I would like a Japanese forum. I feel that coming here and chatting in English is a waste of good time that I could use being immersed in Japanese. I usually feel guilty when I do, so only come about once a month. Please vote in the poll below, so if you guys feel the same way, maybe one can be made.

Note: There are many ways to implement it, but lets worry about that if there is enough interest to warrant it.

http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/708656-212839

I think it would be really useful. I know sometimes, we have threads pop up in Japanese, but having a more structured way of doing it would be much better I think.

Wouldn't it make more sense to practice your Japanese on somewhere like Lang8 that has the necessary framework and native speakers?

I just made a thread sort of related to this called Japanese Practice.
wccrawford, could you elaborate about what Lang8 is? I think that would help answer my question as well.

I agreee with wccrawford. I don't think there's enough native or highly proficient speakers on here to justify it.

Despite best intentions most users japanese posts would be littered with errors that others would then risk picking up and using as if correct. Reading mangled japanese is probably not the best way to learn.

Would people really post in it? People rarely post in the Japanese topics we've already got floating around. I don't think there are enough people that can and will post in Japanese, not enough native speakers to post and correct, and I'm not the only one reluctant to read non-native posts filled with mistakes.

There are plenty of places, e.g., as already mentioned lang8 to find true natives. Reading non-native material is typically painful to consume and can lead to confusion. Anyone read sentences from the tanaka corpus? Ouch.

wccrawford Wrote:Wouldn't it make more sense to practice your Japanese on somewhere like Lang8 that has the necessary framework and native speakers?

This is not really the point. The question is is it better or worse to talk about studying techniques and the Japanese language in Japanese or English? It's not a perfect situation to be talking with non-native speakers, but it's IMO better than using and reading no Japanese. Immersion is not about having 'Japanese time' every day, it is about doing everything possible in Japanese.

All decent language classes operate on a similar principle. It may be less slower to have classes all in L2, but teaching in L1 is ultimately even less effective

Rooboy Wrote:I agreee with wccrawford. I don't think there's enough native or highly proficient speakers on here to justify it.

Despite best intentions most users japanese posts would be littered with errors that others would then risk picking up and using as if correct. Reading mangled japanese is probably not the best way to learn.

You would be surprised how many there are. Once you get good and get your study routines worked out, especially with the lack of a Japanese forum, there isn't that much reason to come here.

My idea is that unless you specifically opt out, or create a thread that opts out, your errors are considered fair game. Errors will be fixed and if these are errors that you don't notice, then you will learn not to make them.

If you are doing immersion, then a small amount of errors from non-natives shouldn't have an effect. Also, you should be able to pick them out easily.

yukamina Wrote:Would people really post in it? People rarely post in the Japanese topics we've already got floating around. I don't think there are enough people that can and will post in Japanese, not enough native speakers to post and correct, and I'm not the only one reluctant to read non-native posts filled with mistakes.

This is arguable I agree. The Japanese thread was originally created as a gauge of interest, however, it has become a mess of multiple conversations. No one can really participate now without reading back and even if you post it probably won't be noticed. It filling the 1st page took 1 week, the 2nd about 1 month, the 3rd about 4 months.

I think this shows there is real interest, however a single thread is no substitute for a forum.

Non-native speakers can correct.

IceCream Wrote:The only problem is you can't search in Japanese on this forum, which makes it difficult to find threads sometimes.

In Google, do "site:forum.koohii.com [insert search query]" to search the forums. It's my go-to search method.

brianobush Wrote:There are plenty of places, e.g., as already mentioned lang8 to find true natives. Reading non-native material is typically painful to consume and can lead to confusion. Anyone read sentences from the tanaka corpus? Ouch.

Having a Japanese forum may attract more native speakers. Like I said here it would be great if we could have something a bit like a forum exchange, where we would have a Japanese version of this forum for Japanese people learning English. We could share info, study techniques, resources, etc.

Smackle Wrote:

IceCream Wrote:The only problem is you can't search in Japanese on this forum, which makes it difficult to find threads sometimes.

In Google, do "site:forum.koohii.com [insert search query]" to search the forums. It's my go-to search method.

You just solved my long standing problem in one line.

I voted I would not use it, though that is not a vote against its implement. The poll is of course going to be skewed heavily to the yes vote. If the thread title sounds interesting, it will be read both those motivated by that topic. It is like the FOX News polls asking how Obama is doing as President. Stalin got higher approval ratings from those viewers. I also voted twice to see what would happen and it allowed me to do so. Not that anyone would have any reason to tilt the results one way or another on this question.
I have never bothered with the Japanese only threads. Japanese is confusing enough for me without having to sift through non-native errors. I try to get only native input from sources with good grammar and spelling. I prefer news outlets and shun J-Pop.

I guess the purpose of the poll isn't to see the proportion of yes responses, but rather to count how many members want it, i.e., it's the absolute number that counts. As IceCream said, no one would force you to use the forum, and you can always ignore it. So if you don't want to read non-native Japanese, I think it means nothing when it comes to the necessity of the new forum. If many people want it, I think it's worth considering. And you're not a jerk who votes multiple times on purpose, are you? Everyone knows a forum created by a skewed poll result is going to fail miserably.

That said, looking at the number of posts in the existing Japanese threads, I'm not sure if there is enough demand for it. I thought bombpersons' idea was great though.

magamo Wrote:And you're not a jerk who votes multiple times on purpose, are you?

Hmm... I guess I am. It was for the purpose of seeing how reliable the results were using that website for gathering opinions. It looks to be the same poll that had Kerry winning on the eve of the 2004 presidential election. Use your computer's calculator the see the true results by subtracting one no vote

How about posting in the japanese thread more for starters. Yeesh

I voted yes (Even though I never really post here anyway)
But I also quite like bombpersons idea... a lot.

Lang-8 is great, but in my own experience it really does suck at one thing in particular; I haven't had any proper "discussions" on there.

You just post up a journal, get god knows how many different corrections and opinions on what you could change, and then if you do reply to the people that corrected you, you have to just hope they check back again.
In my opinion that's lang-8's biggest weakness. Sure I can get good at telling the world about what I did during the day, but it doesn't help me train my ability to think of responses, counter-arguments etc.

With a forum at least some kind of on-going discussion can be created for anybody to join in, where so much more can be said and discussed.
And sure, there is a Japanese thread, but unless everybody is talking about the same thing 1 thread would get pretty hectic, which is actually why I never use forum threads which are "dedicated" to one large area.

Anyway, the point is I voted yes.
*Crawls back under rock*

I really don't get why anyone would oppose to a Japanese forum. If you're afraid you're Japanese is too mediocre to post to a Japanese forum, don't post. If you're afraid you'll eyes would explode due to being exposed to awful Japanese, don't read the forum.

IMHO, the situation is this:

If there is a Japanese forum and you don't want to use it, you can choose not to.

If there is no Japanese forum and you want to a Japanese forum (here), you're screwed.

People who want a Japanese forum won't force anyone else to use it. I don't get why people who are not interested in having a Japanese forum here should prevent other people from having it.

I think the thread was titled wrong and so is contributing to the confusion. The question in the poll is:
How interested are you in a Japanese forum on kanji.koohii.com ?
I would use one.
I don't have time/am not good enough right now, but would use one in the future.
I wouldn't use one.
No one opposes it. Why would they?

I don't quite understand the point of the question unless the original poster is planning on sponsoring ファブリス hours on the computer to create a whole new forum (in Japanese?). Maybe a user wants to create another website forum and link it to this one? It sounds like a lot of work considering no one uses the Japanese only threads now.

bodhisamaya Wrote:I think the thread was titled wrong and so is contributing to the confusion. The question in the poll is:
How interested are you in a Japanese forum on kanji.koohii.com ?
I would use one.
I don't have time/am not good enough right now, but would use one in the future.
I wouldn't use one.
No one opposes it. Why would they?

I don't quite understand the point of the question unless the original poster is planning on sponsoring ファブリス hours on the computer to create a whole new forum (in Japanese?). Maybe a user wants to create another website forum and link it to this one? It sounds like a lot of work considering no one uses the Japanese only threads now.

A few points:

The poll is restricted to one vote per IP address, however most people have an IP address that changes each time they connect to the internet. There are further methods you can take to stop people from voting multiple times, but essentially it is impossible. Those that really want to do it can do it very easily. So we are operating on the trust system.

I tried to make it as fair as possible. No can vote for or against it, just say if it is something that interests them. I deliberately didn't make a 'there isn't a need for one need one' or 'we shouldn't have one' option since it is harder to chose in the negative, as you are choosing not just for yourself but for other people. If it can be made better please explain how and I will consider making a new one.

I don't think it would take Fabrice very long. Likely he just goes to the administrator section of the forum and adds it, done. I am happy to write forum guide lines. Anyway, I don't want this to become a 'You should make a Japanese forum thing' to Fabrice. Just show that there are a number of people who would use it (if there in fact are).

There is nothing wrong with the questions in the poll. Some are getting confused on this thread equating a no vote to saying the forum shouldn't exist. I have no idea how difficult it would be to add a side forum. I assumed it would take a while to create, not being tech savvy myself, but maybe it wouldn't. If it doesn't become reality, maybe this could become a "best Japanese forums to belong to" thread.

From my experience with forum software, it's as easy as logging in and typing in the new name and description for the forum and clicking a button, it's very simple.

I wouldn't really be interested. I think too many beginners would go to it to see Japanese and might instead see the equivalent of china-town English. If you want to practice your Japanese, go post on a real Japanese forum. When they make fun of your mistakes, it'll really make you think about it next time you're about to screw up again.

sethg Wrote:I wouldn't really be interested. I think too many beginners would go to it to see Japanese and might instead see the equivalent of china-town English. If you want to practice your Japanese, go post on a real Japanese forum. When they make fun of your mistakes, it'll really make you think about it next time you're about to screw up again.

We could fix that though. If you made the forums, and then posted a few uh.. "ads" on lang-8 or 2chan I'm sure we could attract a good few native speakers.

Perhaps if you are posting in the Japanese forums, you could make a small comment at the end of your post like "Not a native speaker, don't sentence mine my posts!" or something to make sure that you don't accidentally learn bad Japanese. Or perhaps we could bring back signatures and put it in there?

[ファブリス]

I'm not against a Japanese only subforum but I don't see very much interest for it.

There is a topic that was made for that purpose, and I think I already said before that if there was enough interest I could create the sub forum. Nobody uses that topic.

Also nobody is prevented from creating japanese only topics. I don't think anyone will complain here.

Again, if there are enough of these, a Japanese only sub forum will be a logical evolution.

sethg Wrote:If you want to practice your Japanese, go post on a real Japanese forum.

Do you know one other than 2ch? 'cause I sure don't.

If we could attract some Japanese people like bombpersons suggests, then I think I'd be more interested. I like forums and lang8 isn't a forum; I can't discus language learning or anything there.