So I've been compiling lists of phrases I hadn't heard, or phrases for which I didn't know the kanji into lists. And I'm wondering if this was an incredibly inefficient way to become a natural-kind of Japanese speaker or even writer, that is: the goal being that it wouldn't be at all obvious I had learned this all second-hand, but rather had simply grown up with it.

For example, here is the list of every almost single kanji in the first few Yostuba chapters that I made to study a while back: (Btw, it's a personal study list, so not all the definitions may be 100% spot on, but I encountered them in contextual use so it's fine.)

Romaji is what's needed to be typed in IME to bring up the appropriate kanji, separated for kanji they apply or (if it's obvious) convenience.

Yotsuba 1: In order of appearance.

Pre: 祝開店 iwai kai ten (Congratulations New Opening of Store)
Pre2: 終了 shuu ryou (ending, termination)
Pre3: 待望 Tai bou (expectations)
Pre4: 連載 ren sai (serialization)

1 眩しい mabu shi i (Dazzling)
2 日差し Hi za shi (Rays of Sun)
3 笑顔 Egao (Smile)
4 危ない abunai (Dangerous)
5 久しぶり Hisa shiburi (Long time no see!)
6 働く hatara ku (Work, Labor)
7 体力 tai ryoku (Physical Strength)
8 低下 tei ka (Decline, Decrease)
9 近所 kin jyo (Neighborhood)
10 粗品 so shina (Small gift, e.g. when moving to new area)
11 配る kuba ru (To distribute/deliver)
12 用意 youi (Preparation, Readiness)
13 頭 atama (head)
14 片付ける kata tsu ke ru (Tidy up)
15 嗜好 shi kou (one's taste, preferences)
16 腹減った hara he tta (to be hungry)
17 捨てる su te ru (to throw away, discard)
18 引越す hi kko su (to change one's residence)
19 ダンボール (Cardboard)
20 資源ごみ shi gen gomi (recyclable trash)
21 電柱 den chuu (Telephone pole)
22 燃える moeru (to burn)
23 事等 koto nado ( (other) matters, "etc.")
24 遠慮なく en ryo naku (Have no reservations, don't hesitate to ask for help)
25 探す sagasu (To search for)
26 注意 chuu i (Caution)
27 逸れる So reru (To stray)
28 随分 Zui Bun (Very, extremely)
29 辺 Hen (Vicinity)
30 変わった Kawatta (Different, Peculiar)
31 反動 han dou (Recoil, Backlash)
32 押す osu (To Push, To Press Down)
33 隣 tonari (Neighbor, next to)
34 空き屋 A ki ya (vacant house)
35 途中 to chuu ((something happened) on the way)
36 公園 Kou en (park)
37 向こう mu kou (Opposite side)
38 緑 midori (Green)
39 方 Hou (Side, Direction)
40 走る Hashiru (To Run)
41 ビル (Building)
42 お嬢ちゃん O jyou chan (Young lady)
43 迎え mu kae (To return, to greet)
44 全力疾走 zen ryoku shi ssou (All One's Power to Dash Away)
45 捕まえ tsukamae (to catch something (e.g. hunting, captured) )
46 連れて行く tsu re te i ku (to bring along someone of lower status)
47 長女 chou jyo (Eldest Daughter)
48 次女 ji jyo (second Daughter)
49 末っ子 sue kko (youngest child)
50 遠く tooku (far away)


Yotsuba 2:

51 朝だ asa da (it's morning!)
52 牛乳 gyuu nyuu (cow's milk
53 返事 hen ji (answer))
54 挨拶 ai satsu (greeting)
55 追いかけて oikakete (to chase)
56 言い方 ii kata (way of speaking)
57 違う chigau (different, incorrect)
58 二度寝 ni do ue (going back to sleep, 2nd sleep session)
59 寝る neru (to sleep)
60 壊れた kowareta ("it broke")
61 無理 muri (impossible, difficult)
62 覚えて oboete (to remember)
63 靴 kutsu (Shoes)
64 交換 koukan (replace, exchange)
65 留守番 rusuban (home-sitting)
66 茶碗 cha wan (rice bowl)
67 怪しい ayashii (suspicious)
68 ご迷惑 go mei waku (annoyance, bother, burden)
69 適当 teki tou (suitable, appropriate)
70 慰め nagusa me (consolation, comfort)

Yotsuba 3:

71 地球温暖化 chi kyuu on dan ka (global warming)
72 お礼 orei (gratitude)
73 用事 you ji (tasks, things to do)
74 暑い atsui (hot weather)
75 効く kiku (to be effective) e.g. nani ga " "
76 寒い samui (cold weather)
77 冷え性 hi e shou (sensitive to cold)
78 機械 ki kai (mechanism, appliance)
79 二階 ni kai (2nd Floor)
80 部屋 he ya (room)
81 大まかに言うと oo maka ni iu to (generally speaking)
82 北極 ho kkyoku (North Pole)
83 氷 koori (ice)
84 沈む shizumu (to sink, feel depressed)
85 嫌い kirai (to dislike, hate)
86 寝室 shin shitsu (bedroom)
87 見損なった mi soko natta (to have misjudged "someone")
88 省電力 shou den ryoku (Energy Saving "appliance")
89 冷やす hi ya su (to cool down)
90 見直した mi nao shita (to review, to look again, to form a better opinion of)
91 町内会 chou nai kai (Neighborhood Association)
92 渡して書いて wata shite ka ite [e.g. followup: morae ba ii] (To hand this over and have it filled out by " ")
93 正解 sei kai (correct interpretation, well done)
94 大げさな oo ge sa na (grandiose, exaggerated)
95 失敗 shippai (failure)
96 許せない yuru se nai (unforgivable)
97 先 saki (previous, tip or end of something)
97 幅 haba (width)
98 計る Hakaru (to measure)
99 怖い　kowai　（Scary)
100 鳴る naru (to sound, roar, rumble)
101 合図 aizu (sign, signal)
102 服着た方が良い fuku ki ta hou ga yoi (good fashion sense)
103 回覧板 kai ran ban (circulated notice)
104 回って mawatte (to turn, to visit several places)
105 怒られた okorareta (to become angry, to get scolded)
106 風呂 fu ru (bath)
107 洗濯機 sen taku ki (washing machine)
108 合ってます (to fit, to be appropriate, to match)
109 助かる tasu karu (to be saved)
110 取って totte (to take, to pick up)
111 犯罪者 han zai sha (criminal)
112 何才 nan sai? (how old are you?)
113 未確認飛行物体 発見 mi kaku nin hi kou bu ttai (UFO) ha kken (detected) (lit. Oh my goodness!)
114 ズボン zubon (trousers)
115 友達　tomo dachi (friend)
116 意味　i mi (meaning, definition)
117 奥さん　oku san (lady, madam)
118 先祖　Sen zo　（Ancestor)
119 冗談　jyou dan (joke)
120 邪魔 ja ma (hindrance, obstacle)
121 知り合い shiriai (acquaintance)
122 裸 hadaka (nude)
123 回収 kai shuu (to pick up, to collect, recovery)
124 緊張 kin chou (tension, anxiety)
125 微妙 bi myou (doubtful, questionable)
126 玄関 gen kan (entryway)

Yotsuba 4:

127 置いてくる oitekuru (to put in its place)
128 泣かないで下さい naka nai de kudasai (please don't cry)
129 超強い chou tsuyoi (super strong)
130 戦い tatakai (to fight)
131 神社 jin jya (shrine)
132 民間 min kan (privately owned, e.g. corporation)
133 危険 kiken (DANGER)
144 乗る noru (to ride)
145 大声 oo koe (loud voice)
146 鳥よけの風船 tori yoke no fuu sen (bird repelling small balloon)
146 長い nagai (long)
147 しんどい shin doi (tired, weary, bothersome)
148 速い hayai (quick)
149 全部 zenbu (everything)
150 競走 kyou sou (running race)
151 勝つ katsu (to win)

Yotsuba 5:
152 必要 hitsu you (need, necessity)

.... etc.

I also have other lists for other media, shows, etc. Is this contextual phrase type of learning (review until I can read and write them, then come back in a week or so and do it again for previous lists) much worse than simply memorizing on, kun readings? お願いします。

Different methods work for different people, so I'm not sure what would be the best way. But are you using SRS? If not, you might be wasting a huge amount of time and effort. SRS is a must-have if you ask me. I know some people don't find it very useful, but I believe most of the members of this forum are using it. You can take advantage of it regardless of whether or not you do context based learning.

If my memory serves me, you said you didn't know AJATT. I wouldn't say it definitely works for you or it's the only way to acquire native fluency. But if you haven't read the AJATT blog, I think it's worth taking a look at. There are blog entries about SRS, too.

The author of the blog says you can be fluent in Japanese in 18 months starting from scratch. He also says you can be as fluent as native speakers if you keep learning. I'm learning English using his method (a little tweaked version, but basically the same). If your aptitude for language learning is as good (bad?) as mine and if you learn Japanese hardcore, I don't think it will take longer than 2-3 years to pass for a native speaker. At least your Japanese will be way better than my English by then.

You will soon realize it's not that difficult to fake fluency if your pronunciation is good. If I remember correctly, you said you don't have a foreign accent. So I guess it's really easy for you. You seem to hold yourself to a very high standard, and you may need more time to be satisfied with your fluency. But I think it's a matter of time. But then again, no one knows what works for you.

Anyway, I'd like to thank you. I mined a bunch of sentences from your posts. Well, I know you don't understand what I'm talking about because you don't know what AJATT is. But, er, it's a nice thing. You may not know it, but you have helped me improve my English.

magamo Wrote:You will soon realize it's not that difficult to fake fluency if your pronunciation is good. If I remember correctly, you said you don't have a foreign accent. So I guess it's really easy for you.

That's a nice thought, gotta work on the pronunciation!

magamo Wrote:I mined a bunch of sentences from your posts.

This makes me unbelievably paranoid. I hope I haven't furnished you with woefully inadequate English at some point in the past

This is essentially how I 'permanently' learn words that I hear in context. I check every single RTK kanji I come across one by one in several dictionaries (yamasa, Jishop, random edicts) I say to myself "oh so this is the kan in kanryou and ryou in ryoukai。 I have not really gone to all the bother as you have, or chucked them into an SRS because it was just stuff I randomly acquired from anime and games over time (obvious from those two given words ).

So you are already half way there, you have yourself a nice list, the next thing is SRS do it, don't make the same mistake I did. These are the words you win for free. The on readings you pretty much grasp simply from the words,完 for example stuck with me forever as kan since i know couple of words with this character, kanpeki, kanryou, kanzen etc. All of these I got contextually but others don't stick so well and that is because I haven't SRS'ed

Have you finished RTK? I forgot, I'm still only ~60% through.

You say phrase-based but they seem to mostly be single words? I'm mostly making the distinction because I personally think it's a lot more useful to learn words in whole phrases or entire sentences because contextual usage is more important than definitions, and want to recommend that approach for consideration. Also, SRS.

(I only glanced at your list, but 片付ける is かたづける, not かたつける. Careful on that sort of thing.)

I don't know if it helps you any, but almost all of those phrases above are pretty common and are well worth learning. Yotsuba is a great series for that... They rarely get into uncommon words.

liosama Wrote:I say to myself "oh so this is the kan in kanryou and ryou in ryoukai。

I do the exact same thing. I've seen the japanese do this when explaining stuff and somehow I just started doing that automatically. I think it is helpful chaining the kanji together like that, dunno why exactly (it feels good I guess ).

@TheTrueBlue, thanks for posting those lists, I noticed that I knew most of those words.
I'm totally going to start reading yotsubato now.

magamo Wrote:Different methods work for different people, so I'm not sure what would be the best way. But are you using SRS? If not, you might be wasting a huge amount of time and effort. SRS is a must-have if you ask me. I know some people don't find it very useful, but I believe most of the members of this forum are using it. You can take advantage of it regardless of whether or not you do context based learning.

If my memory serves me, you said you didn't know AJATT. I wouldn't say it definitely works for you or it's the only way to acquire native fluency. But if you haven't read the AJATT blog, I think it's worth taking a look at. There are blog entries about SRS, too.

Roger that, I'll check them out.

magamo Wrote:At least your Japanese will be way better than my English by then.

You mean spoken right? With your written English you could pass yourself off as an U.K.-born English professor. No flattery intended, just an honest evaluation.

magamo Wrote:Anyway, I'd like to thank you. I mined a bunch of sentences from your posts. Well, I know you don't understand what I'm talking about because you don't know what AJATT is. But, er, it's a nice thing. You may not know it, but you have helped me improve my English.

Mined English? Hmm, I have read of people here "mining sentences," I'll look into it, thanks for the feedback.

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@liosama, get SRS techniques and studying ASAP, roger that. Thanks for the info.

@QuackingShoe, I can usually remember the storylines in Yotsuba though without too much effort, because it was so simple, but always memorable for being funny and entertaining. But I wrote phrase-based in the sense that I didn't meet these kanji without a proper use for them also being in the deal.

And yeah, that "片付ける is かたづける, not かたつける" thing from way back was a bad habit of mine. I still remember losing 10 points on a Japanese quiz back in college because of it hahaha.
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nonpoint Wrote:@TheTrueBlue, thanks for posting those lists, I noticed that I knew most of those words.
I'm totally going to start reading yotsubato now.

Yotsuba is hilarious.

I remember reading a review where the columnist wrote: "Yotsuba somehow makes you feel inside the same child-like wonder we all felt when we were younger. Don't think you can bust a gut laughing at or get excited learning about air conditioners or weather? Try Yotsuba!"

Enjoy.