activeaero Wrote:Thanks for the updates. I'm up to about 64% of 10級 after 4 days which is nice. I know the pace will drop off rapidly as the levels progress but I'm hoping I can increase one level per month, at least until the upper-intermediate levels. Seems doable as that will only require 3% per day.

I've sort of done some rough calculations of how many hours it would take to complete certain levels. I think it worked out to be like 5 hours total for 10級 and crept up to about 15 hours for 8級?

1 level per month is definitely do-able. It depends largely on you're vocab how quick you can get a passing grade on a level I think.

What study have you done so far? I'm just trying to gauge where you're at.

mezbup Wrote:I've sort of done some rough calculations of how many hours it would take to complete certain levels. I think it worked out to be like 5 hours total for 10級 and crept up to about 15 hours for 8級?

1 level per month is definitely do-able. It depends largely on you're vocab how quick you can get a passing grade on a level I think.

What study have you done so far? I'm just trying to gauge where you're at.

I'm about 70% of the way through KO 2001. Should have it finished around January at my current rate, though once I graduate in a few weeks the pace should pick back up considerably.

Oh ok. You shouldn't have to many problems working up to around about level 8 - 7 then. Christ at the rate im going i'm going up a level a week! I've just hit 49% of 8級. Kinda itching to get onto 7級 though.

Minor update: I'm now at 74% of 8級. Pretty much by monday I'll have knocked the bastard off and be working my way through 7級.

37.5hrs and 11637 questions later... I feel a little smarter.

I tried 7級 again because I was getting a little bored with 8級 due to the progress feeling a little slow. Last time I tried It I got 88/200, this time I faired slightly better with 105/200. Still... need 140 to pass on this level and it uses some really freakin' obscure vocab like "meeting of like minded individuals" and stuff that I just have not seen before. So 7級 should teach me some very interesting things.

I'm starting to hit a small snag with it due to the compounds questions which are quite tricky and will require Anki's help with those. Second of all there's a small section which asks if a reading is On or Kun... I've never studied this specifically so it's giving me some trouble but the kanji sense I have developed means I do better than just pure guessing so I'm confident and I can work through it

Again I think 7級 may have 50 practice tests but It could be slightly more however I can definitely see that this is the point where the progress starts to get slow but steady.

My kanji sense is tingling!

I'm still not up to passing 10 yet, and I've been lazy, but it's coming along.

At what point do you think you'd have to be in KanKen3 that you could read the easiest mangas/books that only have Kanji for some of the words? That's my current goal.

If an example is needed, how about the first Harry Potter book?

wccrawford Wrote:At what point do you think you'd have to be in KanKen3 that you could read the easiest mangas/books that only have Kanji for some of the words? That's my current goal.

If an example is needed, how about the first Harry Potter book?

I don't really think it relates to kanken level tbh. I say that because real native material is not written according to kanken levels it's written according to what words the author chooses which could contain mostly stuff from 10/9/8 and then have 3 and 2 level words strewn throughout.

If you want to read, start reading!

I read stuff that's 100% furigana all the time. But reading stuff that doesn't have enough furigana is too painful. It's not fun. Once I have the skills to read it, it'll be fun and I'll start doing that.

Perhaps start with stuff that's online so you can just mouse over with rikaichan? I find reading isn't so much of a chore that way. Or playing video games because it's fun playing the game so looking stuff up isn't a pain.

The more you can read, the easier KanKen will get. It sorta works the other way around too but realistically, the more you can read the easier it will be to do kanken. Hence why as it gets into higher levels where I don't know the vocab it's getting harder to progress through.

mezbup Wrote:Minor update: I'm now at 74% of 8級. Pretty much by monday I'll have knocked the bastard off and be working my way through 7級.

37.5hrs and 11637 questions later... I feel a little smarter.
...

Interesting. I checked my Kanji to Kotoba Anki deck and realized I've spent a similar time reviewing that to what you have doing KanKenDS. 36.72hrs, 11969 questions.

KtoK covers pretty much all the kanji & compounds on JLPT2, so somewhere between KanKen 5 & 4 (though there are probably compounds on KanKen that aren't on JLPT).

So maybe... Anki & KtoK maybe seems more productive? Though, I did have to spend time entering it all into Anki.

vosmiura Wrote:

mezbup Wrote:Minor update: I'm now at 74% of 8級. Pretty much by monday I'll have knocked the bastard off and be working my way through 7級.

37.5hrs and 11637 questions later... I feel a little smarter.
...

Interesting. I checked my Kanji to Kotoba Anki deck and realized I've spent a similar time reviewing that to what you have doing KanKenDS. 36.72hrs, 11969 questions.

KtoK covers pretty much all the kanji & compounds on JLPT2, so somewhere between KanKen 5 & 4 (though there are probably compounds on KanKen that aren't on JLPT).

So maybe... Anki & KtoK maybe seems more productive? Though, I did have to spend time entering it all into Anki.

Interesting. I don't think i've heard of KtoK before? Can you elaborate a bit more on it? Sounds good for JLPT2 study but probably not sufficient for KanKen study owing to the miriad of different types of things you have to know for KanKen. Definitely interesting to see that our numbers match up very evenly though!

Minor update again: I got bored at my family get together (twice) so I cranked out 2 games of kanken and i'm up to 82% now Feeling very close to the end of this level. Still only passing in the high 140's... for some reason I just always get 1 - 5 questions wrong!

wccrawford Wrote:At what point do you think you'd have to be in KanKen3 that you could read the easiest mangas/books that only have Kanji for some of the words? That's my current goal.

If an example is needed, how about the first Harry Potter book?

Not exactly the answer you were looking for, but I just dumped the text of HP1 in Anki:

1601 total unique kanji.
Old Jouyou: 1389 of 1945 (71.4%).
New Jouyou: 78 of 191 (40.8%).
Jinmeiyou (reg): 72 of 645 (11.2%).
Jinmeiyou (var): 0 of 145 (0.0%).
62 non-jouyou kanji.
Jouyou levels:
Grade 1: 79 of 80 (98.8%).
Grade 2: 150 of 160 (93.8%).
Grade 3: 188 of 200 (94.0%).
Grade 4: 170 of 200 (85.0%).
Grade 5: 152 of 185 (82.2%).
Grade 6: 145 of 181 (80.1%).
JuniorHS: 505 of 939 (53.8%).

Seen
Grade 1
一右雨円王音下火花貝学気休玉金九空月犬見五口校左三山四子糸字耳七車手十出女小上森人水正生青石赤先千川早草足村大男竹中虫町天田土二日入年白八百文本名木目夕立力六
Grade 2
引羽雲園遠黄何夏家科歌画会回海絵外角楽活間丸岩顔帰汽記弓牛魚強教近兄形計元原言古戸午後語交光公工広考行高合国黒今才細作算姉市思止紙時自室社弱首週書少場色食心新親図数星晴声切雪線船前組走多太体台谷知地茶昼朝長鳥直通弟店点電冬刀当答頭同道読内肉馬買売麦半番父風分聞米歩母方妹毎万明鳴毛門夜野矢友曜用来理話
Grade 3
悪安暗意医育員飲院運駅横屋温荷界開階寒感漢館岸期起客宮急球究級去橋業局曲銀苦具君係軽決血研庫湖向幸港号根祭坂皿仕使始指死歯事持次式実写者主取守酒受州拾終習集住重宿所暑助勝消章乗植深申真神身進世整昔全想相送息速族他打対待代第題炭短談着柱注丁帳調追定庭笛鉄転登都度島投湯等豆動波配倍箱畑発反板悲皮美鼻筆氷表病秒品負部服福物平返勉放味命面問役薬有由遊予様洋羊葉陽落流旅両緑礼列練路和
Grade 4
愛案以位囲胃衣印栄英加果貨芽改害街各覚完官管観関願喜器希旗機紀議救求泣挙漁競共鏡極訓軍型景芸欠結建験固功好告差最材昨察札殺参散産残司史士氏試治辞失借種周祝順初唱松焼照省笑象賞信臣成静席積折節説戦浅選然争側束続卒帯隊達単置仲貯低停底的伝徒努灯働堂得特毒熱念敗博費飛必標不付夫副粉兵別変辺便包法望牧末満未無約勇要養利陸料良量輪類令例冷歴連労老録
Grade 5
易移営永衛液益演往応恩価可過解快格確額刊幹慣眼基寄規技義逆久旧居許境興禁句群経件検険減現限個故護効厚構耕講混査再妻採際在罪財雑賛師支枝飼似示識質舎謝授修術述準承招証常情状織職制勢性精製績責接設絶舌素総像増造則測属損態貸退団断張提程敵適統銅独任燃能破判犯比非備貧婦布武復複編弁保墓報豊暴防務夢迷余預容率留領
Grade 6
異映延沿我灰閣革割株巻干看簡危揮机貴疑吸供胸勤筋敬系警劇激穴権絹厳源呼己誤紅鋼降刻骨困砂座策冊姿私視射捨尺若樹収就衆従縦縮純処諸除傷将障城蒸針仁垂推寸盛聖誠宣専洗染善創層窓装臓蔵存尊宅担探誕暖段値宙忠著潮痛糖討届難乳認納脳派拝背晩否秘腹奮並閉片補暮宝訪亡忘棒枚幕密盟模訳優郵欲翌乱卵覧裏律論
JuniorHS
哀握扱依偉威慰違井逸稲陰隠渦影鋭越閲炎煙縁鉛汚奥押殴憶穏嫁暇架稼華菓餓介塊壊怪悔懐戒皆垣核獲穫隔掛喝括滑刈乾冠勘勧喚堪寛換敢歓汗甘監緩缶肝貫閑陥含頑企奇祈輝飢騎鬼儀犠菊吉詰却脚丘及窮巨拠叫恐挟況狂狭脅響驚仰凝琴緊襟吟駆愚偶遇隅屈掘靴繰勲傾恵憩掲渓継蛍鶏迎撃兼剣堅嫌懸肩賢遣幻玄枯誇互御悟孔慌抗控攻更洪甲硬絞綱荒拷獄腰込婚恨懇魂鎖催歳砕載剤削索擦傘惨桟伺刺紫肢執湿漆疾芝赦斜煮蛇邪爵狩珠趣囚秀臭襲醜充柔汁渋獣銃瞬潤盾巡緒徐償召床彰昇渉焦症称紹肖衝詳鐘丈冗嬢畳譲醸錠飾触辱伸侵唇寝審慎振浸薪診辛震尋尽陣吹粋衰遂酔崇澄瀬是姓征牲誓請斉跡占栓潜旋繊鮮措礎粗阻僧双壮捜掃燥葬霜騒憎贈促即耐替滞袋卓濯奪脱棚淡端胆弾恥痴致遅畜蓄窒駐彫眺聴超跳沈珍津墜漬釣抵締訂泥摘滴添殿吐塗渡途奴怒倒凍塔桃棟盗筒到踏逃透闘胴督突豚曇鈍縄軟如忍寧猫粘悩濃婆杯輩伯拍泊薄迫漠爆縛肌髪罰抜繁販盤蛮卑彼扉疲避尾微匹漂描賓頻瓶怖敷普浮符腐膚侮舞封伏幅覆払沸噴紛雰塀幣柄壁捕簿崩抱泡砲縫褒飽乏坊妨帽忙冒膨僕墨没翻磨魔麻埋慢漫魅妙眠霧娘銘滅免茂猛網黙戻紋厄躍柳愉唯幽悠憂裕誘雄与誉揚揺溶踊抑翼頼雷絡離粒隆竜慮虜了寮涼隣涙累励零霊齢暦劣烈裂錬炉廊漏郎惑枠腕
New Jouyou
挨宛闇椅畏唄餌艶臆俺牙崖蓋骸顎亀駒串熊稽拳鍵股乞喉頃痕沙采柵拶叱呪蹴拭尻芯裾戚脊煎詮捉袖汰唾誰旦椎爪鶴貼妬賭藤瞳頓那謎鍋匂虹剥眉膝肘頬枕蜜湧妖嵐脇嗅嘲璧籠貪
Jinmeiyou (reg)
兎兜卿叉喧喋嘩噂坦堵嬉尖巴廻挽揃晃杖柊栗梢梶楓槍槌樫樽檀淵淋溜漕濡焚牽狼珀琥甥磐秤粥糊紐綴縞耽聡肋胡舵苔蒼蔦蝶跨蹄轟這釘釜錆錫鎧閃閏雛霞鞄馳鷲鷹

Non-Jouyou
渾梳樅囁痺吊鈎讐箒愕唖嘘欝吠攣曰眩掴呆褪爬咳嘴炸掻閻軋脾牢埃賂癇釆棍屍蝋筍狐唸奢悸痙艘噛芻呟狡罠轢叩絨癪毯鍮蛙獰椒孵髷猾鉾鍾

All the books:

2668 total unique kanji.
Old Jouyou: 1828 of 1945 (94.0%).
New Jouyou: 153 of 191 (80.1%).
Jinmeiyou (reg): 288 of 645 (44.7%).
Jinmeiyou (var): 2 of 145 (1.4%).
397 non-jouyou kanji.
Jouyou levels:
Grade 1: 80 of 80 (100.0%).
Grade 2: 159 of 160 (99.4%).
Grade 3: 199 of 200 (99.5%).
Grade 4: 198 of 200 (99.0%).
Grade 5: 184 of 185 (99.5%).
Grade 6: 174 of 181 (96.1%).
JuniorHS: 834 of 939 (88.8%).

Interesting numbers... It covers more than I would have thought. Too bad it can't tell which had furigana and which didn't, though I guess I could assume they'll draw the line at one of the grade levels. I just have to figure out which level.

Well I've spent quite a while on KanKen today and have bumped it up to 84% of 8級.

I took a test just before and I got every question right... except, In my hastiness I wrote け instead of げ knowing that げ was correct and fully intending to write it but being to hasty to push OK it registered け instead and on a technicality I got it wrong obviously.

So although the score came back as 148 I knew in my heart it was my first 150/150 but it was kind of a bitter sweet victory. At any rate I should finish up 8級 tomorrow at this rate!

I definitely notice my confidence at taking 8級 has increased big time. Specifically all the stuff that was new to me on 8級 has now become pretty much second nature.

As a side note, perhaps it would be of benefit at some point (when i've got the time) to go through the little side sections and learn the animal names, plant names, place names and so forth? I seem to picking up the names of animals alright although I mostly only know them in Katakana with the exception of maybe one or two. Plants and trees = fail and place names = Slowllllly learning the major ones through exposure.

@Mezbup - Hey, I am really interested in what you are doing. It seems like a really fun way of learning, in addition to srs obviously. I do have one question though, do you feel that it is improving your Japanese in general or just your ability to pass the KanKan tests?

I know that being able to pass a test and being proficient are two different things, I acknowlege that you have a certain proficiency in order to even attempt the tests though

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=20...1254098232

Woot! Just got my first bona-fide 150/150 on 8級! and i've now seen 90% of the whole level so i'll definitely finish it up today and be one to 7級 tomoz.

WeTsTICK Wrote:@Mezbup - Hey, I am really interested in what you are doing. It seems like a really fun way of learning, in addition to srs obviously. I do have one question though, do you feel that it is improving your Japanese in general or just your ability to pass the KanKan tests?

I know that being able to pass a test and being proficient are two different things, I acknowlege that you have a certain proficiency in order to even attempt the tests though

Well that's an interesting question. I've discovered two things really. One is that it drastically improves my ability to pass the KanKen but... only by also improving my real world ability. Without the ability you can't pass the tests. So yeah in a way it definitely does improve your real world ability, certainly in terms of vocab it's taught me quite a bit and being able to write words from memory no sweat which is the main reason I kinda started in the first place.

As it goes up levels you get tested on more and more and so I'm sure it will fill out my knowledge more and more. For example 7級 asks whether a reading is on or kun which I haven't studied at all. It has it's limitations in increasing your real world ability somewhat but A: it's a lot of fun B: you definitely will learn something I gaurantee and C: It'll help you pass the real kanken exams which could look very good on your resume.

Does that answer your question?

mezbup Wrote:Interesting. I don't think i've heard of KtoK before? Can you elaborate a bit more on it?

I'm referring to this book. http://books.google.com/books?id=6trVHpW...q=&f=false

It orders the kanji by on-yomi groups and gives example sentences for pretty much all the compounds on JLPT2. What I did was study all sentences that had compounds or uses that were new to me with Anki.

Ah ok. It's more for JLPT study like it says.

Well... I've pretty much done all of 8級 by now. The easy stuff is over and I just have to bite the bullet and leap into intermediate territory. I'm probably going to need to use the drill feature on maybe the on-kun section and the compounds section to get up to speed on those and then power through some tests. It all starts tomoz.

So far i've been at it for about 41 hours... I've knocked out 3 entire levels. It leaves me wondering how far I will get in the next 40 hours. I'm guessing through 7級 and working on 6級? If that's the case i'd be absolutely stoked! Progress curves tend to be a bitch though and I definitely feel that it's all uphill from here.

I'll post tomoz and report if my score starts improving on 7級.

Yeh I think that answers my question mate, thanks. I'm really interested in taking the KanKen, like you said it's something for the old resume. I'll start playing with it once i've finished Tai Kim and KO2001. I agree the games, whilst not perfect are a fun way of learning without really thinking about it.

WeTsTICK Wrote:Yeh I think that answers my question mate, thanks. I'm really interested in taking the KanKen, like you said it's something for the old resume. I'll start playing with it once i've finished Tai Kim and KO2001. I agree the games, whilst not perfect are a fun way of learning without really thinking about it.

You know, it's absolutely gob-smacking how much it improves you're real world ability to write whole words from memory without even thinking about it them for a second. Definitely, finish up those two first and then KanKen DS3 on the side will have you writing like a pro in no time.

I took 7級 just before and score in the mid 120's this time you need 140/200 to pass. I'm starting to see which things in 7級 get repeated on a common basis and my ability at the compound sections is improving so overall i'm starting to feel positive that I'll get a passing score sooner rather than later.

The hardest thing in 7級 is actually the opposites section. It's practically murder and SRS is the only way I'm going to beat it. If I were a native, it would be easy. I just don't know enough about the language to be able to say what the opposite to a complex word is. Luckily it's a small section. Nothing Anki won't fix.

So if you come across something in the game that you are struggling with you just whack it into Anki?

WeTsTICK Wrote:So if you come across something in the game that you are struggling with you just whack it into Anki?

So far I haven't needed to but in hindsight what I would do now is SRS every new word that KanKen teaches me so I don't loose it. I've found that doing each level gives me sufficient review for the words in that level but alas, when you're not doing that level anymore you get no review of them. I could just do 1 or 2 practice tests for those levels when I wanna review that stuff but it wouldn't exactly be sufficient. I think it's not super important if you just want to pass the kanken though because 1 month before the test just do the level you're going for every day and boom, you'll pass.

I'm going to have to use Anki for some of the really tricky stuff now though, yes. I don't want a huge Anki deck for this though. Anki may make it feel like a chore and that's not what I want so i'll use it sparingly and see how I go. If I didn't have so much other study on my plate I definitely would have made a deck from the start and entered every new word I came across.

How you use it is up to you. I'm interested to know other peoples methods and results with this.

I've taken a few more 7級s today. I did some review on mykanken for the first reading section and i'm starting to pick up on the rest of the sections alright. Except the last one. It's a real bastard.

I noticed they have sections like homophones or same kanji but testing different readings and stuff. This goes backwards and fowards from reading and writing. The last section though is really hard words xD It's giving me a lot of shit...

I've seen roughly 10% or so from this level so far and my score has climbed up to around the 130 mark. Still short of a passing grade by 10 - 15 points and a far from satisfying grade for sure.

I'll keep going as I'm going for a while and may try the drill feature on certain sections to see how useful it can be in upping my score by section.

At any rate i'll be passing 7級 by the time the week is out Working up to getting around 185 - 190 every time will take a lot of work.

Hello there,

nice to meet a kanken addict like me.

To tell you a bit about me, I did the real kanken exam in Paris last sunday. It was 7級. It was a lot of fun. I was the only White guy in the building. All the other were kids and their parents.

I'm pretty sure, i passed since I never had any trouble with kanken DS at that level.

6級 is way way more difficult. There're two parts that give me a headache. In the first one, you need to know all the keys that make the kanjis by NAME (there're 214 of them !!)
The second one, I need to read the instruction because i didn't even get what i was about lol.

5級 : you need to know the 4 kanji sentences !!!

Don't even want to think about the 4級...

deedo Wrote:H
6級 is way way more difficult. There're two parts that give me a headache. In the first one, you need to know all the keys that make the kanjis by NAME (there're 214 of them !!)
The second one, I need to read the instruction because i didn't even get what i was about lol.

Is that the section about classifying compound words?