liosama Wrote:

Sebastian Wrote:

Quote:Don't sit the JLPT

Wouldn't it be to tiring to be standing all the exam?

hahahahhaha

hehe. No no no, using 'sit' as a verb to replace 'take' shows how comfortable and 'in the know' you are when it comes to this kind of thing. It's kind of like omitting 'the' before 'university'. ("I went to university... " or "When I was at university... "). :)

This way, even when you're putting the JLPT down or even haven't taken it, it's like you're doing it from a place of easy authority!

It's a British thing.

thecite Wrote:have listened to Japanese media for a good 18 hours a day for the last 2 months,

You do anything for 18 hours a day, you are going to see some improvement. This just highlights why I think AJATT is a waste of time; I prefer to find ways to study to get maximum results in minimum time as I don't have 18 hours a day to devote to studying Japanese.

Yeah, but keep in mind that AJATT encourages you to lie about the time you actually spend studying by even counting sleep as "study time" if you have some Japanese audio in the background. It's just ridiculous that way.

Once again, you do not count the "listening" or the "reading" or the "watching" as studying. You still have to study 1, 2, 4, or even 8 hours a day to get good at Japanese. The AJATT part just makes your studying go the right way. By seeing Japanese all the time, you begin to notice your weaknesses and adjust your studying to compensate.

It's the studying part we discuss more often than not, but the enjoyment should not be understated. Can you imagine learning Japanese, but the only time you experienced it was during your study time?

nest0r Wrote:

liosama Wrote:

Sebastian Wrote:Wouldn't it be to tiring to be standing all the exam?

hahahahhaha

hehe. No no no, using 'sit' as a verb to replace 'take' shows how comfortable and 'in the know' you are when it comes to this kind of thing. It's kind of like omitting 'the' before 'university'. ("I went to university... " or "When I was at university... ").

This way, even when you're putting the JLPT down or even haven't taken it, it's like you're doing it from a place of easy authority!

It's a British thing.

I probably should start adding some "(笑)"s or emoticons at the end of some posts...

Thanks for your nice replay anyway.

P.S. : Sorry for the necromancing.

P.S. 2: I've started excercising, so that I can stand not sitting the JLPT this December.

P.S. 3: (笑)

Nukemarine Wrote:Once again, you do not count the "listening" or the "reading" or the "watching" as studying. You still have to study 1, 2, 4, or even 8 hours a day to get good at Japanese.

I wonder. My path to semi-literacy mostly came from reading manga and light novels all the time for six months, at least assuming I don't have a double personality who was studying hard while I was asleep.

Things certainly seem to move faster when I study (hence why I bother), but I'm really not convinced it's necessary in the general case.

So I just noticed that this is a month-old comment I'm replying to, but I guess I'm too far in to stop now.

~J

Codexus Wrote:Yeah, but keep in mind that AJATT encourages you to lie about the time you actually spend studying by even counting sleep as "study time" if you have some Japanese audio in the background. It's just ridiculous that way.

I agree it makes a lot of comments skewed. I also agree with NukeMarine that listening to japanese music or watching a drama doesn't go into your study time.
It just makes someone look like they're bragging or just weird. "I study 12 hours a DAY!"
No, you don't.

As for reading. I do think it can count as studying, but if you're just reading along something on a comfortable level and not challenging yourself/looking up words/watching out for new grammar structures, then you're just spending time having your dose of japanese. It doesn't mean its useless or anything but its not what anybody thinks when someone says Study.

Sounds like study isn't important [edit] in general [/edit], then.

~J

A Japanese person would prononuce it as "Don't shit the JLPT"...

woodwojr Wrote:Sounds like study isn't important, then.

~J

How? Studying is when you purposely try to learn new things systematically, whatever your system may be. Its the actual hard work, not just sitting back and watching some new Gokusen.

chamcham Wrote:A Japanese person would prononuce it as "Don't shit the JLPT"...

We just did command phrases the other week in English class at Japanese junior high. One of the commands was "sit" however one student told the other to "shit." I didn't have the heart to correct them and no one else had a clue.

Sebastian Wrote:P.S. 3: (笑)

Is this an actual Japanese-speaker thing on the internet, or just something that 外人 who're learning kanji do? I ask because I've seen it in the comments a couple times on 英語 blogs about Japan.

ruiner Wrote:

Sebastian Wrote:P.S. 3: (笑)

Is this an actual Japanese-speaker thing on the internet, or just something that 外人 who're learning kanji do? I ask because I've seen it in the comments a couple times on 英語 blogs about Japan.

Yes, Japanese people use this on the internet.

yukamina Wrote:

ruiner Wrote:

Sebastian Wrote:P.S. 3: (笑)

Is this an actual Japanese-speaker thing on the internet, or just something that 外人 who're learning kanji do? I ask because I've seen it in the comments a couple times on 英語 blogs about Japan.

Yes, Japanese people use this on the internet.

Could you link me to some examples? I will add them to my sources--I guess this is an addendum/variation to the other person's thread about Japanese forums.

In a way, that kanji kind of looks like a vertical emoticon. But I suppose you could say that about any kanji with the 'bamboo' primitive.

Erubey Wrote:How? Studying is when you purposely try to learn new things systematically, whatever your system may be. Its the actual hard work, not just sitting back and watching some new Gokusen.

Right. Whereas if you look up a bit, you'll notice that I mentioned that my transition from "illiterate" to "able to easily read material of up to moderate density" came from doing pretty much nothing more than sitting on my hindquarters and reading stuff I enjoy.

I say "in general" because to cover everything this way would require arbitrarily broad interests—I'm probably going to become able to read legal documents because I study how to read legal documents, for example, because at least right now I'm certainly not reading anything of that variety for fun. Nevertheless, if what I did wasn't studying (and I can totally understand not calling it that), it certainly suggests that studying isn't important for many stages of the learning process.

Edit: and it turns out that I didn't say "in general". I am rightly corrected, let me go fix that…

ruiner Wrote:Could you link me to some examples?

At the bottom
Several places
Towards the end

I haven't seen a native speaker put it in a postscript yet, though

~J

woodwojr Wrote:

ruiner Wrote:Could you link me to some examples?

At the bottom
Several places
Towards the end

I haven't seen a native speaker put it in a postscript yet, though

~J

Thanks. I tend to avoid sites like this because I can't be positive of the correctness. I was going to wait a long while before engaging them but I suppose I should start now, because once I figured out a way to Google "(笑)" without turning up every Japanese/Chinese use of that kanji, I discovered that apparently this LOL-esque use has been common for a while.

ruiner Wrote:

Sebastian Wrote:P.S. 3: (笑)

Is this an actual Japanese-speaker thing on the internet, or just something that 外人 who're learning kanji do? I ask because I've seen it in the comments a couple times on 英語 blogs about Japan.

All the time when you chat with them... not as common as just "w" out of most people though. They use a lot of others ones, too. （泣）（汗） etc.

Ah, these sorts of things are also rather common in interviews, like in magazines. Fiction that emulates that kind of style (dialogue with no narration) will also use them as well.

ruiner Wrote:Thanks. I tend to avoid sites like this because I can't be positive of the correctness. I was going to wait a long while before engaging them but I suppose I should start now, because once I figured out a way to Google "(笑)" without turning up every Japanese/Chinese use of that kanji, I discovered that apparently this LOL-esque use has been common for a while.

Why, do mangaka have a reputation for frequently using incorrect Japanese on their blogs?

~J

Geez, this post is still going....

woodwojr Wrote:

ruiner Wrote:Thanks. I tend to avoid sites like this because I can't be positive of the correctness. I was going to wait a long while before engaging them but I suppose I should start now, because once I figured out a way to Google "(笑)" without turning up every Japanese/Chinese use of that kanji, I discovered that apparently this LOL-esque use has been common for a while.

Why, do mangaka have a reputation for frequently using incorrect Japanese on their blogs?

~J

In my experience, online writing has a 'reputation' for frequently using enough incorrect native language outside of certain materials that I do not wish to utilize them as study materials. I speak of a diverse range of online writing and all manner of author. Perhaps now I'm at the level where my skill will allow for less energy to be used in filtering such materials, but only in small amounts. Till then most of my focus is on material that's been revised from multiple perspectives with the express purpose of being digested by a discerning public.

That is, I am being progressive in developing my native-like mental intuition through the consumption of corpora. But personally speaking, I'm here noting a nascent awareness that I've been a bit too complacent, hence my fixation on the (笑) usage.

While I understand and actually share your concern, I also feel it's worth pointing out that natives acquire their native-like mental intuition largely through exposure to un-revised material not intended for a discerning public.

QuackingShoe Wrote:While I understand and actually share your concern, I also feel it's worth pointing out that natives acquire their native-like mental intuition largely through exposure to un-revised material not intended for a discerning public.

Yes, but I want to learn quicker and with more limited resources, so. I am admittedly more stringent yet lazy than most in this regard, I block out tonnes of Japanese very deliberately, and study sometimes only 20 minutes a day. I am an enigma wrapped in nori dipped in panko. ;p