Personally I find it easiest to concentrate on a bus or train. Unless a girl's highschool just got out, there are zero distractions compared to at home where there is a bed, tv, computer, etc. To me it's 一石二鳥 since it makes a boring commute go by faster and I get a lot of reviewing done. I don't study new material in such an environment (mostly because you can't add cards with Ankimini), but getting through my Anki reviews takes the most time out of anything else I do.

I also don't find it stressful to watch tv in Japanese, skim a book, or do Anki reps whilst I eat.

Well, I have heard good things about how quiet people are on Japanese public transports. I don't know how much of it is true.

Here you get so many annoyances: people shouting in their cellphones, beggars, "musicians" (really beggars too, only way more annoying), ...

Jarvik7 Wrote:It's not really laziness. It's mostly just apathy. The ex-pats of which I speak are sometimes here 15-30 years and still speak nothing.

Quote:They could always pick up Japanese in their personal lives, but same expats tend to just surround themselves with other foreigners and get by in life with gesturing/pointing and hoping someone at the store/restaurant speaks some English.

Quote:... Buying groceries and everything else one does in daily life should be learning experiences.

Yeah, gotta watch out for those hordes of 30-year residents aimlessly roaming the streets who cannot even order dinner for themselves in Japanese. If only they'd grocery shop more diligently. Right.
[edit typos]

Yes.. Instead of moaning braaaiiiinnnsss they instead moan Does anyone speak ennnggglisssshhhh?

Just hit 500 today!

The issues being discussed are actually why I want to go to a language school for a year or so when I first arrive in Japan. Not because I expect the language school to be that effective in teaching me the language by their own means, but because it will be a sort of forced AJATT with tons of immediate correction. The language school will basically be 4+ hours per day of gluing together the pieces I've acquired through SRS'ing.

I'm going to be applying for the JET program just because it would be stupid not to (more options are always better than no options) but in reality I think it would piss me off knowing I'm in Japan yet spending 8hrs per day speaking and/or planning English lessons.

And yes I completely agree that there would be plenty of time left over for Japanese study, not arguing that, but what I fear is being forced into daily situations where I'd have to unknowingly use bad Japanese to get by, thus reinforcing bad habits. Here in Alabama I can completely avoid that. I never worry about speaking grammatically bad Japanese because I never have to use Japanese at all. If I ever say something I know it is 100% correct before doing so.

This is why when I first get to Japan I want the majority of my daily Japanese interaction to come from a source that will constantly correct me.

activeaero Wrote:but what I fear is being forced into daily situations where I'd have to unknowingly use bad Japanese to get by, thus reinforcing bad habits.

This is an interesting point. Antimoon states that enough input will eventually give you strong output skills, and that you should avoid output until you're "ready". Obviously, this advice is pretty hard to follow if you're not "ready" and you're living in the country. That said, the focus on reading is great advice, and I wish I had started doing this about 10 years ago.

I don't think you will end up learning 'bad Japanese' if you're in a situation where you have to use it every day. If you are not sure something you say is right, you can't learn it as being right either.

To illustrate; I lived in Norway for 4 months when I was in university. I didn't speak a word of Norwegian before I went there (actually, I spoke a total of three words). Being surrounded by it every day (and also hearing it on TV) made me pick it up really fast (it's also very similar to English and my native language, Dutch), but I never had the impression that something was actually right when I said things I wasn't sure about. I just had the impression that I wasn't sure and I was just going to try it and hope people would understand me. If they did, I still didn't think it was completely right, not until I had a chance to check my phrase with a colleague who was helping me. She would then tell me if it was correct or not, and then I'd know for sure.

If I hadn't had a colleague like that, I could have used a Norwegian grammar book or something.

So absolutely no chance of learning 'bad Japanese' and thinking it is correct. Just make sure you do find out the correct way of saying the phrases you find yourself saying a lot.

@Koos83
Well you're kinda forced to do so if you're in such an environment, so it's definitely a good thing, and you'll be able to correct any 'bad' language as you better in the language.
*gee, hoe komt het toch dat er zoveel hollanders japans aan het leren zijn.

Musashi: Yep, even though I was also teaching English there. So I was basically doing the same as you would when teaching English in Japan.

En dat komt omdat wij gewoon goed in talen zijn.

Yea we dutch people do seem to be good at the language thingy

I (also) learned most if not all of my English skills through the media - games, tv series and cartoons (which I guess, effectively acted like an 'immersive enviroment').
I do wonder how skilled our current 'generation' of young children will be in English, seeing as basically all children's series have been dubbed in dutch now, and even games are a lot more frequently localized these days...

I personally can't say I learned a lot of English at school, or that the quality of the English education was all that great... so I wonder if you can later on see any differences in level of English fluency between people that grew up 'subbed' vs people who grew up 'dubbed'.

Definitely; look at Germany and France, for example.
However, we are still fortunate that our movies aren't dubbed, so people can still learn English from there. And I must say, I also learnt most of my English from watching TV.

And thanks for the compliment, I teach English in school for a living...

activeaero Wrote:I'm going to be applying for the JET program just because it would be stupid not to (more options are always better than no options) but in reality I think it would piss me off knowing I'm in Japan yet spending 8hrs per day speaking and/or planning English lessons.

Actually most JETs don't do any kind of meaningful work and have hours of free time every day

Womacks23 Wrote:

activeaero Wrote:I'm going to be applying for the JET program just because it would be stupid not to (more options are always better than no options) but in reality I think it would piss me off knowing I'm in Japan yet spending 8hrs per day speaking and/or planning English lessons.

Actually most JETs don't do any kind of meaningful work and have hours of free time every day

Yep you are an ALT. I used to be an ALT. It involves teaching a small part of your 8 hour day and spending the rest of the time basically doing nothing. Easiest job I ever had. I basically spent half or more of my days with shorts and a tshirt on playing sports with the students. My school even let me suntan outside on hot days. Man i miss that school.

Koos83 Wrote:So absolutely no chance of learning 'bad Japanese' and thinking it is correct. Just make sure you do find out the correct way of saying the phrases you find yourself saying a lot.

I learned french with TV5 and police judiciaire. I embaressed the french people I met with my vocabulary. words you would not teach your children ...