Hi everyone!
I´m currently studying Music Education (Bachelor´s degree), and even though I like it, I want to do something completely different next year. I´ve decided that I want to study Japanese - in Japan. Or at least that´s my current plan.
My problem is that I know little or nothing about the different Universities and the Japanese school-system. On the other hand I know that a lot of you guys are currently studying/living in Japan, and some of you have lived there.

I would really like to find a Japanese / International University, and not study at the language schools. I don´t know, I just want to get my hands dirty and start hanging out with Japanese from day one. I know that there are some good international language schools, but I´ve heard really bad things about them as well. I don´t want to hang out with English-speaking people when I´m over there, I want to get to know Japanese people! The tuition is pretty steep compared to Japanese schools as well, at least in general.
Therefore I´m hoping to find a Japanese University with a one-year program in either Japanese and/or Japanese Culture. The location is not that important, big cities are cool - small towns are cool as well! =)
I have found a couple of Universities that look good, but I would love to get some recommendations from you guys, especially if you´ve studied there yourself / know someone that has studied there.
It would be the perfect goal for my Japanese studies as well - to know that I´m going to live in Japan next year. Then I just HAVE to study hard, hehe! =)

I´m asking this now, since I know that it can take a long time to apply at a Japanese University / College, in addition to getting a student-visa.
Thank you guys so much! I really appreciate it!

Sincerely,
Zorlee

i wouldn't worry about hanging out with english speaking people. if you come to japan, it's completely up to you who you hang out with. big city or small city, this will always be the case.

regarding schools, i would highly recommend the genki language school in fukuoka. it's expensive, but i thought it was a highly valuable learning experience.

if you have a year to spend in japan, i think something like 3-6 months at a small school, and then 9-12 months on your own with some private teachers would be best. when i was a full-time student and part-time worker (to pay for class), i found myself with too little time. 9 months went by and i barely realized i was in japan. right now i do language exchanges and work full-time, and i find myself much more in tune with the country (and with a respectable bank account).

yamasa is also highly respected, but i don't care much for the town.

and for the most part, japanese universities separate the foreign folks from the japanese folks. or at least that's the impression i'm under.

A few things.

Yamasa has two programs, AIJP and SILAC. AIJP sucks full stop. SILAC has a niche. If you have basic grammar down and can understand basic input but want speaking practice then SILAC can have value. However, doing SILAC from scratch is a bad idea.

Generally speaking, all Japanese schools in the world are bad. You can do everything you can do in a language school by yourself for free at a MUCH faster pace. For a language school to be worth it the following factors need to be fulfilled.

1. You need to not be in the silent phase. In other words you need to have had a lot of input so that you are not thinking about grammar rules to output, just spitting out what pops into your head. This takes about 6 months of "AJATT"ing after RTK1.

2. The school must have a very big focus on communication between students, that is about interesting topics, involves engaging lead ins, has variety, mixes the students around to avoid boredom. New grammar and vocab can be involved, but the focus should be on promoting fun/involving communication. Note that communication practice is the only thing that a school can provide that you cannot get by yourself.

3. You must not have the ability to use Japanese with native speakers. If you have many chances to speak Japanese with real Japanese people, then this is much more valuable than school. It is also cheaper and more fulfilling. Once you are intermediate, unless you are particularly shy you should be able to get a bunch of Japanese friends. At which point you are better off just doing input/SRSing as your "study".

So basically, there is a small window where a great school (which I have seen no evidence of existing anywhere) can kickstart your speaking after the silent phase until you have enough Japanese to make friends (volunteering can be great here).

My advice is save your money because you will probably never have all these conditions fulfilled. Even if you do if you are using AJATT in your own time, you will blast past your classmates and soon no longer need the school.

thermal Wrote:A few things.

A pretty valid reason for language school is that it can get you into the country and get you a visa to stay for 2 years, only other way you are going to do that without knowing Japanese already is working in an English speaking job, which isn't going to help your Japanese all that much.

thermal, what about Yamasa`s AJSP (advanced) program? Is it worth it?

thermal Wrote:A few things.

Generally speaking, all Japanese schools in the world are bad. You can do everything you can do in a language school by yourself for free at a MUCH faster pace. For a language school to be worth it the following factors need to be fulfilled.

3. You must not have the ability to use Japanese with native speakers. If you have many chances to speak Japanese with real Japanese people, then this is much more valuable than school. It is also cheaper and more fulfilling. Once you are intermediate, unless you are particularly shy you should be able to get a bunch of Japanese friends. At which point you are better off just doing input/SRSing as your "study".

if i'm not mistaken, you live in japan, right thermal? if so, it's pretty easy to find native speakers and study on your own. but for people living outside of japan, i'm sure you can see the appeal of a school. after all, it gets you into the country for a long period of time and allows you to use the language and make friends. and... that's the reason we study, right?

a silent phase is fine, but you don't absolutely need it. i was forced to speak from day 1 (i was a rural JET for 2 years... i spent my first 6 months memorizing "phrases," so i hardly consider this period of time "studying." it was more like being a long-term tourist) and i don't find myself at a huge disadvantage. i've been studying seriously now for around 2.5 years. i'd say my measurable level is between ２級−１級。

besides, for some people (ME!), going to a school was a great way to boost confidence and really get the ball rolling. i never studied japanese, or heard japanese, prior to coming to japan. it was only after meeting people and learning about the country from the ground level that i decided to start studying.

one thing i'll say is this: the Genki school moves fast. the classes are small and the pace is rapid. if one wants to improve their communication skills, it's a great place to be. the classes are taught entirely in japanese and the host families are also very good. i had two great experiences being with two very different families. Genki is truly unique. and though it does have some drawbacks, i don't regret any of the time i spent there.

so to the OP, if you want to come to japan and attend a language school, i say go for it. there is no "best way" to study. i know all kinds of people that have achieved fluency. some took a traditional approach, and others took a different approach.

just because people don't blog about the traditional approach doesn't mean that it won't work.

Don't think thermal is advising against going to Japan in general. Just going for the sake of classroom study. Though, I agree with koyota. A good way into the country it be.

There are quite a few reasons why not to study japanese at a university.

1. Usually more expensive.
2. Much harder to get admitted.
3. The Japanese education is worse, you learn more at a good language school.
4. There will still be 0 natives in your classes, why would they want to study basic Japanese at a university? (No natives at the language school either though, obviously.)

The only real reason to go to a university instead of a language school is that you can join one of the clubs. This is of course a cool thing though since you actually will be with natives and use Japanese there.

I would also recommend going to a big city, like Tokyo, Osaka, Fukuoka or such. Life in Japan is cool but you get used to it in a month or two, and at that point, you will start to get horribly bored in the smaller cities.

Japanese universities seem to not have very good facilities for teaching Japanese.

If you want to study the language, I suggest you look into KICL in Kyoto. There's a large asian student base and it's considered the "best" school in Japan (it has the highest JLPT pass rate).

LazyNomad Wrote:thermal, what about Yamasa`s AJSP (advanced) program? Is it worth it?

I suggest emailing them to find out to confirm, but I believe there is no advanced program. They are probably referring to the class at the top level known as A class, which uses a different textbook from the intermediate classes. I studied there for 6 months and never met anyone or heard anything about the advanced program. Looking at the fees they are the same as AIJP.

So either it doesn't exist or it is A class. I studied an elective for taking the university entrance exam with A class students which was taught by A classes teacher and she overly focused on grammar as much as the other teachers I was taught by.

TGWeaver,

I lived in Japan for 2 years but am now back in my home country of Australia.

Thank you guys so much for your answers! =)
Well, as you guys guessed, my nr. 1 reason to study Japanese in Japan is to get a student-visa. I would prefer SRSing/Sentences in addition to just living there, maybe taking some other classes, but I think studying the language is the best option for me right now. I can´t get a work and travel visa, so this is my best bet. Any other options are welcomed though! =)

TGWeaver: Thank you for the great answer. You say that you work and do language exchanges over there. Is this a possibility for me, or have you gotten hooked up with a visa/wife/etc? Just wondering, since my main goal is to experience Japan, and not the classroom! =)

Tobberoth: Didn´t you study Japanese for 1 year in Japan? Where did you study? Do you recommend doing it, or should I look into something else? Thanks!

Personally I would love maybe 3 months of school, and then just travel and meet people, but I´m not sure if this is possible, due to visa-problems...

Anyway, thank you guys for the help! I´ll look into the different language programs, and see what looks interesting...

Another thing - If I attend a language school for say 2 months, will I get a student-visa for 1 year? (*crossing fingers for a visa loop-hole!* )

Zorlee Wrote:Tobberoth: Didn´t you study Japanese for 1 year in Japan? Where did you study? Do you recommend doing it, or should I look into something else? Thanks!

I did. I studied at a language institute called ISI Language School, situated in Shin-Okubo (korean area of Shinjuku). I went there as a complete beginner and passed JLPT2 the same year which says a lot about how effective it was. And that's from real knowledge of the language, not specific JLPT studies (my conversational Japanese is still my strongest asset, it's first now that I've started to use AJATT-style studies that my passive skill is getting way beyond my conversational skill. While living in Japan, I could more or less converse in Japanese at the same level I could read it. Very effective.)

At my school, we studied 4 hours a day, studying kanji, grammar, vocabulary and all that stuff, each day. The only thing that really lacked was essays. We wrote some Japanese, but generally not longer texts, we never had speeches. (The school does include that kind of training, but not until later classes).

Zorlee Wrote:Another thing - If I attend a language school for say 2 months, will I get a student-visa for 1 year? (*crossing fingers for a visa loop-hole!* )

Unfortunately, no. If you're not attending class, your school will contact immigration and you will be thrown out of the country. How strict the school is depends, but a school gets into a LOT of trouble if there's suspicion that they supply visas to people who aren't actively studying, so they hammer down pretty hard. At my school, if you weren't in attendance 90% of a month, you got a warning. Several warnings, and you're toast.

Wow, cool, I´ll check that out! 4 hours a day seems good, enough time for self-study and chilling! Did the teachers teach in Japanese only, or did they use English as well?
Hopefully I won´t be at the "beginner" stage, at least not in understanding Japanese - will they grade you based on ability, so that I don´t have to be in a really easy class, nor a very touch class?
With tuition and living expenses, was it really expensive? I´m trying to save as much as possible in addition to part-time working, but I don´t know what I should expect all in all.

Sorry for all the questions, but I´m trying my best to make this a reality, so I need as much information as possible, hehe! =)
Thank you so much!

Zorlee...

EDIT: I found their web-page, so I´m reading it now. But I´d like to know approximately how much money I should have in my pocket, before leaving...

If you are using AJATT whilst studying, my advice is try and game the level check. You will progress way faster than any of your classmates so you want to get in as high as you can. Find out what text books they use and make sure you know all the grammar points. Often they won't be common ones so you it's better to specifically study for it so you can get put into an advanced class as possible. If you can speak to students who are there about the level check. Have you done RTK1?

Some people did part time work at my school, so maybe you can do that.

Regarding the visa, when you finish school, the school informs immigration that you have stopped studying. You then have "a reasonable amount of time" to make your preparations, maybe do a final bit of traveling and then leave. My school told me I have about 2 weeks. However I was working and had to wait about 1.5 months before I could get my final pay packet and leave. I was worried that this was too long, so I went to immigration and asked them. A lady said that is fine and said that I could stay as much as 2-3 months without it being a problem.

My feeling is that they don't automatically check that someone who has finished studying has left the country, so you might be able to get away with staying the rest of the year.

BTW, on a student visa you are only supposed to work a maximum of 4 hours a day and you can't work in certain entertainment establishments. I personally was violating this by working 8 hours on Sunday, but nothing came of it. You also need to apply for a work permit.

I have gone through RTK 1, first part of Tae Kim, and I´m currently working through KO2001, and will be done KO2001 (hopefully) by christmas!
My problem, as I see it, is that almost all language schools start in October/April. That really messes up my bachelor´s degree, since I can only have one year off, without getting kicked out. (From July/August - July).
I would really like to go to a school with almost no Europeans/Americans, but I guess it´s hard to find. A school with only Koreans and Chinese would be ideal!

I checked out both the ISI school in Tokyo and the KICL school in Kyoto, and they both look great. But again, the problem is that none of them starts up in July/August, and if I were to live there for one year, I´d like to do a whole-year program (10-12 months).

Hey - slightly off topic. Does anyone know a good *short* intensive program in Japan - preferably Tokyo or maybe Fukuoka, but other places are possible? I'm here for a limited amount of time, and would love to just spend a few weeks doing like four hours a day. My schedule is always changing, so it's hard for me to do longer programs.

haplology Wrote:Hey - slightly off topic. Does anyone know a good *short* intensive program in Japan - preferably Tokyo or maybe Fukuoka, but other places are possible? I'm here for a limited amount of time, and would love to just spend a few weeks doing like four hours a day. My schedule is always changing, so it's hard for me to do longer programs.

Genki JACS in Fukuoka. perfect for what you're looking for.

Zorlee Wrote:TGWeaver: Thank you for the great answer. You say that you work and do language exchanges over there. Is this a possibility for me, or have you gotten hooked up with a visa/wife/etc? Just wondering, since my main goal is to experience Japan, and not the classroom! =)

i came over as a JET and then switched to the private world. i had a working visa, so i was able to study and work at the same time.

my guess is that some schools would be willing to allow you the following: a few months of study and some time to travel. if you studied for 2 months, took a two week break, and then studied some more to finish things off, you'd be alright. they may only allow a week, but that's a lot of time in such a small country.

if you try this option, a school like Genki would be best. they charge by the week, so it would be easy to arrange a schedule and what not. i'm not sure of any other school that charge by the week... most of them go in three month blocks.

it may also be a good idea to look into the "working holiday visa." i'm not sure what countries can apply for it... but it's something to look into. good luck, and feel free to message me if you have any questions about school or cities. i've been to around 4 schools total (though i only studied at three of them).

Zorlee Wrote:Wow, cool, I´ll check that out! 4 hours a day seems good, enough time for self-study and chilling! Did the teachers teach in Japanese only, or did they use English as well?
Hopefully I won´t be at the "beginner" stage, at least not in understanding Japanese - will they grade you based on ability, so that I don´t have to be in a really easy class, nor a very touch class?
With tuition and living expenses, was it really expensive? I´m trying to save as much as possible in addition to part-time working, but I don´t know what I should expect all in all.

Sorry for all the questions, but I´m trying my best to make this a reality, so I need as much information as possible, hehe! =)
Thank you so much!

Zorlee...

EDIT: I found their web-page, so I´m reading it now. But I´d like to know approximately how much money I should have in my pocket, before leaving...

You need a lot of money, that's for sure. 150 000 yen a month worked for me when I lived there (everything included). With that budget, I could go to a party every weekend (but only cheap izakayas like warawara, no expensive stuff). For that to work though, you need pretty cheap living... and prices may have gone up since I lived there. The school is pretty expensive as well, but I guess you saw that at their website.

As for your ability, they first let you read simply hiragana and katakana words, and ask you some questions. If you do well here, they let you take a test. If you pass it, you get to jump up a grade. If you don't pass it, you have to start in the fast beginner class. If you can't even read hiragana, you get put in the slow beginner class. The teachers use no English except in extreme cases where it's hard to describe a word using basic Japanese (in the beginner classes). The tests you have to take to skip a grade are similar to JLPT. If you're into KO2001 and your knowledge of grammar is good, I think you can probably jump up one class, but don't count too much on it. The tempo at the school is very high, jumping up beyond your level will severely limit you.

TGWeaver: Again, thank you for your information. Unfortunately I can´t apply for a Work and travel visa. Too bad, because that would be perfect for me!

Tobberoth: Thank you for the rough estimate. Hmm, I´ll have to save up a lot money then (kind of challenging as a musician, but hey, I´ll make it happen, hehe!)

Do you guys know of any good language schools that also start up in July/August/September? I want to be there for one year, but I´ll have to get back / graduate before the 15th of August to start up my Bachelor´s degree (if this makes any sense? Hehe).