Yeah, 血液型占い is dumb. My ex-gf believed in it and all other types of hocus pocus fortune telling :/

You are more correct than you might know though. 血液型占い started with some western "studies" that suggested that Japanese are inferior to whites because the most common Japanese bloodtype (A iirc) isn't the same as the most common western bloodtype.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I don't think so, the ratio of Han ethnicity to others in China is not nearly as pronounced as that of the native-born Yamato people to non-天孫民族. Hong Kong is really small... North Korea is the personal manor of Kim Jong Il, Somalia is Hell on earth...

Didn't they all come from China at some point? Genetically, physically, and socially there's as much variation between them as any other culture. Why is an arbitrary line drawn and the title homogeneous given?

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I'm not sure why you wrote you want to be homogenous too... As to why you haven't heard of those other places it's probably because those other places (other than Hong Kong, which isn't and never was an independent nation) aren't as industrialized as Japan or the rest of the First World (Capitalist World of the Cold War Era).

I want to be homogeneous because it would give me a better sense of belonging to my community and justify my perceived awkwardness. But more than anything, I want to be homogeneous because that's what all humans are. We are all of the same kind or nature.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:And why do only industrialized nations receive such scrutiny? Because the Anglophone world, England, Canada, America, Austrialia, etc. is mostly industrialized nations and they like to study themselves and compare themselves to others like themselves. Unless you can read ethnological publications in Chinese or something, Japan as homogenous will be a major theme in East Asian-related ethnological, sociological (or related) publications/discussions.

Seems like it's a very pervasive idea

TheTrueBlue Wrote:

Quote:

Quote:Not every society looks at North America and its melting pot of cultures and thinks, "that's a great idea!"

Not even America thinks that. We be not as progressive as we seems. Me thinks.

America is pathetic when it comes to race issues. Progressive + America (of the present) don't typically belong in the same book, much less the same discussion.

That's a bit of an over generalization. Slow progression, even very very very very slow is still progression. I mean common, we just got a black President. It just happened to coincide with a time where the name and idea of the President was put through such shame that no one wanted the job, but it's progress, nonetheless.

Jarvik7 Wrote:You are more correct than you might know though. 血液型占い started with some western "studies" that suggested that Japanese are inferior to whites because the most common Japanese bloodtype (A iirc) isn't the same as the most common western bloodtype.

*turns head to side*

say waaaaaaaaa

You know, there is no so called "Japanese race". There are no Han Chinese either. In Chinas case it has been more of a cultural thing all along, or at least some Taiwanese and Chinese friends told me so. This whole heritage, blood or whatever one might call it issue is highly overrated. Kind of makes me remember that essay in which professors, managers and other people who should have received sufficient education were asked if people without "Japanese blood" could ever become Japanese. Of course most of them were all "No way!". Yet, when they were asked about famous "Japanese" people who are actually of Chinese or Korean heritage some of them said "Oh, yes, they can be Japanese if we do not know about their heritage!".
There are some really stupid people on this planet.

Also, (blood type) fortune telling makes me cringe!

All this is telling me is it seems these Japanese emigrants did a good job of adopting their host culture.

Now I have a mental image of a Latin parade going down a street populated solely by dancing Japanese people.

Jarvik Wrote:EVERYONE is an immigrant there. Cultural programs are in place since they had to populate a country that started out with a population of 0 after the territory was gifted to them.

Oh what about Native Jews? and Palestinians? I'm pretty sure they were living there first... until the state of israel was constructed solely by the dispossession, slaughter and massacre of Palestinians and their land.

I don't mean to troll, I just like to clear up statements which appear to be factual that wrongly justify the existence of a thing called israel.

I wasn't justifying Israel. The land was taken unfairly, but it's not realistic to just give it back at this point. However, you yourself just agreed with what I said, that Israel is a country created by political decree and thus had no citizens at first. Sure there were already people on that land, but they weren't Israelis.

Well by "populate a country that started out with a population of 0" to me, read like it was taken out of a zionism101 text book who falsely claim that Palestine was vast and empty, thus justifying its colonization. I just wanted to clear that up that's all.

I must have read it out of context or something.

Under Japanese law, a 2世 is a Japanese national regardless of where he/she was born. In her case, her parents probably neglected to, or decided not to, get Japanese nationality for her. Even in such case, a 2世 is entitled to a special immigration status.

http://ameblo.jp/skr-legal/entry-10070002368.html

But if she doesn't speak fluent Japanese, and doesn't have valuable expertise, it's hard to find a job in Japan anyway, so it may not be what she is most concerned about.

As for where Japanese "race" came from and/or whether or not it exists, you might want to check out this comic book.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%...=pd_cp_b_2

It's based on academic studies and, I believe, is pretty much along the line with what Japanese kids learn in history class. You'll learn Japanese history and probably pick up a new word or two. 一石二鳥, isn't it?

Why is Moses on the cover?

lol, I think that's 卑弥呼.

masaman Wrote:Under Japanese law, a 2世 is a Japanese national regardless of where he/she was born. In her case, her parents probably neglected to, or decided not to, get Japanese nationality for her. Even in such case, a 2世 is entitled to a special immigration status.

Only if the parents are still Japanese citizens when the child is born. Even if they are, the child is legally required to choose their citizenship by the time they are 20, although many illegally hold dual citizenship long afterwards.

Why does Japan make them choose between citizenships?

masaman Wrote:Under Japanese law, a 2世 is a Japanese national regardless of where he/she was born. In her case, her parents probably neglected to, or decided not to, get Japanese nationality for her. Even in such case, a 2世 is entitled to a special immigration status.

亜由美 (the mother of my boy) did mention that there was some paperwork her parents failed to fill out that could have saved her and her siblings many head-aches.

I am not sure she actually wants to be Japanese though. She feels a deep resentment toward Japanese people because she feels there is prejudice against 2世 even if they are fluent in Japanese. She refuses to date Japanese men or even have Japanese friends, limiting her social life to spending time with other factory workers.

Jarvik7,
Yup. And 1世 parents are most likely Japanese citizens. It is actually at the age of 22 that people need to choose their citizenship, but in realty, Japanese government isn't enforcing that rule strictly if at all. Even ex-Peruvian president Fujimori is a Japanese citizen according to Japanese government and he is so not under 22.

ropsta,
Japan technically doesn't allow dual citizenship but it gives a grace period until people are old enough to choose their own citizenship.

bodhisamaya,
It's sad she ended up feeling that way. Working in Brazil sounds more fun than working in a car factory in Mie to me and maybe she doesn't want to stay in Japan even if her Visa permits. I hope things work out.

bodhisamaya Wrote:

masaman Wrote:Under Japanese law, a 2世 is a Japanese national regardless of where he/she was born. In her case, her parents probably neglected to, or decided not to, get Japanese nationality for her. Even in such case, a 2世 is entitled to a special immigration status.

亜由美 (the mother of my boy) did mention that there was some paperwork her parents failed to fill out that could have saved her and her siblings many head-aches.

I am not sure she actually wants to be Japanese though. She feels a deep resentment toward Japanese people because she feels there is prejudice against 2世 even if they are fluent in Japanese. She refuses to date Japanese men or even have Japanese friends, limiting her social life to spending time with other factory workers.

So for 2世 who look and speak as conspicuously as any native-born and raised Japanese person, they can make friends, go shopping, maybe look for a home, but as soon as they (in one way or another) let it be known that they are 2世 (buying a home, get drunk and yell something in Portuguese), the way many of their former "friends" looks at them changes?

I wonder what it is that would change the behavior of those who do change their behavior towards 2世. What specifically are they afraid of? What is it that they hate or resent?

For all they know the person could just be lying to test the depth of the friendship (although I'm not sure anyone would dare to brave social suicide in this manner). The point is, there's no perceivable difference right? But what differences are usually attributed to Nisei? Are they supposed to be not as intelligent or honest as native-born Japanese? I know right-wingers probably would blame typhoons on 2世 if the chance came up, but what are the prevailing stereotypes and where are they coming from?

I don't see any in the monbusho site. I saw them in Japanese consulate fliers and in the Japanese embassy website. You could check these in your country.

The current $/￥ exchange rate makes it about $4,200 now. The program is voluntary so I am not sure if I agree with her view.
This is an email 亜由美 sent me this morning over the issue:

It's for people who are in extreme conditions and can't afford a life in Japan or a ticket back to Brazil. The government wants to reduce the Brazilians in Japan so they're taking advantage of this bad economy and making people who don't have a choice go back home and never come return because they have to signed a document where they agree to accept 400.000yen to go back home and in exchange they give up on their visas no matter if they're Nisei or permanent residents. My family decided to go home before they didn't have any more money so fortunately they didn't use the government's money. I think that it's a cruel way of threatening people who have their origins in this country.

Whether you agree with her view or not, this is the sort of image this program is conveying to her and thousands of others. There's no way to spin this into a positive. Not for me at least.

bodhisamaya,
Whoa, that's bitter... While I don't agree with her on Japanese government "taking advantage of bad economy", she, and her pals, probably have reasons to believe they are not treated equally and I feel sorry for that. They are not impeccable though. I mean, if she doesn't read 漢字, it pretty much means she is illiterate, in Japanese anyway. And you can't really complain you can't find a job if you are illiterate regardless of where you are. It would be hard here in the US too and I can only assume the situation isn't much better in Brazil. It just takes several seconds for me, and other average Japanese people, to dig up an article like this

http://www.asahi.com/politics/update/051...10259.html

plus another 30 seconds to read through it and understand what's going on, while she is relying on verbal communication with her Brazilian friends. It's obvious which one of us has a more competitive edge in the job market.

She may not realize it but it looks to me that her biggest asset is her ability to speak 3 languages. As we all know, acquiring languages as different as Japanese and English/Portuguese is not exactly a peace of cake. Not many people can achieve professional proficiency in both Japanese and a Western language and although she's not there yet, she has the potential, and if I were her, I'd put studying 漢字at the top of my list and try to find a job that can exploit my language skills. Of course, going back to Brazil to get a degree may be a good idea too.

Just my 2 centavos. Hope this doesn't sound impertinent.

ropsta Wrote:Whether you agree with her view or not, this is the sort of image this program is conveying to her and thousands of others. There's no way to spin this into a positive. Not for me at least.

So Japan should just let it slide and make them homeless? A lot of them are already receiving unemployment benefits for months from the government and it's not like Japan has mountains of money trees, especially with the economy like this. It's obviously not "positive", but then what's the better idea? I dunno....

I am kind of torn on the issue. Those factory jobs the Brazilians have traditionally had are gone forever. The Japanese just can't compete with China with its cheap land and labor force. The majority of Brazilian Nisei, unlike the Chinese working in Japanese factories, can not speak or read Japanese and so will never be able to compete in the shrinking Japanese economy.
亜由美 is unique among those Brazilian factory workers I met in that she did become fluent in English through private study. Unfortunately she does have a Brazilian girl's passion (temper) having grown up there. I can not immigrate her to America because on her last trip to Hawaii she was taken aside randomly for questioning and got into a yelling match with the customs agent thinking she was being singled out. She is never allowing on American soil again.

bodhisamaya Wrote:I am kind of torn on the issue. Those factory jobs the Brazilians have traditionally had are gone forever. The Japanese just can't compete with China with its cheap land and labor force. The majority of Brazilian Nisei, unlike the Chinese working in Japanese factories, can not speak or read Japanese and so will never be able to compete in the shrinking Japanese economy.
亜由美 is unique among those Brazilian factory workers I met in that she did become fluent in English through private study. Unfortunately she does have a Brazilian girl's passion (temper) having grown up there. I can not immigrate her to America because on her last trip to Hawaii she was taken aside randomly for questioning and got into a yelling match with the customs agent thinking she was being singled out. She is never allowing on American soil again.

The immigration can be pain in the butt, I once got handcuffed and strip searched for a missing stamp on a travel document. Damn them. But they are just doing their job I guess. Excuse my poor reading comprehension, but by "she is never allowing", did you mean she doesn't want to come anymore? cause if it is "she is never allowed", it sounds like something is awfully wrong.

masaman: 出る釘は打たれる

She was likely denied entry and banned for x number of years for causing a scene at immigration. ..or maybe she was put onto a terrorist watchlist.

Jarvik7 Wrote:masaman: 出る釘は打たれる

She was likely denied entry and banned for x number of years for causing a scene at immigration. ..or maybe she was put onto a terrorist watchlist.

Yea, she's brave, I wouldn't even make a sarcastic comment. I just don't want to be too nosy so I wanted be crystal clear. In 10 years of immigration agony I went through until I got my green card, I have gone through a LOT of things, spent over 10k dollars on lawyers(well, my company money), and that experience tells me you wouldn't get banned for causing a scene at the immigration, ESPECIALLY if you were a mother of an American citizen. You may get sent back, I got sent back once too, but banning is pretty serious and is not something immigration officers at the gates make the call. Of course, I have never dated a Brazilian girl before so I don't know how passionate they could get. She might have hit (assaulted) them, and THAT could be really serious.

P.S.
My finger prints are on the FBI "Watch list" too, according to the immigration officers. Oh well.

It is apparently very easy to get put on a terrorist watchlist for such things, and it acts as a defacto ban from the country since afaik you aren't allowed in without a visa application (aka no visa waiver).