(Sorry if my English is suck)
To be honest, I'm a student majoring in Japanese at a Vietnamese university. I have to admit that I used to follow AJATT, but not succeed. I want to fluent Japanese, I know everyone on this forum want it too. But I don't know how you actually learn Japanese. What did you do after you finished RTK1 (or both of them: RTK3)? Did you learn grammar, did you find a website to learn Japanese online, or anything else such as LingQ.com? I have stopped for a very long time, for over 4 months after finishing Remembering the Kanji I, I don't know where to go on, I don't know whether I should work with grammar.

I focus on Japanese environment as Khatzumoto advocated. But u know, after over 3 months, I couldn't understand anything though I major in Japanese at uni (now, because I cant follow Japanese curriculum, I have quit uni completely and hope will be fluent before comeback). Honestly speaking, I didn't learn much from it. I often spend time to find a Japanese learning method. And I stopped when I found AJATT.

Bearing in mind that Japanese always my important language, and I consider learning Japanese is my life goal. Please show me how did you learn Japanese, or what you think how to learn Japanese is the best. I'm maybe a complete beginner with a few Kanji after much forgetting).

Please tell me what you think, and a very detailed way on starting learning Japanese. I will be much obliged to you, all of you. Thanks in advance.

Let me put in a nutshell:
+HOW CAN I DO NOW, WHAT BOOKS DO I NEED (I finished RTK1 4 months ago without reviewing)
+ I live in Vietnam, and I'm not in a position to buy books such as Understand Japanese Basic Grammar, All about Articles (I printed it thanks to a scanned PDF file), and a book I think very important to start Oxford Japanese Starter (the Book Khatzu used). Generally speaking, (not being rude) I only can use scanned version and free software.

Any comment will be appreciated!!!

Stand by for multiple answers from multiple people, all correct in their own way.

First thing, I've found that the free material has been the best material. For Grammar I used Tae Kim's grammar sentences (for advanced grammar use http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/skills/grammar/ ). For Vocabulary source I used Smart.FM Core 2k and 6k series. For SRS I used Anki. For mining I used subs2srs. All have been free material we can grab off the internet.

I found putting my environment in Japanese didn't help until I began to understand what was around me. So maybe early on post up a Kanji poster (RTK phase), beginner sentences you used in SRS (grammar and vocab phase), then full on scripts (mining/disection phase) all over your walls. The audio I found watching a show once with subtitles then using the audio from then on in my iPod. Now, by completely figuring out a show, that hour of audio has really advanced my listening and speaking skills.

Anyway, it's pretty simple: RTK, basic grammar, basic vocabulary, intermediate grammar, intermediate vocabulary, drama dissection. After this point, you add kanji, vocabulary and grammar as you come across them. The more you study and retain, the better you get. Let what you study help dictate part of your environment.

You have attended university, you already have tons of textbooks, right? Use them. Those textbooks were created to teach Japanese, using them together with an SRS is gold. Once you're actually good enough to understand Japanese, THEN you can expose for massive gain.

After RTK I did Tae Kim and then KO2001. That's gotten me pretty far.

Thanks for your detailed comment Nukemarine, I'm very glad when reading them. But actually, I don't think I can do what you said fully.
First, I used to use Smart.fm, but the sentences there really made me feel boring, and after about 3 months, I gave up. I found that it's very difficult for me to remember them.
Another, when I used Guide to Japanese Grammar, I met things such as not get fully what Tae Kim said, and I really confused why we should learn Grammar when Khatzu said it's same learn quantum mechanics when driving car.
Finally, I realized that learning a foreign language by eyes is much stressful, don't you think so? I remember when we are a child, we learned by osmosis, didn't we? So, why don't we focus on listening, now, I have problem again, how to understand them without prior vocabulary?

@ Thanks for your comment, I really like them, but unfortunately, I'm extremely afraid of touching them, it's a haunting vision, very very scary, I will try it, for someday.

yeah, mezbup, I have read it somewhere on this forum, but u know, as I said above, I'm not able to buy something online, mind you, I will find it at my local bookstore. I remember apparently, this book was translated to Vietnamese, and I used to have my hands on them, but at that time, I don't know many vocab as well as grammar, and I gave it back to my uni's library.

Hey, do you use SRS (Anki or something else). I find it stressful when I do reps everyday. Do you have any statics for doing them>

ppminhphung Wrote:yeah, mezbup, I have read it somewhere on this forum, but u know, as I said above, I'm not able to buy something online, mind you, I will find it at my local bookstore. I remember apparently, this book was translated to Vietnamese, and I used to have my hands on them, but at that time, I don't know many vocab as well as grammar, and I gave it back to my uni's library.

Hey, do you use SRS (Anki or something else). I find it stressful when I do reps everyday. Do you have any statics for doing them>

I don't have the book itself, I just have an Anki deck with all the sentences and the audio from it. If you do a search on the forums you can find it too. It's also hard for me to buy books and other study materials so I usually get what I can for free too.

If you want to remember what you have learned then Anki is the best way. Having to reps every day can be stressful. It really depends on the amount you have to do every day.

Grammar is very useful despite what khatz says. I can hear certain things 1000 times and still not know what it means until I look it up. Once I look things up I understand them and I have made progress this way much faster because of it.

ppminhphung, How did you try to learn Japanese?
What things did you do to learn japanese and for how long did you do them?
Also, http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=3896

I'm using subs2srs, recommend it as you get to study interesting sentences from drama/anime you choose, together with audio and picture/video. Better to find something that can sustain your interest rather than continue on with useful but boring sentences, imo. As for cost, well, subs2srs is free, the japanese subtitles are available online, and for videos you can torrent, download from internet, or buy.

In my experience, I have not learned much through osmosis. If I know most of the vocabulary in a particular audio clip, then it can be useful.

Although some of the AJATT blog (most?) is too rambling, Khatzumoto did write somewhere about 'SRS holidays', where you continue doing reviews but don't add any more cards. This could always be a good option if you feel like the reviews are getting too stressful

Zodiac: Where are good sites to find Japanese subtitles to anime? I can normally find only fansubbed versions which is annoying, though if I can download a separate file I can get rid of the English subs if it is soft-subbed

Heres a site that has a bunch (全384作品) of japanese audiobooks:
http://www.koetaba.net/3book/index.html
Searched this forum, no one has mentioned it so I figured I would.
Not very relevant to this thread, but I didn't want to make a new thread just to post this. Lazy, I know.

Pubbie, I'd say post that link in the essential resources thread.

Ban hoc am^ cua chu~ han' cung~ se co' nhieu hie.u qu?a chu'. Neu can thi nt cho minh, co nhieu sach pdf day, cung vui long chia cho ban.

I may arrive after the battle :-)

MY TWO CENTS ON WHAT IT TAKES TO LEARN A LANGUAGE ...
I understand that learning languages or any other domain of knowledge and skills requiring a long-term investment might be quite depressing sometime. For some domain, it's even harder since you only feel like you've achieved something after a real strong and long-term effort. Japanese is one of those "hard domains". Playing the Chapman stick (a musical instruments on which you play the bass line with one hand and the guitar and melody part with another hand, all in the same time), writing a novel starting with a blank page and getting it published in the end, or building a house from scratch are some other hard-to-get goals. You really know and feel you can do it once you've done it, whatever your inital faith. Well, sorry for this low-level philosophy, be to be practical here, I guess that the only solutions regarding such progressive paths have already been expressed higher in this thread:
- ENJOY WHAT YOU DO! Otherwise, you might be on the wrong road.
- TRY AND STOP THINKING TO MUCH ABOUT IT: JUST DO IT! In other words, try spending more time learning things - one day after another - instead of being dramatic about your progress and spending too much time accumulating learning materials (without truly exploiting any of them) or thinking to much about the right/wrong approach. Keep it simple, easy, and donw-to-earth. Grab the ball and run in the wind without thinking about scoring: just enjoy running, running and running again, with the wind in your face... and some annoying flies sometime. But that's life!

MY NOT-SO-MUCH-RELATED, PRACTICAL QUESTION
I'm not familiar with Subs2SRS. I understand that when you advice to "pick out some sentences you'd like to learn", you mean AUDIO sentences? Then, in Anki, you match the subs with those audio sentences you recognized. Here is my question: how do you know you caught the sentence correctly? What if you miss one or two syllables, take a word for another, and so on? My fear would be to get ingrained in my brain wrong sentences due my personal mistakes in deciphering them. Unfortunately, one has not alwas a Japanese friend to correct those mistakes. Am I right here or missing something about that whole Subs2SRS-based learning process?

I have been learning over 1 year (1 year majoring in Jp at uni and off and on at home).
Thanks for your answer, you guys are really sweet. Thanks again.
What I need now is a very solid approach, what to use, how to use, and how to enjoy the JP learning journey.
<quote>Ban hoc am^ cua chu~ han' cung~ se co' nhieu hie.u qu?a chu'. Neu can thi nt cho minh, co nhieu sach pdf day, cung vui long chia cho ban.</quote>
I have finished RTK 1 over 3 months, and what left in my mind is a small number of vocab and some basic grammar pattern, it's all. (maybe some Kanji).
Yes, I also learn Vietnamese reading for each Kanji, and yeah, I found it useful, really useful. But what, what to do then? I wonder?

Another thing to try: Check some older threads here about "retranslation," I learned this method from a person in Vietnam. He was the best English speaker that I have ever met there, even better than all the English teachers there that I have met. He claimed to use that method exclusively, and it met his budget (free). It's a great way to practice and polish output and get away from the computer.

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=1112&page=2

@YogaSpirit: If you have any more confusion about what subs2srs is I recommend downloading the premade/sample decks (esp. the ones by cb4960) and keep in mind that the only thing you need to do to generate them for shows you choose is find video, japanese subs and english subs.

@edsmaffs: I got mine from http://kitsunekko.net/subtitles/japanese/ if you search around the forums you'll get more sites, but I did not find the other sites useful as they were mostly movies, iirc.

The site truly relies on a community of great people! Would you have a very concrete example of a nice show to start with for beginners?

I will definitely have a look at this "retranslation" approach.

I assume you're talking about subs2srs when you asked for a nice show to start with? I don't have any particular recommendations personally, but I suggest you check out http://learnanylanguage.wikia.com/wiki/Sub2srs_decks and see if there are any pre-made decks for shows that you have seen or that interest you. Something might catch your eye.

I think you should find something that you've seen before and liked. It is better to go through something that may be hard but that you're interested in rather than something that's simple but you feel is boring.

One bad thing is that japanese subs that have timing information are quite rare... so you're somewhat restricted as to which shows you can choose.

Also http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=3730 by nest0r is one thread with lots of movie subs with timings.

Thanks. Where should I look to get a chance to find Crayon Chan and Chobits?

Sorry, I can't find it.

stehr Wrote:Another thing to try: Check some older threads here about "retranslation," I learned this method from a person in Vietnam. He was the best English speaker that I have ever met there, even better than all the English teachers there that I have met. He claimed to use that method exclusively, and it met his budget (free). It's a great way to practice and polish output and get away from the computer.

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=1112&page=2

Hey stehr, I want to ask you a question, are u Vietnamese, or an immigrant in America, I feel that your Vietnamese is truly outstanding, it's really amazing, and I suppose that u're a Vietnamese native.

About the method u mentioned, yeah, I have read it somewhere on this website, and exactly the link u provided. So thanks, but now, as a total beginner, or low level in Japanese, I can't do that at all.

Hey, guys, I want to ask you a question, do u feel tired or stressful while learning Japanese vocab and sentences. Are you inclined to give up, or any such other things?
Finally, do you listening and you may hear the readings of the words before you learn them. Steve Kaufman (LINGq.com) said only learn vocab by listening first, the read the text of the audio!

If I remember correctly, Stehr is a Caucasian person who speaks perfectly fine Vietnamese. (If it helps, I'm Vietnamese! An ABV though=D)