http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/e...729a1.html - Web-based flash cards will dazzle language learners

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/r...806a4.html - Flash card learning has its limits

Cons: I think the first has the same problem a lot of j-bloggers have, they just pick trendy affiliate type sites for Japanese-learning, to promote in a way that feels obsolete and inferior. The second one seems completely ignorant about self-study and the very scientific research they tout.

Pros: They both seem somewhat open-minded and enthusiastic!

It doesn't mention anki??

perhaps it's not web 2.0 enough. ;-)

on the plus side, it did get mentioned in a book: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/08/prweb2718844.htm

I think it's hilarious that the second one basically calls the first one BS (without giving any proof), then goes on to say how disappointed he is in the site for posting things that don't have any proof.

He's absolutely wrong about the value of flashcards, too. While they cannot create a complete learning experience, they do provide a valuable method of learning some of the information. I thought everyone at least admitted that SRS programs work for most people, if not everyone. Flashcards are just an un-optimized version of SRS.

Honestly, if I really thought I could get enough Japanese input in the same hours that I SRS, I'd much rather do that. But finding content that provides things I need to learn is tough, even at my low level. At higher levels, it's going to be impossible. Without a structured learning course, learning a language is -hard-. Or at the very least, extremely time-consuming. I simply don't have that time.

On the bright side, it seems ReadTheKanji has gotten even better! I'm really liking it... I need to start using it again.

Found this via BlackTokyo: http://thenihon-suki.blogspot.com/2009/0...rning.html

So not all of them are just promoting paper flash cards, expensive materials, or their affiliates' startup sites.

wccrawford Wrote:I think it's hilarious that the second one basically calls the first one BS (without giving any proof), then goes on to say how disappointed he is in the site for posting things that don't have any proof.

That's because the first one is an article, and the second one is a letter to the editor from some random person.

travis Wrote:

wccrawford Wrote:I think it's hilarious that the second one basically calls the first one BS (without giving any proof), then goes on to say how disappointed he is in the site for posting things that don't have any proof.

That's because the first one is an article, and the second one is a letter to the editor from some random person.

Well, to be fair, the first is a brief promo piece written by a blogger/language-learning marketing manager who also contributes to the Japan Times. Seth High is apparently an intelligent, experienced language educator in Japan, and his letter was vetted and given a proper venue in its publication. While technically accurate to call it a letter to the editor, I don't consider that format, in this case at least, to be 'mitigating' nor even a 'free pass'. Japan Times seems to desire an ostensible elevation to their 'letters to the editor' section as well, given the title 'Readers in Council'.

I read both articles and I think Koichi is just pointing out some great tools that people might otherwise not know about. He's not saying "this is the way, the truth and the light" now blindly obey. I've seen his youtube vids and he advocates a well rounded approach to study. Certainly not anything "unscientific". Although his stance on learning from native materials just pisses me off. It's basically a bad idea according to him.

The second article made a very solid point. Flashcards that have information that you have selected or gathered are much more effective for memory. Basically, find this stuff, learn it, retain it. Don't just click on links and expect Japanese to come to you.

mezbup Wrote:I read both articles and I think Koichi is just pointing out some great tools that people might otherwise not know about. He's not saying "this is the way, the truth and the light" now blindly obey. I've seen his youtube vids and he advocates a well rounded approach to study. Certainly not anything "unscientific". Although his stance on learning from native materials just pisses me off. It's basically a bad idea according to him.

The second article made a very solid point. Flashcards that have information that you have selected or gathered are much more effective for memory. Basically, find this stuff, learn it, retain it. Don't just click on links and expect Japanese to come to you.

My response is kind of in-depth but only as a half-hearted mental exercise, I don't feel that strongly, but since my posting it in a forum resulted in a certain level of give and take stickiness...

That person seems biased, and their recommendations aren't that great, and seem woven into a network of profit, even if only for social currency. My preference is dissemination of information based on the merits of that information, for the betterment of all, so in public spaces I will, with differering levels of criticism depending on the situation, offer my dissent and counter-recommendations.

The second article took one of the strengths and goals of SRSing--awareness of encoding memories for retrievability and maintaining the stability of those memories--to argue against the medium of SRSing w/o mentioning SRSing, in order to make an inaccurate point about flashcards (no context, huh? They say that like it's fact or a given rather than improper use to be remedied). The saddest part to me is that it seems unintentionally ironic, I think perhaps Mr. High honestly doesn't know about spaced repetition (or how to use flashcards appropriately), since he mentions rote memorization--but one could blame the first article for this, because I don't think they mentioned SRSing (no profit I guess, not trendy enough to promote).

Also, the way I see it, even if a flashcard doesn't itself contain a context (which would make it ultra-minimal given the sentence method and multimedia possibilites of Anki), the context that features so strongly when you're selecting and extracting data from materials and creating flashcards stays with you as long as you review in timely fashion.