I started a few weeks after i got back from japan. i have had japanese audio playing about 99% of each day. For work (my last job didn't allow headphones was a restaurant), I bought spy earpiece online and used that.

I have to say after about 3 months of almost 100% audio immersion 24/7, i have noticed a few things:

1) right now i listen to mostly music. i don't think i am gaining as much from the music than from the rips of tv shows and podcasts. its super easy to zone out the music words for me. for the tv shows and podcasts, even if i am not listening actively, i notice words and phrases regulary and am more tuned into it.

2) recently in the few situations where i wasn't listening (spyearpiece went out of batteries before my bday dinner), etc, i have found myself really confused and stressed out. its hard to describe. its like my ears are used to hearing nothing but japanese (even though i don't understand most of it), and when i only hear english with no japanese audio (especially if i am conversing in english with no japanese audio), my head starts to hurt.

anyone else have any observations like these?

this isn't the headpiece i bought, but i wish i bought this one. looks a ton better and better battery life.

http://www.gsm-earpiece.com/covert_listen_music.html

Interesting. You're really managing to do it 100%. I think I should try a lot more myself.

I originally bought my iPod for the sole purpose of Japanese audio but I wind up listening to Cradle of Filth most of the time. :'(

Just out of interest how are you listening? If I don't understand most of a podcast I figure I may as well loop it around and around for what it's worth.

Wow those spy earpieces are expensive. I guess they are targeting the "cheat on a test" market so they can jack up the prices.

I don't do 100% immersion, since I don't think it really helps any more than daily active exposure/use for a few hours.

I listen to new stuff every day. the only thing i have on repeat (while always updating when new podcasts are released) is the book lovers podcast. It is very relaxing. I keep the 20 newest episodes and loop them. i only listen to book lovers while i sleep.

there are cheaper spy pieces out there. its really a worthwhile investment if you are doing the 100% immersion. soo many people use their jobs and other things as an excuse to not be immersed because they dont allow headphones. these are the solution.

It's the "tuning out" that's hurt me in all the time I listened via an iPod. Here's a thread I started that sort of documented my results and what I did to fix it (I think).

My thread about listening ala AJATT

That earpiece looks tempting. Problem on my base right now is people moaning if you walk around with even one ear-piece in.

Nukemarine Wrote:It's the "tuning out" that's hurt me in all the time I listened via an iPod. Here's a thread I started that sort of documented my results and what I did to fix it (I think).

My thread about listening ala AJATT

That earpiece looks tempting. Problem on my base right now is people moaning if you walk around with even one ear-piece in.

Nuke, you can't see the earpiece at all. its invisible to anyone looking even directly in your ear.

@Nukemarine: The idea is that the earpiece is invisible since it's tiny, wireless, and lodged in your ear canal.

I think it's a giant waste of money though because of

1) my belief that continuous passive exposure is of minimum benefit
2) the earpiece itself is like $300, and the batteries are probably also a ridiculous price due to their size and obscurity. So even if constant passive exposure worked great, there is still the cost-benefit ratio to think about.

Also, regarding your topic you made, I believe you really start to benefit more from the audio 24/7 when you completely cut english out of your life (if that is a possibility). that means other than work you are not using english at all.

For an example look at the movie 'cast away'. before being alone on the island for that long i doubt tom hanks would have been talking and developing a friendly relationship with the ball. but after being devoid of one source of something your mind starts searching for replacements.

this is all of course a theory which i will be putting to the year and a half test starting october 15th. i will report my results to anyone who is still on these forums after that 1.5 years.

batteries are dirt cheap. they are like 1 dollar per battery (each gives 24 hours) or they are 50 cents a pack when buying in bulk on this site http://www.batteriesandbutter.com/Mercha...y_Code=379

you work 40 hour weeks and theoretically worked 12 months out of the year, buying off that site would cost you 50 dollars a year. assuming you believed 24/7 passive listening would work, 50 dollars a year is too expensive to help learn a language? thats like 14 cents a day for batteries.

if you wanted to buy enough to just leave it in all day 24/7 then it would cost you about 150 dollars a year or about 40 cents a day. less than the price of a coke from a vending machine per day.

its really not expensive.

You could spend 350 dollars on a few nice nights out with a Japanese girl. All kinds of language benefits there, not to mention all the benefits not of the language variety.

hmm after reading the disclaimer at the end of the website i am having some doubts.

http://gsm-earpiece.com/manual.html

I am sure the product is not intended to be left in your ears for the amount of time intended with 100% immersion. Its prolly the same deal with the one i have now. I am going to switch over to regular earphones until i double check with an ear doctor. Theres no point in doing it if it could damage your hearing, thus defeating the whole purpose of learning a language.

jacf29 Wrote:Theres no point in doing it if it could damage your hearing, thus defeating the whole purpose of learning a language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Sign_Language

The primary target market for that device is for people who want to cheat on tests, telling from the site. As such they probably aren't intending for users to leave the device in all day every day.

I typed that out wrong. What I meant was that it is tempting to get it BECAUSE I'm getting grief when I walk around with an iPod. However, the cost doesn't seem worth covering an additional few minutes of my day with audio. And as pointed out, the battery replacement prices would probably be higher.

It doesn't cost much for battery replacement. Only about $50 a year if you use 40 hours a week. $150 a year if you use 24 hours a day.

thats not a lot. I just need to make sure its safe to keep in the ear before I continue using mine.

jacf29 Wrote:1) right now i listen to mostly music. i don't think i am gaining as much from the music than from the rips of tv shows and podcasts. its super easy to zone out the music words for me. for the tv shows and podcasts, even if i am not listening actively, i notice words and phrases regulary and am more tuned into it.

When I'm not engaged in the program I tend to just drown it out all together.

jacf29 Wrote:2) recently in the few situations where i wasn't listening (spyearpiece went out of batteries before my bday dinner), etc, i have found myself really confused and stressed out. its hard to describe. its like my ears are used to hearing nothing but japanese (even though i don't understand most of it), and when i only hear english with no japanese audio (especially if i am conversing in english with no japanese audio), my head starts to hurt.

You've become used to the ears being constantly over-stimulated. Something similar happens to me in class when I don't draw. I've been drawing while listening to the professors for so long that its hard to concentrate without doing it now.

J7 Wrote:I don't do 100% immersion, since I don't think it really helps any more than daily active exposure/use for a few hours.

I've moved more towards a similar view. I used to listen while I slept. I noticed I wasn't really sleeping. I used to listen for hours at a time to things I couldn't really comprehend. I noticed that I just tended to drown it out after a while. I switched my OS to Japanese. I just used the keystrokes and menu positions I already knew without actually reading it.

(Since I've been using the W7 RC I've been forced to actually read a lot of the content though)

I'm starting to think immersion only helps when I have something to build off of. Otherwise, I'm just as confused as a child, but with half the attention span.

For about 4 months I've been listening to Japanese EVERY moment that is possible. That's probably about 75 - 85% of the day (I'm in High School). I listened to the news for about 2, 000 hours, and now I've switched to TV shows 24-7 that I've downloaded from D-Addicts etcetera. Music is a reward rather than immersion for me, as it's certainly far less effective (I forced myself to like Rap music, just because they talk fast). The results have been amazing for me; I can understand the news, TV shows, movies, most things already. AJATT was the method I'd always been looking for.

kazelee Wrote:You've become used to the ears being constantly over-stimulated. Something similar happens to me in class when I don't draw. I've been drawing while listening to the professors for so long that its hard to concentrate without doing it now.

I think your comparison is dissimilar, drawing or doing some other minor task enhances retention of the information. Read up on this it's quite interesting.

Yonosa Wrote:I think your comparison is dissimilar, drawing or doing some other minor task enhances retention of the information. Read up on this it's quite interesting.

So does listening to certain types of music... I wasn't speaking on retention though. I was talking about comfort. I get a sort of naked feeling when the sketchbook is not there (the absence of a stimulus). It's almost a compulsion. You want it to be there, but it's not.

BTW who decided that drawing was a minor task? GGRRR.

kazelee Wrote:Something similar happens to me in class when I don't draw. I've been drawing while listening to the professors for so long that its hard to concentrate without doing it now.

I was the same all through highschool and university too. Such that my notebooks were usually atleast 50% drawings. I think it used to piss off my teachers sometimes because they would assume I'm not listening. I doubt it helps your concentration or focus though. I've read before in several sources that doing 2 things at once almost always reduces efficiency at both tasks. I think when kids draw in class it's because they're not fully engaged. i.e the work is too easy/hard/boring or you're more concerned with something else.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/02/doodlerecall/

There are many more articles about this. So don't put down the pen/pencil and listen wholeheartedly just yet.

Yeah... I don't doodle. I draw

LOL

Toothless beheaded aliens...

kazelee Wrote:Yeah... I don't doodle. I draw

LOL

Same thing, unless you are completely zoning out the speaker on purpose.

thecite Wrote:For about 4 months I've been listening to Japanese EVERY moment that is possible. That's probably about 75 - 85% of the day (I'm in High School). I listened to the news for about 2, 000 hours, and now I've switched to TV shows 24-7 that I've downloaded from D-Addicts etcetera. Music is a reward rather than immersion for me, as it's certainly far less effective (I forced myself to like Rap music, just because they talk fast). The results have been amazing for me; I can understand the news, TV shows, movies, most things already. AJATT was the method I'd always been looking for.

Interesting. I might switch over to tv show rips only on my ipod. It's a shame because I love listening to music. I was one of those kids who was in choir for the longest time. I also did musicals etc when I was young. Music is something in my life I cannot live without, but if it makes the immersion more effective, I will completely cut it out or listen to it less until fluency.