what do you think defines Japanese sense of humour? (If anything) What are the major differences in japanese culture's humour to other culture's humour?

I saw a twitter post on AJATT's site that i thought was interesting today:

Khatsumoto wrote:

# よく「日本のユーモアに皮肉は無い」と外人は言う。けれど、本当は日本語の理解力が、まだ皮肉に気付くレベルに達していないだけなんじゃないの？心の琴線が触れられるには、先ずは琴線自体持たないとね。と、優越感を懷きながら考える僕。10:31 PM Oct 10th from web

I'm not really sure of exactly what kind of 皮肉 Khatsu means here, since 皮肉 seems to cover quite a lot of things, from being contrary to sarcasm to irony. but i think it's an interesting idea. There's definately a lot to be said for this. I mean, you only have to switch on a drama to see it, really. And, if there's a word for it, it exists right?

But what does everyone else think about it? And about Japanese humour in general? And, how much of things that seem serious and heavy should seriously be taken that way?

I was just trying to think of examples when sarcasm was used and I can't really recall that many. I thought of an example from a dub, but since it's not originally Japanese, it's questionable. It's from Powerpuff Girls. Buttercup failed at killing a monster and Blossom said "大成功ね."

I thought of another and wasn't quite sure if it qualifies. It's from the Maison Ikkoku special. I made a recording and here's the script (I bolded the part where he seems to be using sarcasm):

00:16:00,852 --> 00:16:03,737
管理人さんなら出かけたよ。
224
00:16:03,737 --> 00:16:05,203
え…　なんで！？
225
00:16:05,203 --> 00:16:06,904
なんでって言われても…。
226
00:16:06,904 --> 00:16:07,756
どこへ？
227
00:16:07,756 --> 00:16:11,482
どうして私が そんな事知ってんのよ。
228
00:16:11,482 --> 00:16:14,701
すいません…。
229
00:16:14,701 --> 00:16:16,675
ただ…。
230
00:16:16,675 --> 00:16:17,728
ただ…　何？
231
00:16:17,728 --> 00:16:22,728
おしゃれして　いつもより 念入りにお化粧してたなぁ。
232
00:16:23,447 --> 00:16:27,687
男に会いに行ったな ありゃ　間違いない。
233
00:16:27,687 --> 00:16:29,596
またかよ…。
234
00:16:29,596 --> 00:16:33,321
ごめ?ん　ホントの事 言わない方がよかった？
235
00:16:33,321 --> 00:16:38,321
ごめんね 嘘つけない性格だからさ　私。
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00:16:38,719 --> 00:16:43,719
いいえ　ご親切にどうも。
Audio:
http://www.snapvine.com/sb/f9894ee4b8651...30485b0f88

Some background for context: The male speaking is a tenant of an apartment named Godai Yuusaku who's in love with the manager, a young widow. Lately she's been kind of close with a good looking tennis coach and Godai is not liking it :B

Even if this ends up not qualifying as an example of sarcasm, I hope you get enjoyment out the clip

Can anyone confirm, btw?

Oh yeah, I should probably include the girl's reaction too. At first she starts to nod her head triumphantly at his last comment, but then realizes what he really meant. Screenshot here:
http://i36.tinypic.com/2vx3wh5.jpg

Nuriko, I don't really get much of the dialogue it, but it's not uncommon to use polite expressions as a form of sarcasm.

I really can't comment on this sort of thing. I find myself laughing at completely stupid things.
Once, one the train I was observing a fly go about its usual routine flying places. Then it stopped on the ceiling light. From there it decided to clean itself up, by licking its legs and arms, and wings and whatever then does the cool head spin thing. So anyway, since the fly was upside down (not a complete 180 degrees, i'd say 145 degrees since the ceiling light was kinda round) every time it tried to clean itself it kept falling down, since it kept losing its grip. But it kept going back to the same spot to try clean itself. I started laughing on the train, everyone was looking at me. I was trying so hard to not crack up, so it was just a light giggle in pure fascination at how brainless this creature is.

Seems pretty much the same too me. I mean from what my experiences from japanese people. Obviously we don't have Manzai and all but still, I guess its cornier in japan sometimes.

One of my teachers in Japan frequently made sarcastic remarks while at the same time stating she was some kind of exception. Apparently, there are quite a few teachers who would take her seriously.

That being said, I love Japanese comedy.

IceCream Wrote:And, if there's a word for it, it exists right?

"Jackalope".

Or to use a more self-referential example, "utopia".

My limited experience is that irony/sarcasm is used less frequently than in my English/American cultural experience, but I can't begin to imagine where the idea that it doesn't show up at all in Japanese culture came from. If I had to hazard a guess it might be that the reduced frequency, if in fact true, takes it below the threshold where subtle irony is easily picked up on.

~J

IceCream Wrote:don't think i've watched any manzai. Any good recommendations? The only real comedy i've watched is some of the playlist of that guy that Evil Dragon recommended me

. haha theres some really funny stuff here. Not sure what type of humour you classify it as though...

Jinnai is pretty unique as (in my experience) in Manzai there's usually two or sometimes more people performing together with one guy telling silly jokes (ボケ, e.g. Matsumoto Hitoshi) and the second guy getting angry (ツッコミ, e.g. Hamada Masatoshi), often accompanied by slapping the first guys head.
Jinnai is a ツッコミ comedian who performs alone if you will.

As for recommendations, I like (among others) Downtown, Tokyo03 and Unjash

I, too, have noticed there isn't as much sarcasm in japanese comedy as american/british comedy. I'm open to the possibility that my japanese abilities are not that great and so I am missing stuff. That only makes me want to watch more comedy so I'll understand every little thing.

Shows I like:
Bakushou Red Theater is mostly コント (short skits). Check out the recent Bakushou Red Theater 20090923 2.5-hour Special, theres a 突っ込み contest.

Bakushou Red Carpet is mostly 漫才.
unlike red theater, carpet also has more of the older/established people as well.

しゃべくり　００７. http://www.youtube.com/user/shabekuri01#p/u
These guys are very established in comedy (you'll recognize some of them as hosts of their own shows). Its one of my absolute favorites, sadly they dont upload this show to d-addicts, so I get my dose from share (or youtube).
Check out the Gackt episode:

London hearts by the london boots guys. Its a sex/love comedy show, they do a lot of different things (the latest episode was about getting "the last japanese playboy" married). They do ドッキリ too.

not a london hearts ドッキリ but still awesome (features the non-style 漫才 duo)

mechaike is fun stuff too, most of the time. Keep an eye on 岡村, brilliant guy.

These shows cover a very wide range of the japanese comedy scene. All, except しゃべくり, are downloadable from d-addicts.com

Comedian recommendations: Everyone on しゃべくり(有田＋上田, neptune, tutorial), オードリー,　はんにゃ, 我が家,　non-style. Just to name a few.

p.s. I've been putting 5-10 sec comedy clips from these shows in my sentences deck, breaks the rhythm and makes reviewing A LOT more fun. Naturally, what is said in those clips also gets sentence-picked

edit:
IceCream: some manzai for you.

Video of the M-1 2008 オードリー 漫才
The timing is ridiculously good, gets you in their pace so even 春日's cough gets you laughing. They won the "Manzai-1"/"M-1" contest that year.

What's the stand-up comedy scene like in Japan? Is it popular, and what topics do the comedians like to talk about?? I'm genuinely curious!