I hate to start a large thread on whether or not it’s socially acceptable to learn a language for the sole purpose of __x__ but I was unable to find a real discussion about this. This thread is kind of a mixture of reasons for learning Japanese and my questions about what the expectations should be.

Before I start, let me just get two quick completely unrelated questions out of the way:

1. What is the significance (if any) of a Japanese person on a comedy show taking black makeup and smearing it all around their mouth? I’ve seen various people on different shows do this.
2. What is the significance of a white makeshift bandana that sits on the top of the head? Maybe it has something to do with teaching or learning?

Ok, now that I’ve got those out of the way….

Many sites I’ve visited before mention the reasons why and why not to study a language. With Japanese in particular there seem to be certain answers people can give that immediately set off a creepy/obsessive alarm in people’s heads so their reaction is to condemn learning a language for the sole purpose of a single activity. They deem it unhealthy and will often criticize any person who admits to learning a language for said reason. Obviously the answers people give and the way in which they give them will change people’s initial reaction. What I would like to see are some comments about whether or not certain goals for studying are feasible with only self study. This would allow me (or anyone else) to get a general feeling of the requirement and gauge if it is really worth it. Worst case scenario someone could say, “You’re in for a long road if you only want to do __x__ and nothing else” and maybe they turn out to be right.

Here is a list of all the reasons I have personally ever heard of someone learning this language:

1. Watch J-Drama, movies, or anime with no subtitles
2. Read Manga
3. Watch regular Japanese TV shows such as がき, イッテQ, ダイバスタ etc
4. Read Japanese books
5. Play Japanese video games
6. Experience Japanese Culture
7. Business opportunities
8. Speak to relatives
9. Find love
10. Personal improvement (people tying their self-worth to language accomplishment like this thread)
11. Better chance at getting laid (in Japan or elsewhere)

I know I’m sure I’m missing a bunch of reasons. I combined things and separated things because I feel some are on totally different levels. For example someone can begin reading an easy manga at an early stage but reading a full book with no artwork to accompany the words is whole different level. I think the same can be said when comparing J-Drama or anime to a live show or variety show. A bunch of the J-Drama and anime I’ve seen have very clear pronunciations with nearly perfect microphone positioning and not very much slang (of course there are exceptions). Then you try to watch something like がきの使い and it seems every other word is slang, everyone talks over each other, and the crew never stops speaking machine gun pace, ever.

I am guilty of using only reasons 1, 3, 5, and 10. Emphasis on 5 and 10. Let’s ignore that I mentioned #10 for a moment (yes I know it’s unhealthy). If someone wants to call me out on #5 being unhealthy my argument will be that there are plenty of online co-op and multiplayer games that encourage social interaction (Biohazard 5, Monster Hunter 3, Lost Planet 2, Tales of…, MGS4 etc). #6 is not for me because given the choice between Japan and big home theater equipment, I will choose home theater equipment every single time. I seriously doubt they allow 10 or more inch subwoofers in tiny apartments. Of course no one in their right mind should ever formally explain these out loud to someone with the layout above. Numbers 1 through 5 would be merged into “I am learning Japanese to enjoy new forms of entertainment.” Numbers 9 through 11 would be merged into “expanding your horizons” or some such B.S.

Now to my main question which is what the feasibility is of being able to do some of the things above without needing a dictionary and with only self study. The whole reason I bring this up is because of some things I have seen while watching JustinTV that concern me. I have watched/listened to a sickening amount of Japanese JustinTV and UStream to the point where I know the names most of the semi famous video bloggers and I can usually recognize their voice if they are talking in Skype group chat (even if I can’t understand what they are saying). I’m mostly talking about the stream checker which everyone seems to use right here. A lot of the time they are playing games that I would want to play so I watch intently. What really frustrates me is that I have seen more than 3 separate native Japanese people (or at least appear native) playing games that were intended for a teenager or young adult and they had trouble reading the dialogue out loud. I don’t mean like a 5 second long “hmm”…I mean a full on 45 second long had no idea how to read some kanji and had to ask people in the chat room kind of thing. For all I know that word could have been a crucial part of the sentence. Maybe it’s just something I’m concentrating way too hard on.

TL;DR - What are your thoughts on how far self study can take you to achieve the above goals?

For me it's super hard to describe to people. It's not because of anything per say. It's like asking a mother why she loves her children. She just does.

It just feels right.

Btw, before I get good enough where I can figure out how to say this on my own, how would I say my reasoning I just put in Japanese? Because Japanese people would always ask me this last time I lived in Japan and I feel it will happen again.

Edit: oh and I started studying it when I failed out of college and had to move back in with my parents and start back up again from community college. I was in a frat at my last university and was out of control with partying. I needed something else to focus on. I figured a language would be good, and Japanese was the best funded program out of all the languages at the 4 year university I eventually entered.

After studying for 2 years I went on a trip to Japan. That's when I decided I wanted to make Japan my home. A few years later I got a job in Japan. That's when I really saw how much I liked Japanese. I just neglected to study the language when I was there. Was enjoying wayyyy too much.

You never heard of "I'd like to visit Japan, so I'll study Japanese for a month"?

Consolidate 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 into "I like Japanese culture." Split into popular and traditional culture (or both) if desired.

I've never heard 9, 10, or 11 before.

jacf29, your reason sounds like #10.

It's a myth that Japanese people cannot read Japanese. They can read it just fine and do every day. Just look at Asahi Shimbun or whatever if you need proof.

As for me, I like Japanese popular culture (not traditional). I don't think I can achieve my Japanese-related goals, but I am closer to them than when I started. I don't want to speak with Japanese people. I'd like to be able to experience the various entertainment media.

jcdietz03 Wrote:jacf29, your reason sounds like #10.

It started out as that, but it has evolved into something more. If it were just self improvement I could stay in America and continue with that.

I've asked myself this same question many times. A few years ago I was still in college, and I very distinctly remember the head of my department (Classics) state that his two major regrets in life were not learning a foreign language (not counting ancient Greek and Latin) and not learning to play a musical instrument. I've been playing music for as long as I can remember, but I decided then and there that I would learn a foreign language. But, specifically, why Japanese?

1 - Perceived difficulty of Asian languages.
After two years of hardcore Latin studies, I knew I could handle any grammar thrown at me, so I figured why not take on a language that popular culture has deemed grammatically challenging.

2 - Japanese culture
I'm not a gamer, I don't have any strong feelings about anime or robots, but there are what I refer to as the "3 S's" of Japanese culture that I find pretty cool: Sushi, Samurai, and Sumo. I'm kind of a history buff (and I love sushi) so these aspects of the culture appeal to me.

3 - Economic factor
This is not what it sounds like; I'm aware that Japan is on a socio-economic slippery slope right now. What I mean is that I might be entering the Navy, and there is a nice salary bonus for knowing an extra language. Because there are so few Japanese speakers, the pay raise could be quite comfortable depending on how far I can progress.

4 - Why not?
Believe it or not, this is the main reason I'm doing this. Really. Why not? I want to learn a language, and I find Japanese to be an interesting language. I don't want to live in Japan; I've traveled far and wide and found that I love living in America, specifically San Diego (don't get me wrong, I love traveling, but the U.S. will always be my home). I can't imagine living anywhere else, so this just seems to be purely for intellectual stimulation, some new literature and media outlets, and fun travel opportunities.

I'm glad you asked this question; this is really the first time I've come up with a complete answer (complete as of this moment anyway). I'd love to see some other answers.

I've been asked this multiple times, and I had no answer. Which is a problem. Why the hell am I learning Japanese?

I find it pleasurable not only to learn it, but to put it to use in any and all of the situations you listed above.

I don't need to know Japanese to play Go, practice Aikido or watch Anime. I did not do them that much, but what little I did was pleasurable. However, it was those pleasures that opened up the idea that learning Japanese would be enjoyable. By learning Japanese, the other areas of Japanese culture and life were opened up.

If I had to give one reason I am learning Japanese, the reason would be: because I enjoy anime and manga (and Japanese videogames, to a lesser extent). I'm sure the image of a stereotypical American otaku just flashed into many of your minds. Fortunately, that image has very little in common with me; plus, saying that I'm learning Japanese because of anime is a bit of an oversimplification, so let me elaborate.

I don't have to learn Japanese to watch anime, obviously. I've been watching and keeping up with anime for the last 8 years, and I've only just recently started getting serious about learning Japanese. However, understanding Japanese would obviously open up a lot more movies and series to me, which would be nice, but not nice enough to be a real source of motivation.

I believe that the REAL reason I'm learning Japanese is simply because I want to learn another language. Anime, and such Japanese media, have only given me an excuse and a target language. I think that learning an additional language would, in essence, open up a whole new world to explore. That notion excites me, and is the true source of my motivation. I just have Japanese animation to thank for helping me choose which world to work on opening up.
Although it would be awfully nice to be able to look away from the screen while watching anime and still have a clue what's going on.

Also, a few more reasons that I picked Japanese to learn:

1: It's rare to find an American with no Japanese lineage that understands the Japanese language. In fact, I don't personally know ANYONE that speaks Japanese (I don't even know anyone of Japanese lineage, unfortunately.)

2: It's COMPLETELY different from English.

3: Spoken Japanese sounds beautiful to me.

4: And borrowing from mattimus above, the "perceived difficulty of Asian languages". Easy will bore me. The sense of accomplishing something difficult is enticing.

In reference to beerninja's post, my reasons would fall under 1 through 5, Japanese media, with a huge dose of 10, personal improvement. A lot of folk around me seem to assume that reason 9 and 11 are reasons; they are certainly not. I'm far too much of a loner for either of those. More women = less time for myself.

I don't have as much of that image of the american otaku. 2 good friends of mine in Japanese class learned it because of anime and videogames. Both were black belts. One was still in great shape, good looking, and beautiful girlfriends. The other was a stoner, good looking, and was a pimp with the ladies as well.

And these guys were the biggest nerds ever. Even with all they did they would still watch anime and read manga like must have been 3 hours a day. They talked about nothing but anime and manga. It really blew my mind with these two how they went against the stereotype.

Using your list of reasons above, I'd say I'm in it for number 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 and a bit too much of 10.

Books would be the main reason, I think, followed closely by manga (which are pretty much the same as other books, except easier and with more pretty pictures – I tend to choose manga when I'm tired and just reading for relaxation). Movies/anime and games have been a contributing factor, as well, but lately I've been neglecting them since I just don't have the time.

Though I find the "experience Japanese culture" a bit vague (and partially covered by the reasons above), I would like to go to Japan again at some point, since I grew quite fond of Tokyo. I suppose my interest in budo (no, not grapes) also fits here.

I do tend to tie my self-worth to my progress with Japanese, especially when other aspects of my life aren't going just according to 計画. Of course, this only makes things worse, as a retention rate below ~92% can pretty much ruin my day when I'm in this mood.

Business opportunities, love and sex... I'm pretty sure I'd stand more of a chance in those areas if I didn't spend all my spare time grinding flashcards. Fortunately, "引き籠り" doesn't sound as bad when you can write it in kanji. Maybe.

I'd like to add one more reason, being that RtK got me hooked on kanji to the point where I just keep learning them for the heck of it, regardless of whether they are actually useful.

Why I started studying?

To be quiet honest, I started Japanese as a form of left-over teenage rebellion. After seven years of Latin and three years years of Spanish, I wanted something completely different. It was either Japanese or Chinese, and the sounds of Japanese were easier for me to reproduce.

Why I continue? #4, mostly, and the prospect of studying Japanese lit in grad school.

I've read a lot of Japanese lit in translation, and I'm just now starting to (slowly) read some of the easier stuff in the original. It's funny how silly excited I get when I see some cool thing in the Japanese that just can't be expressed well in English.

Learning a language takes time. That time could have been used/wasted watching tv you don't care about just because it's on. Since starting to learn Japanese, I've basically stopped watching all English tv. After some period of time, I'll have gained decent use of a new language while others will have watched a bunch of seasons of shows that pay no long-term dividends, or sports seasons or whatever. I would argue that following 2-3 full sports seasons each year is much more a waste of time.

In the end, learning Japanese is fun, and that's all anyone needs to know. If asked what's the point, ask what's the point in their doing activity X. No one justifies their hobbies or how they spend their free time and so neither should you.

Of that list you've provided, I can that, at one point in my study or another, I have had every single one as a motivation to learn more Japanese. I started out with less than pure intentions (there were lots of Japanese girls I wanted to meet) and dabbled at best. Even so, it got me started, and with the addition of the other ten and more, I can say that my study has gotten much more intense, useful, and effective.

That said, I'm strong believer in Nietzsche's maxim: "Enough why will survive any how."

There's really no bad reason to learn a language (even spite is a good reason), and the stronger your belief in achieving native level or higher fluency, the better are your chances of achieving it. I'm not just saying this to shoot rainbow's up anyone's ass either, countless psychological studies have proven that hard word and dedication (that is, "grit") are the best indicator of success.

Don't just take my word from it, read "Talent is Overrated" for yourself.

I'm learning Korean, mostly because I'm absolutely addicted to KPOP but I love language-learning in general. I want native-level fluency.

i learn languages because i enjoy the process of learning languages. there's nothing quite as satisfactory as that moment when you realize you now understand something you weren't able to understand a day/week/month ago.
of course i recognize that by learning i get a lot of advantages (access to untranslated entertainment, ability to communicate with a wider audience, access to untranslated information) but those are all secondary to the pleasure of the process.

beerninja Wrote:I What really frustrates me is that I have seen more than 3 separate native Japanese people (or at least appear native) playing games that were intended for a teenager or young adult and they had trouble reading the dialogue out loud. I don’t mean like a 5 second long “hmm”…I mean a full on 45 second long had no idea how to read some kanji and had to ask people in the chat room kind of thing. For all I know that word could have been a crucial part of the sentence. Maybe it’s just something I’m concentrating way too hard on.

There's a good chance that dialog was filled with unnecessarily complicated words... Which means that there is good chance you are concentrating on this way too hard.

The reason I'm learning Japanese is... mmm let me see ... I don't know, just the idea of knowing another language that not everybody knows is enough motivation for me. I'm sort of a show-off and I like it, to know that I'm good at stuff no everybody else is.

The other reason is anime. I'm not ashamed of saying it (why should I? One of the pros of learning english was that I could play games and watch movies on english). I'm not anime crazed, that's for sure, but the idea of me watching the shows I like and understanding everything without having to read the subtitles makes me excited.

The last one if sort of a far fetched fantasy, of my boss entering our office and saying "there is a trip to Japan coming. We need someone who knows Japanese". Far-fetched, I know, but one can dream, right.