:30

"For I did not speak of my own accord, but God, Who sent me, told me what to say and how to say it. I know that His command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what God has told me to say." John 12:49-50

Hashiriya Wrote:http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
yeh, i kinda like reading this website btw

Codexus Wrote:He was just being modest.

So you think it is just modesty, but in fact he is God and the Son of God?

The Greek word "pais" can be used in Greek for either "servant" or "son." Many modern Bible translations like the NKJV, NW, NIV, ASV, NASB and other translations which are more accurate to original texts chose the meaning "servant." But the other translators (as in King James version) chose the meaning "son".

When he exact same word "pais" is attributed to Jacob (Israel) in Luke 1:54, the translators of King James version (and others) translated it as "servant":

"He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy"

It is also applied to King David in Luke 1:69, and once again, it is translated as "servant":

"....the house of his servant David;" (also see Acts 4:25).

However, when it is applied to Jesus (e.g. Acts 3:13, Acts 4:27), NOW it is translated as "Son." (notice that it is not only translated as "son" but as "Son".) Why the double standard? Why the dishonest translation techniques?

magamo Wrote:

ahibba Wrote:Is there a printed version with furigana?

It seems you can download the audiobook version in mp3 format here:

http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=QrYQZRQVNlVlYR

Choose Japanese and the Bible book you want. If you're interested in improving oral/aural skills as well, this might be better than furigana.

A-amazing...a Korean audio book.

so what you are saying is... we should all learn Greek

Hashiriya Wrote:so what you are saying is... we should all learn Greek

でしょう？

at least it is better than relying on others' fansubs

God look da dry groun an da sea, an he tell, “Real, real good, all dat!”

omg Hawaii rocks.

I'm nothing ahibba, I don't know if I'd be of any help either~

ahibba Wrote:[Jason] BeDuhn states that "most of the differences are due to the greater accuracy of the NW (the JW's translation) as a literal, conservative translation."

He says that "it emerges as the most accurate of the translations compared," calling it a "remarkably good" translation.

Huh, interesting -- I looked up the book on Amazon, and it seems BeDuhn has done some solid research (and doesn't seem to have an agenda)... I honestly didn't realize the NW translation was any good. I guess I stand corrected on my quote:

epsilondelta Wrote:I believe that where JW beliefs differ from mainstream Christian beliefs, it can affect their translation

Gods aren't strange, the people that believe in them are

Tzadeck Wrote:Let's, uh, not talk about whether or not other people's Gods are strange or not.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Gods aren't strange, the people that believe in them are

"Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures." The Hindu scripture, Bhagavad Gita 7:20

There are no gods but God.

"Shma Israel, Adonai, Eloheinu, Adonai ekhad." (Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.) ONE God!

"If there were in them (the heavens and the earth) other gods beside God, there would have been chaos."

"God has never begotten a son. Nor was there ever any other god beside Him. Otherwise, each god would have declared independence with his creations, and they would have competed with each other for dominance. God be glorified; far above their claims." The Islamic scripture, The Koran.

"He has none like Him. Nothing resembles Him. He is without an origin or end, without a rival, a prototype, a friend, father, mother, wife, son, an abode, a body or form and without colour and scent. He is above all that you can imagine of." Dasatir, the Zoroastrian scripture.

"Ekam evadvitiyam" (He is One only without a second) the Hindu scripture, Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1

"Of Him there are neither parents nor lord." the Hindu scripture, Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9

"O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the Divine One. Praise Him alone." Rigveda 8:1:1

Was all that quoting in reference to something or was it just for the hell of it?

Wait, are we just randomly throwing out quotes? Because I can do that too.

Here's a good one from 1882,

Nietzsche Wrote:"The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. "Whither is God?" he cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him---you and I. All of us are his murderers. But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning? Do we hear nothing as yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we smell nothing as yet of the divine decomposition? Gods, too, decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. "

See how that was random, pointless, and didn't advance the discussion at all? Do I win?



How about this one?

Homer Wrote:When goddess Athena with her glittering eyes
saw Argives being slaughtered in the battle frenzy,
she rushed down from Olympus heights to sacred Ilion.
Apollo, keeping watch from Pergamus,
came to confront her.* He wanted victory
for Trojans. The two met one another by the oak tree.
Lord Apollo, son of Zeus, addressed Athena first.

@ahibba
"Gods aren't strange, the people that believe in them are!" Jarvik7, postid:80472

and of course:
"...And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the Lord did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu<snip>... And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceedest on to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it." Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, verses 9-21

Worship a Goddess. Heaven is just a sin away.

"If you ask them, they would say, "We were only mocking and kidding." Say, "Do you realize that you are mocking God, and His revelations?"


"Woe to every fabricator, guilty. The one who hears God's revelations recited to him, then insists arrogantly on his way, as if he never heard them. Promise him a painful retribution. When he learns anything about our revelations, he mocks them. These have incurred a shameful retribution."


"Have you noted the one whose God is his ego? Consequently, God sends him astray, despite his knowledge, seals his hearing and his mind, and places a veil on his eyes. Who then can guide him, after such a decision by God? Would you not take heed?

They said, "We only live this life; we live and die and only time causes our death!" They have no sure knowledge about this; they only conjecture."


"Say, "God has granted you life, then He puts you to death, then He will summon you to the Day of Resurrection, which is inevitable. But most people do not know."

To God belongs all sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. The Day of Judgment comes to pass, that is when the falsifiers lose.

You will see every community kneeling. Every community will be called to view their record. Today, you get paid for everything you have done.

This is our record; it utters the truth about you. We have been recording everything you did.

As for those who believe and work righteousness, their Lord will admit them into His mercy. This is the great triumph.

As for those who disbelieve: "Were not My revelations recited to you, but you turned arrogant and were wicked people?"

When it is proclaimed that God's promise is the truth and that the Day of Judgment is inevitable, you said, "We do not know what the Day of Judgment is! We are full of conjecture about it; we are not certain."

The evils of their works will become evident to them, and the very things they mocked will come back and haunt them.

It will be proclaimed: "Today we forget you, just as you forgot the meeting of this day. Your abode is the hellfire, and you will have no helpers.

"This is because you took God's revelations in vain, and were preoccupied with the first life." Consequently, they will never exit therefrom, nor will they be excused.

To God belongs all praise; Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth, Lord of the universe.

To Him belongs all supremacy in the heavens and the earth. He is the Almighty, Most Wise."

What are you doing Ahibba?

ahhiba, i am a little confused... what is your religion? I don`t find my God strange at all btw, just because my God may appear to be similar to another God in another religion doesn`t mean I am worshiping the wrong God... if you are of a different religion it might appear strange to you... I think people can have scripture battles all day... they have and will have for years to come.

Why do religious people never realize that just because it's written in scripture doesn't make it significant to the non-religious (or followers of a different religion)?

What is ahibba trying to convince people of anyways? Random quotes with no commentary don't carry much meaning.

ahibba, this is one of the main reasons people have the low opinions on religion that were expressed at the start of the post.

If i could be bothered, i would look up some relevent quotes, but, basically i can't. I'm sure you will know the quotes i'm refering to. It also says the following things:

before you take the speck out of your neighbours eye, look for the rock in your own.

don't feel like you're in the place to judge others, only god is the one who can judge.

god will judge you in accordance with your own standards.

we are all children of god.

most people dislike the hypocrisy of using any quote in the bible to meet your specific need at the time. Not only its hypocritical its both rude and arrogant to think your quote applies to the situation. If your a christian, look for the overall message, and apply that in your actions instead... imo.

i honestly wish that religion wasn`t as big as an argument that it has come to be these days... i wish it was more clear to people which one is the one to follow. i don`t want anything bad to happen to anybody no matter what kind of person they are. i don`t believe that telling everyone to worship my religion or you are going to burn is the right way to go about doing things either.... personally, i think a good prayer would be "God, I may not understand everything you are doing in this world, but I trust you and whatever is your true plan to follow, I believe in that... just guide me onto whatever path you want me to be on and know I am on your side." I think a prayer like that would be a good start for a lot of people.

Ahibba likes to play autistic/provoke, I wouldn't take it too seriously.

That said... "Blood and souls for my Lord Arioch!"

But look, i think all this talk of people burning for worshipping the wrong god is a bit absurd. I think the bible talks about worshipping statues as wrong.

This is because it objectifies god.

By saying that one religion has the true god, you are doing exactly the same thing. It makes god into an object.

If you look at the way someone worships instead... please look at the qualitative difference. What is the difference in quality of love between someone who believes in a trinity or someone who beleives in islam. God isn't a fixed "thing" that you can point to. Therefore, it's only the qualitative experience of religion that matters, not what name you attach to it. Everyone who worships is gesturing towards something that overrides any concept or division we can think of. If you carry on arguing that "god is concept x" you are totally making god into that concept - just an object.

I know i don't beleive in any of religion, and have no right to say anything about it, but... please consider it anyway ；）

I don`t believe in a "religion" as much as I believe in the "truth". I don`t think that trinity drawing objectifies God as a statue does but I think they were just trying better illustrate it to people so they would perhaps comprehend it better. I think when people see a statue they worship the actual Statue as a god versus the god that they actually wanted to illustrate. Thats what I have against the catholic religion as they carry lucky charms with them and say that they are the ones protecting them (from what I understand anyways).

yeah, sorry, that wasn't aimed at you or the trinity, particularly. I don't think it's making conceptual distinctions itself that is the problem - after all, that's entirely what language does / is for. It's the sticking to it and saying "this is god", "these are properties of god". If you know it's a way of understanding, it doesn't make a difference. But, rigidly sticking to that conception and telling other people that their conception is the wrong one is objectifying god in that way, i think. hehe, am i making sense?
In that way, it could even be fine to worship a statue, as long as the qualitative meaning is the same, i think, according to the bible.

it that that makes sense, if that makes sense hah as for me... i prefer to go without the statues...