Offshot from this thread: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...2#pid70652

IceCream Wrote:hey, i've been thinking about this idea for a while. I think it'd be really difficult to do for RTK, because some of the kanji are rare or only used in names. BUT, i was thinking, why can't we make something which takes you through the JLPT lists? We don't currently have anything that does that.

I think the start, where all the words are new, is the hardest part. I tried it with the first chapter of Death Note first. That was about 9 pages of vocabulary covered, 114 images (in need of editing/cutting down), but still leaves 167 pages to go.

The two files below are a full list, and an edited one (where words that have all ready come up are deleted). Going through the full file would give more choice of sentences (in case you don't understand the ones already there), but using one file would be less work as it goes on. But using one file means having to update it every time it's changed to keep it consistent、and more can always be added later. Anyone can add edit the second file if they feel like, if you'll mention what you've done and save images (or give a link where you can get them).

As a kind of informal rule, I've only been marking off words if they appeared in full kanji if that's how they appear on the list. I've made exceptions for easier/common kanji (like 無い or 付ける). So for example, even though it's 傷付ける on the list, I marked it off for 傷つける. Reversely, if something appears in kana on the list but in kanji in the manga, I still marked it off. (There's also some double entries, which can be a bit of a hassle when you've already got an example for a word but it's still on the list.)

JLPT vocab file (all levels, original):
http://www.mediafire.com/file/53uy2nngmyx/JLPT.rtf
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dch5v9mz_10d22gtgrd

Edited file (11 chapters):
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AeKadK...5ncg&hl=en

Manga used so far (only first chapter):
- Death Note
- One Piece
- Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion
- Bleach
- Yotsubato!
- Fullmetal Alchemist
- Meichan no Shitsuji
- Bokura ga Ita
- Natsume Yuujin Chou
- Karekano
- Toki wo Kakeru Shoujo
- Yamada Tarou
- Tantei Gakuen Q (up to page 43)

I think keeping them as small and simple as possible would be best, but it would benefit from context (otherwise it might as well just be text sentences or something). But whether there's enough context or not might depend on the person using it. What might make sense for one person (if you've read it?) could possibly not work for another.

To help in case there's a need to go back and re-edit an image (expand it/add in more panels), it might help to limit taking only things from the first chapter of a series. That way if you need to go back, as long as you know the series you've only got one chapter to look through, and obviously there would be the need to look at other series instead of just one (so more chances of variety in vocab, etc.).

Edited file now updated with chapter one of One Piece. Instead of cutting out panels from pages, I just saved the entire page. Still enough words left on the list that nearly every page had something new on it.

I was thinking of doing Code Geass ("Lelouch of the Rebellion" version) next.

Edit; updated with Code Geass as well. I'm surprised the JLPT vocab list had stuff like 神聖 in it.

Updated with three chapters today (Bleach, Yotsubato!, and Fullmetal Alchemist).

Altogether, they cover 30 pages of vocab. Doing some bad maths, and assuming it keeps at a similar pace of words per chapter, then it should be done in about 30~35 more chapters?

I don't think I have really explained it very well. This is the method I've been using. Using a page from Death Note for an example: http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/484/13

Step 1: Have both the manga and the edited word list. I've been using the online one, since it's easier than uploading a new copy every time. But I still save a copy after each edit, just in case something goes wrong.

2: Read through it, looking for any new words. So if I remember seeing 事 before (or words like that which are really common anyway), I won't bother looking those up.

3: For each new word, I search the list to see if it's there, and if it is I'll delete it. I try to search in hiragana for certain words since they can be written differently (like くりかえし, which could be 繰り返し or 繰返し or other combinations) or might just be on the list in hiragana and not kanji. I prioritise examples using kanji, but if I see a kana version and it's on the list (in addition to a kanji version later on), I'll just get rid of the kana version. But if the kana version appears in a manga, but the one on the list is in kanji, I won't delete it until I see the kanji version.

4: I save an image of the page if there were any new words on the page. Hopefully, I'll remember what words I've seen on that page, so if I come across 毎日 or 腐る again later, I don't have to look them up again (but I might see another example, which I'll save as well). But it doesn't always work out like that. I also tend to forget about some of the other things that are on the list but what I would consider grammar (like けれど、だが).

5: Repeat for the next page until I've finished with the whole chapter.

The reasons I picked only the first chapters was to not really spoil things in case people wanted to read these later, and also so if people wanted to read the manga being used (for more context, and reading practice), it's easier if it's only the first chapter. That way, if you didn't like it, it's only one chapter and not a whole book or anything, and having a bigger range would be better than sticking too much to one series.

For now, I was just trying to gather the resources together. So I don't have a list of what words appear in which manga. When the whole word list (or if not, at least most of it) is cleared, then start on organising it properly. Maybe it's not the most effective way to go about it, though. The list doesn't include English translation, so one of the choices might not actually be the correct usage for the words (like うそ, is that as in 嘘をつく or an interjection as in うそ！本当に？ and not the noun?).

I've not thought much on organising it afterwards, but as rough proposal: use a site like bombpersons' Anki-resources site to catalogue the sentences. Then make a site with the vocab list, starting from level 4. Either each word would get a page, or maybe have words grouped? Then on those pages (using the catalogue of sentences), list each example using that word.

albion Wrote:]
I've not thought much on organising it afterwards, but as rough proposal: use a site like bombpersons' Anki-resources site to catalogue the sentences. Then make a site with the vocab list, starting from level 4. Either each word would get a page, or maybe have words grouped? Then on those pages (using the catalogue of sentences), list each example using that word.

Ah, that's a good idea. I plan on making it possible to upload sentences to a specific "group", much like a list on Smart.fm, so you could upload the sentences to a group for this.

IceCream Wrote:brilliant, thankyou... i will try to get a bit done soon and let you know. the only thing im unsure of now is how to save a whole page from manga helpers cos it doesnt all fit on the screen for jing...

It should work just saving the image normally, at least it has so far for me. But you can also download a zip file of the whole thing, so you could just pick the images out from there.

Quote:thanks for the detailed explanation, i do like the idea of using only one chapter of each manga too, it will definately give it a lot more variety and also make it more fun to do...

It's an excuse for me to read more :p I don't think I've read 30 manga in total in my life, so it will mean reading more stuff, which is always a good thing. And maybe, if people read one chapter for this, they might find something they like and start reading the whole thing.

bombpersons Wrote:Ah, that's a good idea. I plan on making it possible to upload sentences to a specific "group", much like a list on Smart.fm, so you could upload the sentences to a group for this.

Can you upload images as well? Though I don't want to end up taking up a load of space if you have a limit, so maybe hosting them somewhere else would be better?

Yeah, you can include any media you want (video's and sound as well). I'm not sure how much space I will need, but hopefully it shouldn't be a problem.

At the moment, I'm just running it as a test on an old server at home, using my painfully slow internet connection. When I have the site in a usable state, I'll need to get some proper hosting.

Great (to both posts). I wanted to try to branch out a bit to different genres, since the list is mostly stuff from shounen magazines right now. I started on Crayon Shin-chan (going for 30 pages rather than 1 chapter, since individual chapters are short), and was thinking of trying something like Hana Yori Dango or Nana after.

I'm still confused about what you guys are doing. Are you just collecting sentences from manga that contain words from various JLPT levels?

I think once it's complete, it could be extended to JLPT grammar as well. There'll already be a lot of example sentences, which will probably use a lot of the grammar anyway, even if it isn't all of it. Though since manga is primarily dialogue, finding examples of literary grammar might be a bit tricky.

IceCream Wrote:how long are your chapters on average btw? well, i've done 50 pages today, theres still another 50 to go on that chapter, not sure if they are really long chapters compared to others?

First chapters are sometimes kind of long, since they're setting up the story and introducing characters, but 100 pages is definitely longer than average. The ones I've done so far have only been between 30-50 pages. But some are just longer. Although it was just something I read personally and not part of this, chapters in The Rose of Versaille were nearly 200 pages (in the first book, anyway). And sometimes when they compiled them into books they take out the chapter breaks and just have it as one continuous block.

I think just boxes should be fine. As long as we know where it's from, then we can go back later and change them if need be.

I might try a josei one, but the only ones I can think of is Kimi wa Petto and Hatarakiman, both of which seem to have been taken down.

I've been a bit preoccupied lately, but have been working through Nana (which is another 100-odd page chapter).

I went to look for Nodame before, but it seems to have been taken down from MangaHelpers.

Maybe for longer chapters, we could just find a point, end of a scene, etc., to stop at. 100 pages might wield more vocab, but stopping early would give more time for other series and a more variety. But if you want to finish the rest of it, either way is fine. Keeping going is the main thing (says the one who hasn't done much lately). But for ones where there are no chapters in the tankoubon, picking a scene (at around page 30/50) would be best, perhaps.

I'm downloading a bunch of things (first volumes only), in case they get taken down:

01: NieA_7
02: Spriggan
03: Rozen Maiden
04: Wolf Guy - Wolfen Crest
05: Prince of Tennis
06: Paradise Kiss
07: Ouran High School Host Club
08: Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
09: Monster
10: Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin
11: Mobile Police Patlabor
12: Kuroshitsuji
13: Lovely Complext
14: Lupin III
15: Liar Game
16: Adolf
17: Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
18: Akagi
19: InuYasha
20: Kodomo no Omocha
21: Gintama
22: Fist of the North Star
23: Elfen Lied
24: Dragon Ball
25: Doraemon
26: Cat's Eye
27: Bokurano
28: Angel Sanctuary

I tried to pick a wide range, from new or popular stuff to 'classics', to stuff I wanted to read myself and some random picks based on how funny the title sounded (Wolf Guy). That list would take it past the 35 chapter estimate, assuming it gets done :p

I also wondered about the content of each manga. It might not matter with just cut out panels, but if you were to read the whole chapters it might. Maybe once it's finish, all the chapters used could be gathered up into a kind of compilation, so people can easily get the context and practice from reading them without searching for 40+ different series. But not every one might want to read something ultra-violent/etc. But that would either involve: a) not including those at all, b) TV/film-esque 'content warnings', c) an alternative set without those titles.

Sorry about not updating the list and not getting much done with it. I've had some computer trouble lately, and might have lost what I'd done with Nana. I should still have the data since the hard drive is fine, but I just can't access it right now.

I'd like to get another one done some time this week, though.