I finished RTK1 back in June and started みんなの日本語 (vol 1) taking my time through each lesson studying the grammar points, doing exercises, etc. Along the way (currently on lesson 19) I have been mining sentences - I have 890 sentences thus far. I use Anki and practice recognition only. My vocabulary is going up, but sometimes I only add 10 cards/day with a good day adding 20 cards.

So, my question is:
how do I know if I am doing ok? Am I on track?

My current problem is that I feel that I have just memorized the sentences and when I see a certain kanji compound out of context - I freeze and draw a blank. I recall others saying this before and hope it passes when I get more cards added.

As a side, my Japanese language studying background: 12 years of start-stopping and before RTK my level was basic. Now I have a plan and my goal is fluency in the next few years.

Are you learning?

I only have my own experience to judge by, but I don't really recognize that sort of freezing; maybe more focus on reading rather than sentence-mining would help?

~J

woodwojr Wrote:Are you learning?

I feel that I am learning, e.g., (1) reading during my reviews is faster, (2) my vocabulary is expanding and (3) I am starting to use more complex constructs in my speech. Three months of serious study, but am I getting enough from my efforts? That is my real issue I am trying to understand.

I feel like that, I know a sentence in my deck, but if I see the word out in the wild sometimes I don't get it straight away (and then kick myself.)

I think the key is reinforcement, Just adding the sentence without seeing or hearing it can cause problems, but if its a word you hear and come across a lot then it should stick well.

Sometimes you don't realise how much you do know, because there is no marker with self studying, saying "you know this, this and that." Just keep pushing forward and you'll surprise yourself with how much you do actually know.

I get this with a few words but the what you'll find is once you encounter the word in a few different contexts it generally sticks very well. Just get the exposure and you'll sort things out.

It's also a real buzz when a word you've learned appears in the wild and you understand it in the context provided. That's what it's all about!

My two cents: perhaps, if you fail to recognize a 'learned' kanji or compound "in the wild" (what a great phrase!), the new sentence would make a good addition to your Anki deck. In other words, don't kick yourself but congratulate yourself for finding an authentic sentence to help you retain the character or compound. Sooner or later it will stick.

IMO the best way to test if you really progressed is to read native sources or something similar. Maybe you won't fully understand it but you'll feel good if you can understand a sentence (or a part of it) here or there, and it also gives you something to look forward to as you hammer down more grammar.

Yea, definitely keep at like everyone's been saying. I always have these moments when I'm like "What's this compound.... oh wait I already learnt it *kicks self*" and then moments when I just nail a new word that I've not seen for awhile. It's just an on and off thing; I wouldn't pay that much attention to it. Maybe just make a little note on the compound, and practice it a little bit?

If you're a geek like me, I would highly suggest keeping a log of how many RTK reviews and AJATT reviews you've done as well as the number of hours you've spent immersed, how many new kanji (RTK3 or otherwise) you've added, and how many new sentences you've added.

Mine looks something like this:



It does take some time to setup but seeing this chart on a daily basis is motivating enough. I've been doing mine for about 6 months, and seeing the number of reps go from 0 to over 50,000, the hours go from 0 to over 2000, and see the sentences go from 0 to over 7000 is nothing short of amazing. Nothing can quite motivate you until you see the actual progress you've made written down.

I have a couple other things in there to keep me on the path. I break up each month into total number of hours spent immersed and number of new cards. That makes each month a little challenge for myself. I put notes in the side of columns in case I put in a lot of new cards or neglected to my reps. But most importantly, I have my language goals at the top of chart just so I don't forget why I'm doing all of this.

If you're interested in a form like this, shoot me a message and I can send you one.

Bah, spreadsheet abuse!

Anyway, I don't want to trivialize the idea of actually measuring your progress, because the more measurable something is the more we can actually take steps to improve it, but my hunch is that effectively measuring your progress in a fine-grained way without novel techniques (publishable-research-level novel) would take so much time and effort, if it's even achievable, that it's not worth doing. Just keep reading and listening, and bask in the feeling of gradually understanding more and more stuff.

~J

Evangelo Wrote:If you're a geek like me, I would highly suggest keeping a log of how many RTK reviews and AJATT reviews you've done as well as the number of hours you've spent immersed, how many new kanji (RTK3 or otherwise) you've added, and how many new sentences you've added.

Mine looks something like this:

http://i36.tinypic.com/ir2alv.gif

It does take some time to setup but seeing this chart on a daily basis is motivating enough. I've been doing mine for about 6 months, and seeing the number of reps go from 0 to over 50,000, the hours go from 0 to over 2000, and see the sentences go from 0 to over 7000 is nothing short of amazing. Nothing can quite motivate you until you see the actual progress you've made written down.

I have a couple other things in there to keep me on the path. I break up each month into total number of hours spent immersed and number of new cards. That makes each month a little challenge for myself. I put notes in the side of columns in case I put in a lot of new cards or neglected to my reps. But most importantly, I have my language goals at the top of chart just so I don't forget why I'm doing all of this.

If you're interested in a form like this, shoot me a message and I can send you one.

You seem close to what Katz model seems to me.

So are you able to speak and understand most japanese?
Im really curious because within 9 months time i will be at your level sentence wise and want to know exactly what skills you have

So are you skilled in japanese or still struggling?

I notice I'm making progress when I encounter words I just learned in what I'm reading. It feels good to think that just a few days ago I wouldn't have understood that part.

Draak Wrote:

Evangelo Wrote:If you're a geek like me, I would highly suggest keeping a log of how many RTK reviews and AJATT reviews you've done as well as the number of hours you've spent immersed, how many new kanji (RTK3 or otherwise) you've added, and how many new sentences you've added.

Mine looks something like this:

http://i36.tinypic.com/ir2alv.gif

It does take some time to setup but seeing this chart on a daily basis is motivating enough. I've been doing mine for about 6 months, and seeing the number of reps go from 0 to over 50,000, the hours go from 0 to over 2000, and see the sentences go from 0 to over 7000 is nothing short of amazing. Nothing can quite motivate you until you see the actual progress you've made written down.

I have a couple other things in there to keep me on the path. I break up each month into total number of hours spent immersed and number of new cards. That makes each month a little challenge for myself. I put notes in the side of columns in case I put in a lot of new cards or neglected to my reps. But most importantly, I have my language goals at the top of chart just so I don't forget why I'm doing all of this.

If you're interested in a form like this, shoot me a message and I can send you one.

You seem close to what Katz model seems to me.

So are you able to speak and understand most japanese?
Im really curious because within 9 months time i will be at your level sentence wise and want to know exactly what skills you have

So are you skilled in japanese or still struggling?

Thanks man - it is very close to the model that Khatz used, just with my goals added at the top.

Although I've been doing it for nine months, there was about three in there (March, April, and July) when I fell far behind on my reps. March and April because I was writing my thesis, July because I moved to Japan among other things. That said, my Japanese is a absolutely conversational, although not near fluent.

Part of the reason is that I sidetracked from the "pure" TV and book sentence mining to get JLPT sentences in there. Since those are made to drill home certain grammar than to be understood by native speakers, it took me more time to have them really sink in.

Otherwise, I would highly suggest typing into your number of reps per day into a spreadsheet. Abuse or not, it keeps me motivated!

Things I look at as progress:

1. The big thing (amoung many) I like about Anki is the graphing and deck statistics. There's something cool seeing that in the last month I'm averaging (in my vocabulary deck) 150 reviews a day with 8 new words a day.

2. Finished shows (20 series on my hard drive).

3. Manga read (just laying up there on my shelf).

4. Dramas read (usually I print these out, so there's that stack up there).

5. Reviews in I did in my notebook (there's three full notebooks, with a fourth about to join the pile).

It's hard to gauge progress with comprehension. You just feel things make a bit more sense, but there's so much left to learn. I use the above to keep me going by seeing there is progress and it is adding up.

I also use a victory calendar like Evangelo does. I also developed a points system, the more dramas I watch/reviews I do/hanja I learn/sentences I do the more points I have. At the end of the week, I count up all the points and buy myself something equal to the points. Last week I got 616 points so I'm buying myselfr something worth $6.16 (hey, hey, I'm a 高校生, lay it easy x_x).

But the best way to keep me motivated is definitely using a journal. I write in it every Sunday, Wednesday and Friday, I refuse to write any self-criticizing comments in the diary - it gives me a more positive outlook on my learning and motivates me to do more. Not to mention I can always look back and see how it was like, not in numbers but in words.