Because I`ve been linking this everywhere I can recently (and I didnt see it mentioned in the thread):
http://digital-haze.net/ndsrs.php

SRS program for the DS, with support for japanese(and any other language, really).

ToasterMage Wrote:Because I`ve been linking this everywhere I can recently (and I didnt see it mentioned in the thread):
http://digital-haze.net/ndsrs.php

SRS program for the DS, with support for japanese(and any other language, really).

Interesting, but completely useless since it lacks support for opening/importing (or exporting) existing data. If it could directly open anki files and retain intervals (or even better, sync to anki online) I'd definitely use it.

Jarvik7 Wrote:

ToasterMage Wrote:Because I`ve been linking this everywhere I can recently (and I didnt see it mentioned in the thread):
http://digital-haze.net/ndsrs.php

SRS program for the DS, with support for japanese(and any other language, really).

Interesting, but completely useless since it lacks support for opening/importing (or exporting) existing data. If it could directly open anki files and retain intervals (or even better, sync to anki online) I'd definitely use it.

I was planning on looking into that sometime(I ran out of things to work on).

looked a bit at the .anki file, and its hardly straightforward, so it`ll take a bit of time.

Sorry if this kind of question has already been answered but; which Kanji game would you recommend to an absolute beginner, that has finished RtK1 but only knows how to read very few or no kanji? I'm definitely getting 漢字そのまま楽引き辞典, it'd be neat to get such a cheap but high-quality electronic dictionary.

I've got my eyes on Kakitori kun, but the Naruhudo review says it's mainly used for revising the Kanji rather than learning them, and Kanken DS2 looks a bit daunting when it brings up all the unknown kanji right when you boot the game, or at least, that's how it showed up on my friend's DS (can you change it to 100% hiragana?).

Thanks!

Edit: Also, if it only requires 80-240 kanji to be able to read some of these games, then I'll be willing to get half of 2001KO down, but I'm not a textbook kind of person >_>

I've been looking at the Nintendo DS as well as the more traditional electronic dictionaries lately. It would be nice to have something portable to use when I'm reading a book and don't want to drag along my laptop. Ideally, the device would have the ability to save and export a list of searches or better still, copy and paste definitions from the dictionary. The dictionary on my Mac allows this, but from what I understand, the electronic dictionaries don't, even though some have USB ports which would seem to facilitate this sort of thing. My question is, does the dictionary used with the DS have the copy/paste or import/export capabilities?

jreaves Wrote:My question is, does the dictionary used with the DS have the copy/paste or import/export capabilities?

Nope.

Squintox Wrote:Sorry if this kind of question has already been answered but; which Kanji game would you recommend to an absolute beginner, that has finished RtK1 but only knows how to read very few or no kanji?

In my humble opinion, none of them. Once you are a bit more advanced, some of them can be good to test your knowledge, but every single one I have tried seems very daunting for a beginner. There seem to be 2 primary styles of kanji games:
- ones that just ask you to draw a certain character - things like kakitorikun, bimoji training... in my opinion these are not very useful at all.
- ones that show you japanese sentences and you have to change hiragana to kanji, or kanji to hiragana - things like kanken. Theses are really tough for a beginner, because they expect you to actually know Japanese. If you can't read the sentences, how can you answer the questions correctly? If you rely on the nintendo ds dictionary rather than an electronic dictionary, then you will have no means of really looking up the words in the games either, unless you sit at a computer the whole time you play it.

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Squintox Wrote:I've got my eyes on Kakitori kun, but the Naruhudo review says it's mainly used for revising the Kanji rather than learning them(...)

It's true. Unless you are following exactly the same kanji progression as Japanese children (and thus not using RtK) in which case you could revise the material. Otherwise like zarxrax says. But don't let that discourage you.

Kakitori Kun is a title you may still enjoy for the writing exercises, until you are of sufficient level that at least 30% of the kanji you can have some guess. BUT >>>>> in that case I'd recommend to get the 2nd version of Kakitori Kun because the writing practice is much MUCH easier to use (no need to go back to the main menu for every single kanji, which is really annoying), and it's got quite a few other modes that you could practice such as the one where you have to name the constituent parts, and another where you have to match constituents and kanji. Then when you are of a minimum level like you can read about 20% of the characters you can start to get some enjoyment out of the kanji tests (just skip the ones you don't know).

Nazotte Oboeru is also a great title. But Nazotte's writing mode is really bad, you just trace over something. It doesn"t track the characters you practiced neither score you on how well your writing was, contrary to Kakitori Kun.

But otherwise I dont know of any kanji title on the DS that groups kanji in an efficient manner for learning purposes.

Zarxrax Wrote:ones that show you japanese sentences and you have to change hiragana to kanji, or kanji to hiragana - things like kanken. Theses are really tough for a beginner, because they expect you to actually know Japanese. If you can't read the sentences, how can you answer the questions correctly? If you rely on the nintendo ds dictionary rather than an electronic dictionary, then you will have no means of really looking up the words in the games either, unless you sit at a computer the whole time you play it.

Kanken sounds like the thing I've been looking for Thanks!

I have 2 DS's, a phat and a lite, so in one DS (the phat) I'll have 漢字そのまま and the lite, I'll have the next kanji game.

ファブリス Wrote:It's true. Unless you are following exactly the same kanji progression as Japanese children (and thus not using RtK) in which case you could revise the material. Otherwise like zarxrax says. But don't let that discourage you.

Would it be too late to switch over to the system in the way Japanese children learn them?

ファブリス Wrote:Kakitori Kun is a title you may still enjoy for the writing exercises, until you are of sufficient level that at least 30% of the kanji you can have some guess. BUT >>>>> in that case I'd recommend to get the 2nd version of Kakitori Kun because the writing practice is much MUCH easier to use (no need to go back to the main menu for every single kanji, which is really annoying), and it's got quite a few other modes that you could practice such as the one where you have to name the constituent parts, and another where you have to match constituents and kanji. Then when you are of a minimum level like you can read about 20% of the characters you can start to get some enjoyment out of the kanji tests (just skip the ones you don't know).

So would it be a smart idea if I learn the first 240 (or 440?) from KO2001 before I start using the Kanji games?

ファブリス Wrote:Nazotte Oboeru is also a great title. But Nazotte's writing mode is really bad, you just trace over something. It doesn"t track the characters you practiced neither score you on how well your writing was, contrary to Kakitori Kun.

Would you say it's good for improving your handwriting? My Japanese handwriting is absolutely terrible, and I'd definitely love to improve that. Or would you rather recommend Bimoji training?

ファブリス Wrote:But otherwise I dont know of any kanji title on the DS that groups kanji in an efficient manner for learning purposes.

What if you already know how to write the Kanji, but not know how to read them (as per a person who has finished RtK1)? Is there any good game that concentrates on readings rather than correct stroke order? Thanks!

So far I'm definitely getting 漢字そのまま楽引き辞典 and 漢字検定2. I'll also either be getting なぞって覚える or 美文字 depending on which improves your handwriting better.

Thanks for the suggestions!~

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Squintox, the point is.. these are all games at the end of the day, they're not designed to teach you anything. Even reviewing has limited use because it does not help you to remember contrary the the Leitner based reviews on this site, or with other SRS like Mnemosyne.

As for handwriting I believe you can get some basics about the characters with Kakitori Kun. If you want the real thing and you're into Japanese, try to join a local Japanese or Chinese calligraphy course. Chinese calligraphy is a different style but same principles. That's probably the best thing to develop a good handwriting. It'll get you compliments from Japanese themselves.

I'd also like to add that I don't think ds games can really help your handwriting much. It's just not the same as real handwriting. First off, you have that horrible little stylus (if you get a better one, then that's a big help), but then you are still trying to write on a little ds, which just ain't the same as writing on paper. In bimoji training, it shows that you should even put some sort of box object beside the ds so your hand actually has somewhere to rest on. All these hoops you have to jump through just to get to the point where you can sorta write like you would on a piece of paper... and you may as well have just been practicing on paper the whole time

I wouldn't recommend "なぞって覚える..." for improving writing (even if I do use it for my reviews when I don't have paper to spare or want to check stroke order). At least not if you try to get it to recognise what you write. I found that to get it to recognise some characters you have to really distort them (writing radicals separately, writing one larger than the other, just writing really slowly and hoping it will jump ahead of you and recognise the kanji before you finish). You can follow the example exactly and it still won't read the character correctly. Even simple characters like 子 or 力（ちから） are a nightmare to get accepted.

Not to say it isn't helpful (you still get the stroke order, the reading/production practice, extra tests on jukugo, place names, weather, jobs, etc. and so on), but you probably are better off looking else where for handwriting practice.

漢字そのまま楽引き辞典 is simply a must if you have a DS and study japanese. It's a really good dictionary and while it lacks several nice features new 電子辞書 has, it's just awesome for the price.

As for kanji training games, THE Kanji Quiz is the best one I've used. It lets you train reading, writing, radicals and other stuff like opposites. The level is pretty high though and you have to know a lot of Japanese to use it since it uses sentences for most of the training.

usis35 Wrote:

Is it that difficult to recognize characters input by the stylus in this program?

Correct stroke order plays a big part in the cpu recognizing the character for the other DS programs that I own. I can tell that the maker of this video has no concept of stroke order, but is the character recognition still that inaccurate assuming correct stroke order is used?

stehr Wrote:

usis35 Wrote:

Is it that difficult to recognize characters input by the stylus in this program?

Correct stroke order plays a big part in the cpu recognizing the character for the other DS programs that I own. I can tell that the maker of this video has no concept of stroke order, but is the character recognition still that inaccurate assuming correct stroke order is used?

No, he is just *really* bad at it. For kanji, it has some of the best character recognition I have ever seen. Even if I get the stroke order totally wrong (and sometimes even the number of strokes!), it will often show me the kanji I was trying to write.

I find that the main areas where recognition is maybe lacking a bit, is for non-kanji characters--hiragana, katakana, or english. There are buttons you can press to tell it "im writing hiragana" or something like that, and this improves the recognition significantly. It can still be a little fiddly though. I usually just use the onscreen keyboard for everything except kanji though.

I just got the sonomama dictionary and it's the best Japanese learning tool I've ever seen! (Maybe tied with anki). There are example sentences for everything I can think of. Does anyone know how to get it to show furigana when displaying japanese definitions?

Blahah Wrote:Does anyone know how to get it to show furigana when displaying japanese definitions?

Unfortunately you can't. You can quickly look them up on the dic though. It's a good exercise (maybe?).

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A new title for kanji writing practice: ユーキャン　ペン字トレーニングDS.

There's a new game called にほんごであそぼ.

Anyone checked it out? I've only spent a short amount of time with it, so I don't quite fully understand the point of it yet, but it seems pretty interesting. It seems like it's a sentence memorization game of sorts.

Each lesson is divided into 3 parts. In part 1, it shows you a sentence (with furigana on the kanji) and let's you listen to the sentence in spoken form. You can replay the audio and even play it at 3 different speeds. Next in part 2, it will show you the sentence but leave some boxes blank. On the bottom screen it shows a selection of characters that you can choose from to insert into the sentence, and you basically have to remember the whole sentence from part 1 in order to select the correct ones. Finally in part 3, its similar to part 2, but now instead of having you select the correct words from a list, you have to say the missing words aloud from memory. The speech recognition seems quite poor though, as it frequently marked me correct when I would say completely wrong things.

Zarxrax Wrote:There's a new game called にほんごであそぼ.

Anyone checked it out? I've only spent a short amount of time with it, so I don't quite fully understand the point of it yet, but it seems pretty interesting. It seems like it's a sentence memorization game of sorts.

I came to the same conclusion that you did. The idea is to memorize a few sentences, then be able to fill in the blanks when they quiz you. It'd be a lot easier if I understood the words. Hehe.

The sentences are quotes from famous books/poems. It's more of a literature study application than language study.

I found a website that has a huge list, some descriptions and some screen shots and stuff of a whole ton of Kanji games.

http://learn-japanese-ds.blogspot.com

My Japanese Coach is finally out, though I have yet to try it. A lot of my friends have bought it already and are talking about it though. Interestingly enough, I happened across a forum posting made by the lead programmer on the game, and he provided a link to his blog: http://thegameprogrammer.blogspot.com/20...iewed.html
Seems they are really interested in feedback on it.

My Japanese Coach is decent for learning japanese. On the bright side, it has 10,000+ words to learn and excellent native speaking for the words, which has fixed some of my pronunciation. on the other hand, it doesn't have any SRS program and you can't really go back to old lessons if they don't support the correct review type. It's good for studying what you already know on the go, but without SRS functionality it's pretty meh.

I'm playing it right now. I did the level test at the beginning and got all the questions right, and it still only skipped me ahead to lesson 11, of 100. Lesson 11 has words such as neko, hito, otoko no ko, etc. So the level testing sucks big time. They don't even ditch romaji until lesson thirty. There is supposed to be ten thousand words in it though, so I'll have to whip through the first fifty lessons perhaps and see what it's like then.

The other problem is that stroke order is often wrong, even for some kana, so you know that is really a pain. You can skip the writing practice parts though, mostly, and anyone doing Heisig isn't going to need too much kana practice methinks. These problems won't really get resolved either because it's a cartridge, I doubt there will be any wifi supported patching, although I suspect it's possible.