This is concerning NI when it is used as the agent marker. I always knew this as mainly going with verbs in their passive forms only but I've just read this:



So, according to this, 先生に借りた can mean 'borrowed from the teacher,' right? But what's the difference between that and 先生に借りられた。

Also, is there some sort of list of all the most common verbs that can take NI-agent without being in their passive forms etc.?

Thanks!

Will add more grammar questions as I find them...

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:This is concerning NI when it is used as the agent marker. I always knew this as mainly going with verbs in their passive forms only but I've just read this:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2955/ni3grammar.jpg

So, according to this, 先生に借りた can mean 'borrowed from the teacher,' right? But what's the difference between that and 先生に借りられた。

Also, is there some sort of list of all the most common verbs that can take NI-agent without being in their passive forms etc.?

Thanks!

Will add more grammar questions as I find them...

Just let exposure show you which words use it, you don't need to study that specifically.

Anyways, に means the same in both your sentences.
僕が先生に本を借りた。 - I borrowed a book from my teacher.
本が先生に借りられた。 - The book was borrowed from the teacher.

Take note of how the subject changes.

Thanks as always Tobberoth!

Definitely think I should look at improving my grasp of viewpoints in Japanese.

Hi again! Just have a couple of questions here. The first concerns the word かかる

These extracts are taken from Yahoo Dictionary:
- http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8...2002970200

10.1) 他から作用・動作が及ぶ。「技が―・る」「ちっとも誘いが―・らない」
Okay, judging from the explanation I'd say this means receiving something? The examples just have me thrown a bit. 「技がかかる」, does this mean receive/have a skill passed down to you? Also, can anyone translate that second one into English?

15.2) 頭から押さえつけるような態度に出る。「かさに―・る」
Not entirely sure what this means. Could I have an explanation and an example?

24.2) その人によって作られる。その人の手になる。「空海大師の開基に―・る」
'to be made by that person.' I understand that much but I can't get the rest. Don't know what その人の手になる means and the example has me stumped.

28） 気分や調子が乗る。
And finally, not really sure what this means. Could anyone explain?

Okay, second of all is about the word 追う. Again, this is taken from Yahoo Dictionary.
- http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8...0602081000

３) 無理にその場所・地位などを去らせる。追い払う。追い立てる。「地位を―・われる」「子犬が―・っても―・ってもついてくる」「蠅(はえ)を―・う」
Shouldn't 子犬 be marked with を here?

And finally (for now) a question regarding causative and transitive verbs. There are times when I find it hard to differentiate which form I should use. I know causative involves making someone do something whereas transitive just requires an object. But for example, 象を動かす and 象を動かせる. What's the difference here. Are they both the same? Is one of them grammatically incorrect?

Thanks!

EDIT - Also, can anyone explain this Yahoo dictionary code to me? Couple of examples:

かか・る【掛（か）る／懸（か）る／係る】
［動ラ五（四）］

か・ける【掛ける／懸ける】
［動カ下一］［文］か・く［カ下二］

I'm assuming 'move, power, under' means transitive but I don't know what the rest means. Could someone help?

Just looking at the definition of かける. Was wondering if anyone could give me an example sentence for each of the following:

7.1) 自分で直接そのことをする。自分でそのことを扱う。「今まで手に―・けた仕事の数々」「手塩に―・けて育てる」
(this one has examples but I'm looking for something a little less... idiomatic if possible.

27) 測って比べる。
28) たとえる。かこつける。
29) 目標にする。
31) 掛け売りにする。