I'm curious if anyone else has had this experience while doing Heisig with an SRS. I see a keyword and draw a total blank, thinking there's no way I'll be able to remember how to write the kanji. Suddenly, something will click, and the whole story will come rushing back to me, allowing me to draw the kanji perfectly. This happened today with 簿. When I first saw the keyword "register," I wasn't even sure what kind of "register" it was referring to (cash register, computer memory register, the register at a hotel). But after two or three seconds, I could recall my entire story.

What is particularly interesting for me is that I've never before had this experience while studying any material, let alone kanji. When studying kanji through traditional methods I would occasionally be able to partially recover from a drawing a total blank, but if I initially drew a blank on a kanji like 簿, there's no way I'd be able to write they entire thing perfectly.

However, I've also never used an SRS before. So here's my question to those who have used an SRS in a non-Heisig context: is this kind of thing (drawing a blank for a few seconds and then getting full recall) a common experience for people using an SRS, or is it more likely the result of using structured mnemonics? It occurred to me that perhaps the reason I'm drawing a blank for a few seconds and then getting full recall is that the SRS is perfectly timed to push my memory to the absolute limit, and since I've never used an SRS before I've simply never had that experience.

I don't use mnemonics that much (generally no more than just saying the names of the primitives briefly in my head if that), but yes, I do find if I can write a small part of the kanji the rest comes easily. Irregardless of learning style from my experience.

nebusoku Wrote:is this kind of thing (drawing a blank for a few seconds and then getting full recall) a common experience for people using an SRS, or is it more likely the result of using structured mnemonics?

Yes. That's normal. Difficult recall increases memory stability.

Oh, and don't be worried about that happening for every character when you start reading Japanese text. RTK+Anki build stability, then reading practice builds comfort and fluency.

dizmox Wrote:I don't use mnemonics that much (generally no more than just saying the names of the primitives briefly in my head if that), but yes, I do find if I can write a small part of the kanji the rest comes easily. Irregardless of learning style from my experience.

I wouldn't rely on that. When I studied in a traditional way, without the Heisig style mnemonics, that happened to me too. I remembered a small part so I could write the whole kanji... only to find out, I wrote the wrong one. Writing primitives is really easy. Knowing which primitives are needed for each kanji, now that's the challenge. If you lack a story, you lack anything logical and meaningful to connect the primitives which make up the kanji. Therefor, it won't feel wrong when you use the incorrect composition.

You're using active recall cues (keywords, what primitives you can remember) to retrieve these complex structures, and the effects are exponential as multiple branches connect to other branches and on and on, so it's natural that they come in a rush once you trigger the association. The SRS, of course, makes this occur with increasing ease till it's instantaneous. I think this will be true for any kind of 'chunking' process of memorization you use, where you collect clusters of information under smaller headings.

As for the hesitation between the keyword and the recall, I know you weren't complaining, per se, but I think this means you should make the stories more associated with the keywords. Perhaps work the keyword into the beginning of the stories as well as picking a specific connotation for the ambiguous and similar words and really elaborating on those. Or use different keywords. Build up those associations the right way and they'll arrive quicker. In order for the recall and SRS to increase the stability of your memories, you must first work on making them very retrievable. Retrievability + Stability.

It's an interesting question though--I'm never quite 'aware' or 'conscious' of the actual effects of the SRS, it's just that when I first learn something, it's easy because I just learned it, then there's that period where it's really tested and either reviewing it makes it easier or I need to fail it and restudy it, and then it's kind of hard, then it's kind of easy, then it's really easy. ;p

There was also the time that I realized the keywords were just getting in the way and I no longer needed to review those kanji individually because I was using them in words.

Also, the bit about strengthening the stories when you have to 'fish' for a moment for the story/kanji, this goes along with discussions we've had about relearning being easier and how you should just fail a card if you have to work at it, then restudy it and change stuff when you need to (http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=1545 -- I like Katsuo's view on it: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...2#pid21242). I'm pretty gung ho about this, I have this conception of 'failing in layers' that I won't bore you with, but it means I'm fine with failing cards for the slightest reason. Also, embracing failure really takes the ease off tasks, since you can never be perfect.

Oops, and I'm not saying fail if it takes a moment or two, that would defeat the purpose hehe, I just mean be aware of when you're really struggling and ask yourself whether you want to pass it or set it aside for restudy (fail) and make adjustments.

Yes, that sounds like normal memory. Because you hadn't actually used it much, your mind takes a while to actually find where it put it. Once it found the key (the story), it found it quickly.

Don't worry about it. Everything is perfectly normal.

wccrawford Wrote:Don't worry about it. Everything is perfectly normal.

Do not attempt to adjust your television. Join us. These are not the droids you are looking for. Resistance is futile. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. You can trust me.