I'm pretty damn keen on giving the Kanji Kentei a go. I think it's a really good test and the levels are laid out pretty well.

I haven't found any KanKen decks for Anki and so I was considering making one but realize to do it for all levels would be an absolute mammoth task. That being said to do it for about up to level 7 or so wouldn't be too hard on my own but I was wondering If we could perhaps have a collaborative effort if others are interested in having a good quality KanKen deck.

Interest and ideas wanted.

if its kanji why not use the KO2001 stuff we already have?

Well im open to using available materials but they need to be organized in such a way they can be used to study for the KanKen.

KanKen tests a variety of things from reading and writing to stroke order and even which is the OPPOSITE of a given kanji. Not to mention radical names and other such things. It kinda goes beyond the scope of the materials we currently have. Even if we just put a deck together for the first few levels.

I've been having a dig around on the internet for good resources and basically nothing has turned up. I own a copy of KanKen DS3 which I could just mine the answers I get wrong into Anki until I can pass each grade in succession.

There are some good prep books which are popular in Japan that I've seen for myself which could be used.

Hashiriya Wrote:if its kanji why not use the KO2001 stuff we already have?

One probably couldn't even pass kanken level 10 using just KO.

Kanken level 1 tests about 6000 kanji. The pass rate is something like 10%. Most university educated natives cannot even pass level 2.5 without some targetted studying.

漢字検定をなめんなよ！

Jarvik7 Wrote:

Hashiriya Wrote:if its kanji why not use the KO2001 stuff we already have?

One probably couldn't even pass kanken level 10 using just KO.

Kanken level 1 tests about 6000 kanji. The pass rate is something like 10%. Most university educated natives cannot even pass level 2.5 without some targetted studying.

漢字検定をなめんなよ！

I respectfully disagree.

I can pass Kanken 10 and i've only done 3/4s of KO (I know.. still workin on it!)
I've also met two lovely girls around age 20 who passed kanken 2kyuu.

With a little study I could pass level 9 Ok but it would take a decent amount of study to pass 8 I think. That being said with the right materials and the benefit of having done RTK it could be easily possible to work up to a much higher level in 12 months.

I've been considering taking it too... most likely level 5, given the time frame until the next test. One of my vice principals has been encouraging me to look into it, now that I've passed JLPT 1 and need a new project

I was just going to get the Step books for level 5 and dump the stuff I don't know into Anki as I go along....

I'm focusing solely on JLPT this year but considering studying for kanken over the next 12 months to see how far I can get.

Those step books are they the yellow ones?

mezbup Wrote:I'm pretty damn keen on giving the Kanji Kentei a go. I think it's a really good test and the levels are laid out pretty well.

I haven't found any KanKen decks for Anki and so I was considering making one but realize to do it for all levels would be an absolute mammoth task. That being said to do it for about up to level 7 or so wouldn't be too hard on my own but I was wondering If we could perhaps have a collaborative effort if others are interested in having a good quality KanKen deck.

Interest and ideas wanted.

This spreadsheet has all the kanji with the kanken level.

The STEP books are really good although a lot of the material in there is harder than what you get on the actual test.

mezbup Wrote:I respectfully disagree.

I can pass Kanken 10 and i've only done 3/4s of KO (I know.. still workin on it!)
I've also met two lovely girls around age 20 who passed kanken 2kyuu.

With a little study I could pass level 9 Ok but it would take a decent amount of study to pass 8 I think. That being said with the right materials and the benefit of having done RTK it could be easily possible to work up to a much higher level in 12 months.

Is ko2001 the only thing you've studied?

Your friends with 2kyuu probably studied for the test, or they have abnormally high kanji ability. My point is that ~3kyuu is the highest level most educated natives can get without preparation.

I'm not at all saying that one cannot study for kanken, but ko is not anywhere near sufficient. Even If it was enough to get you level 10, that's the lowest level and meant for 6yr olds.

It might sound a bit outlandish, but wouldn`t it be great if somebody here passed kanken level 1 or at least 準1級? Knowing that many obscure kanji won`t be of any use in real life, but still it would be so cool to pass level 1! Maybe somebody should set an example and prove a foreigner can pass it. Writing a blog about the whole process would be even better and would inspire a whole lot of people for sure.

travis Wrote:

mezbup Wrote:I'm pretty damn keen on giving the Kanji Kentei a go. I think it's a really good test and the levels are laid out pretty well.

I haven't found any KanKen decks for Anki and so I was considering making one but realize to do it for all levels would be an absolute mammoth task. That being said to do it for about up to level 7 or so wouldn't be too hard on my own but I was wondering If we could perhaps have a collaborative effort if others are interested in having a good quality KanKen deck.

Interest and ideas wanted.

This spreadsheet has all the kanji with the kanken level.

Thanks heaps for this link!

I'm in the process of churning out a Kanken 10kyuu deck now. I'm changing things a bit to suit my needs but thus far it'll kinda go like this...

Kanji, Heisig NO., KanKen Grade, Stroke Count, Radical, On / Kun, Meaning

That's all the info that will be on the cards... or available to work with at least. Then in the same deck I'd like to have vocab relevant to the level aswell.

[Katsuo]

mezbup Wrote:I'm in the process of churning out a Kanken 10kyuu deck now. I'm changing things a bit to suit my needs but thus far it'll kinda go like this...

Kanji, Heisig NO., KanKen Grade, Stroke Count, Radical, On / Kun, Meaning

In this post there are links to several spreadsheets I made (including the one travis linked to above). The data you require can be extracted from them.

The spreadsheets marked with a # all have the same numbering system ("Number KANJIDIC"), making it possible to select and match up the bits you need from each.

The easiest method is probably to download all the spreadsheets that contain data you require, open them in Excel or similar, put them in order of the "Number (KANJIDIC)" column, then select the columns from each you need and paste them in a new document (making sure to align them correctly, of course).

ON & kun Readings: Note that KANJIDIC includes many rare readings that are not in the Joyo kanji specification. Kanken levels 10 to 2.5 only test Joyo kanji readings, I believe. So be sure to select your readings columns from the spreadsheet titled "*#Joyo list (Wiki)/readings/changes (proposed for 2010)/ RTK ref nos/ Freq. here"

http://www.renshuu.org has online quizzing and vocab lists for kanken 1.5-10.

It only covers vocab though, which is but one small part of the test.

@katsuo: I wasn't aware that the Joyo list specified readings. Do you have a link to the standard?

Personally I've put off kanken for awhile, although maybe I'll take the easy levels (up to 6 or so) next year. I'm gonna go after a top kyuu /w oral in jbiz first. It's of much more practical use.

Jarvik7 Wrote:

mezbup Wrote:I respectfully disagree.

I can pass Kanken 10 and i've only done 3/4s of KO (I know.. still workin on it!)
I've also met two lovely girls around age 20 who passed kanken 2kyuu.

With a little study I could pass level 9 Ok but it would take a decent amount of study to pass 8 I think. That being said with the right materials and the benefit of having done RTK it could be easily possible to work up to a much higher level in 12 months.

is ko2001 the only thing you've studied?

Your friends with 2kyuu probably studied for the test, or they have abnormally high kanji ability.

I'm not at all saying that one cannot study for kanken, but ko is not anywhere near sufficient. Even If it was enough to get you level 10, that's the lowest level and meant for 6yr olds.

Looking at the sample tests at http://www.kanken.or.jp/frame2/mondai_list.html I can see what he means about being able to pass Kanken 10 with just KO2001. It's more than just knowing Kanji, that's for sure.

For me, Kanken 3 would be like the JLPT 2 though. It's something I'd like to be able to pass without specifically studying for it.

So I got a basic level 10 deck going. I'm going to tweak it a bit tomoz but so far it's looking like this could be a really good thing! The single most time consuming part of the process was adding in the radicals it just took forever but I feel its important. I'm also going to split the readings up into On, Kun, Rare.

I really want to take advantage of Anki's flexibility. By activating or deactivating tags it's possible to do very targeted study within a deck. I used to view decks as just one big thing to be worked through but lately I see how you can take a huge deck with all kinds of different information and really break it up into chunks that can be worked through individually.

Once I've got the format down and I'm happy with it i'll press on and do a few more levels. I guess eventually it'll get all the way to 2kyuu.

[Katsuo]

@Jarvik7 常用漢字表
In the lists linked to under "本表" note that less common readings are distinguished by indentation.
付表 data (bottom of page): I posted digital text here.

mezbup Wrote:The single most time consuming part of the process was adding in the radicals it just took forever but I feel its important

The radical numbers are included in one of the spreadsheets I linked to in another post, above. Did you want the radical itself? OK, I've just modified one of the spreadsheets to include the actual radical along with its number here.

Note, however, that not all sources agree on radical classifications. If you are taking a KanKen test it's best to check one of the texts specifically made for that level.

@Katsuo: You should edit the RTKwiki with a list of your 234230948209 lists.

mezbup Wrote:

Jarvik7 Wrote:

Hashiriya Wrote:if its kanji why not use the KO2001 stuff we already have?

One probably couldn't even pass kanken level 10 using just KO.

I respectfully disagree.

I agree. My daughter age 8 took the level 10 last year and passed. I have the test right here and isn't too hard. You need to know readings for basic kanji like: 犬、左、石、山、etc and are tested both ways - from reading to kanji and vice-versa. However, there is context too since most of the test is short sentences. If you have done KO, then it will be quite easy. I am hoping to start taking them next year as well. My goals will be level 9.

Jarvik7 Wrote:@katsuo: I wasn't aware that the Joyo list specified readings. Do you have a link to the standard?

Here's the government's PDF file:
http://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo/pdf/jyouyou_kanjihyou.pdf

As with the Jouyou list in general, the approved vs. unapproved readings has a certain level of arbitrariness -- there are certain approved readings that are extremely rare and some non-approved readings that are pretty common.

The Kanji Kentei recognizes four levels of readings -- elementary school, middle school, high school, and non-jouyou. The levels are somewhat arbitrary but the high school ones tend to be particularly rare jouyou readings. To find the levels the easiest way is to look at Kanji Kentei preparation books.

For instance, the kanji 上 has the following readings:
Elementary school: ジョウ, うえ、うわ、かみ、あ（げる）、あ（がる）
Middle school: のぼ（せる）, のぼ（す）
High school: ショウ (found in Buddhist terms like 上人)

For non-Jouyou readings, I don't have a jun-1kyuu prep book so I'm not sure exactly what might show up, but the Kanjigen gives たてまつる and ほとり, as well as some additional name readings for the kanji.

Up through level 5 you are only required to know the elementary school readings. For level 4 you have to know all the middle school readings of the elementary school kanji, and starting at level 2 you have to know all the jouyou readings of all the jouyou kanji. Levels 1.5 and 1 require you to know non-jouyou readings as well.

Thank you everyone for all your informative replies and help!

I think what I might do is buy the Step books to help me construct this deck. The info about the elementary, middle, high school and non-jouyou readings is something that can be implemented really well in this deck. If you're only studying for the levels where elementary will be required theres no sense in specifically studying the middle school readings.

Of course we all want to learn everything about Kanji and become Kanji gods but don't forget all the things you pick up just through exposure.

In regards to being able to pass 10kyuu with just having done KO. Well it's fairly simple but i'd like to add this.... if you paid attention in deconstructing every word down to its kanji and getting a feel for the word that way and thus remembered how to write it I'm fairly sure you could pass closer to level 8. Bearing in mind I'm only doing KO to learn to read and not for learning how to write... picking up anything is technically a bonus.

With targeted KanKen study through a good deck I'm sure one could get to a much higher level in a decent time frame. Personally my mid term goal at the moment is to work my way from being really close to passing 9 to being able to pass around about 7 with ease.

Once again thanks for the input and links. I'm going to continue working on this over the course of the next few days and see if I can't come up with something spectacular.. when i'm done i'll try put it on the Anki Shared decks.

Ok so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how the vocab should be implemented. Sentences are what I would really want but I can't get that many good example sentences for every single word. Over on renshuu.org It has kanji in the Kanken order with a list of all the words each kanji appears in which is a great place to get that info. I don't know if it'd just be enough to have the word on its own though...

Can anyone... reverse engineer KanKen DS3 for its example sentences? Anyone?

you can get the sentences from the STEP books for the Kanken exam :-)

How many examples per Kanji?

The STEP books actually have quite a few; they introduce about 10 kanji per "step" (lesson); the first page just gives readings, meanings, and compounds, but then there are about 30 short sentences as exercises for reading, and another 20-30 as exercises for writing (plus assorted other things like 4 character compounds, compound analysis). The sentences tend to be very succinct but very clear in showing a context that the word is used in.

The only potential problem is that the words are often chosen because they're uncommon or unusual, so that they will trip the native speakers up. This isn't a major problem unless the books are your only source of Japanese.

In addition, there are tons of other kanken prep books that have even more sentences in them. You could literally get thousands of sentences just by buying 3 or 4 prep books for a level.

I only have the 2.5 STEP book right now but I'll post a couple of examples later so you can see.