I haven't found any online compendiums of 尊敬語,　謙譲語, or　丁寧語　that's comprehensive and readily available to English learners.

Hopefully this thread can shed some light for those who aren't familiar with, but greatly admire and wish to learn of the deeper honorifics of the Japanese language.

Starting this thread off:

Maybe よろしくお願いします　and 初めまして can suffice for 95% of the interactions or 紹介 in Japan. The most polite I've ever seen on TV was an episode of そこが知りたい　where a female field correspondent greeted a famous physics professor with どうも初めまして。

But I've encountered other kinds of greetings and honorifics that I can't find definitive info on, for example:

お目にとまっていただけたら光栄です

or

お目にかかれて光栄です

Is the first one more polite than the second? They come from letters addressed to the 天皇。

A common response I get from Japanese friends is "They're both super polite. It's all good." And I reply that for common usage sure, but I'm not asking about common use, I'm asking about what may be literature or university level study of Japanese or Japanese linguistics, there is an answer that those higher areas of study can provide. And they go "Saaa" (笑）。

Also after such a greeting, I've heard of something along the lines of:

douzo omishiryokyou
or
douzo omoishirikyou

but no combination of kanji and hiragana (e.g. どうぞ臣知りょう共) pop up in dictionaries or on google.

Is anyone familiar with this phrase?

Also it can be terribly difficult without an example to try and figure out whether certain language is suitable ONLY for servants or can also be used by lower ranking celebrities or statesmen to higher ranking ones. If there was only a way for English speakers to access this information readily.
お願いします。

I think お目にとまっていただけたら光栄です is politer than お目にかかれて光栄です, but maybe it's just me. Both are very polite and, I think, fall nicely into the category of "same difference."

The douzo + something you're looking for is most likely どうぞお見知りおきを。It's a greeting you use after you introduced yourself. Sales staff often use it. Since it's a greeting, it means nothing at all. It could be translated as "I am glad/pleased/delighted to make your acquaintance."

I don't know if there are study materials for that kind of honorifics designed for English speakers, but I'm guessing there isn't because anyone who learns advanced honorifics is supposed to be fluent in Japanese, i.e., they don't need dumbed down textbooks and will use materials for native speakers.

It's like you're asking for an English textbook written in Japanese that teaches something like:

I was wondering if it might be possible for me to (Insert what you want to do in a pretentious way.)
I would be most grateful if you could (Insert your order using big words taken from your thesaurus. Oxford University Press is your friend.)
I apologize for any inconvenience this might have caused. (Say this when you totally screwed up something very important. You don't need to know what this means. Just say it.)

I don't think anyone who has to say these things in English uses textbooks readily available to your average learner. Far be it from me to tell you what to do, but you might want to learn easier stuff first so you can ask that in Japanese.

Thank you very much for the help.

I guess I'll look up the phone numbers of Japanese language depts at Toudai and try my best to pretend to be a student or something, if I decide to pursure this further.

I have to deal with a ton of 雅語 in technical journals and translations of science textbooks in Japan. It's mind numbing. It's strange how no textbooks of technical Japanese really address this straight on from what I have seen. Also, it's strange that they would use a language form that even most Japanese people would find difficult to understand for science if part of the goal of these journals is to get people interested in science.

I understand your grief regarding 敬語. It's almost like it's a completely seperate language. I'm currently studying this in my university course. The textbook we are using is 日本語敬語トレーニング (Nihongo Keigo Training) by Kaneko Hiroyuki. It's not a bad book and explains many of the elements quite well with examples, though the whole book is written in Japanese, and I would recommend that you had atleast low intermediate knowledge of the language for it to be any real use.

A master gives a command to a servant, to which the servant replies:

光栄に見合う口触れます(？)

koei ni miau guchi furemasu(?)

Is there such a response, or one that is phonetically similar? Would it classify as 尊敬語,　謙譲語, or　丁寧語?

Subtitled as "I'm honored to be of service", google replies: No results found for "光栄に見合う口触れます".

So I'm guessing it's wrong at some point or another.

お願いいたします。

TheTrueBlue Wrote:に見合うます(？)

koei ni miau guchi furemasu(?)

You really need to give more info in the future eg. what is the command? did you type this from listening or is it from a transcript? etc...

Perhaps, if you typed it from listening, you have misheard it slightly (eg. missed a pause/punctuation, missed a particle, etc...). The way it is written sounds bizarre to me and my girlfriend. Also, I would call this 丁寧語 as written here, but I am uncertain. Basically, I think you need to listen to it again if that's where it came from. Otherwise, we still don't know why he would make this statement based on some arbitrary "command."

dat5h Wrote:You really need to give more info in the future eg. what is the command? did you type this from listening or is it from a transcript? etc...

Perhaps, if you typed it from listening, you have misheard it slightly (eg. missed a pause/punctuation, missed a particle, etc...). My best guess is that this 光栄に見合う is something along the lines of "You will have the pleasure to exchange looks." and 口触れます might be some form of "touching mouths," but the way it is written sounds bizarre. Basically, I think you need to listen to it again if that's where it came from. Otherwise, we still don't know why he would make this statement based on some arbitrary "command."

Well I was writing under the assumption that such language would be standard or known, and not esoteric. Which is to say that a native speaker or someone advanced in Japanese who was familiar with such language could sound it out or recall something similar they could simply correct me on.

The command was completely arbitrary, nothing special, just "I'll be counting on you tomorrow."

The speaking character is given to honorific hyperbole.

Here is an audio clip of the scene which can be played in Windows Media Player:
http://www.geocities.com/fotsbluetaco/audios2.wav

And a different scene which is of a news reporter apologizing for the "inconvience" which I would also be grateful for a transcription on:
http://www.geocities.com/fotsbluetaco/audios3.wav

Each clip runs approx. 5 seconds.

Thanks for the help.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Here is an audio clip of the scene which can be played in Windows Media Player:
http://www.geocities.com/fotsbluetaco/audios2.wav

And a different scene which is of a news reporter apologizing for the "inconvience" which I would also be grateful for a transcription on:
http://www.geocities.com/fotsbluetaco/audios3.wav

Haruhi (?) is saying "明日は頼んだわよ," and his response is probably "光栄に身が打ち震えます." The reading is "こうえいにみがうちふるえます."

The second one is:

お待たせしました。(おまたせしました)
この度はご無理を言ってしまい、申し訳ありません。読者の要望があまりに大きいもので。(このたびはごむりをいってしまい、もうしわけありません。どくしゃのようぼうがあまりにおおきいもので。)

You might want to take a look at here. There are lots of Japanese transcripts of various anime series. You can upload your own transcripts, and native Japanese speakers will correct your errors. I'm pretty sure someone is working on Haruhi's 2nd season and other famous shows. If you feel generous, you can correct English transcripts non-native speakers have uploaded.

Also, if you have trouble transcribing anime, you can get replies from native Japanese speakers here.

magamo Wrote:Haruhi (?) is saying "明日は頼んだわよ," and his response is probably "光栄に身が打ち震えます." The reading is "こうえいにみがうちふるえます."

The second one is:

お待たせしました。(おまたせしました)
この度はご無理を言ってしまい、申し訳ありません。読者の要望があまりに大きいもので。(このたびはごむりをいってしまい、もうしわけありません。どくしゃのようぼうがあまりにおおきいもので。)

You might want to take a look at here. There are lots of Japanese transcripts of various anime series. You can upload your own transcripts, and native Japanese speakers will correct your errors. I'm pretty sure someone is working on Haruhi's 2nd season and other famous shows. If you feel generous, you can correct English transcripts non-native speakers have uploaded.

Also, if you have trouble transcribing anime, you can get replies from native Japanese speakers here.

lmao magamo... it's not Haruhi...

I don't transcript anime...

rofl...



Thanks for the help and the links though.

Ha ha. I recognize her voice and you asked similar questions about Kyon's line in another thread, so I assumed it's from the 2nd season. You've spouted 4chan memes on this forum, so it also made me assume you're interested in anime and stuff.

As for 光栄に身が打ち震えます, it's not used so often, and the translation in your sub is pretty accurate. Gah! you just edited out the question and threw in a motivational poster!

magamo Wrote:Ha ha. I recognize her voice and you asked similar questions about Kyon's line in another thread, so I assumed it's from the 2nd season. You've spouted 4chan memes on this forum, so it also made me assume you're interested in anime and stuff.

As for 光栄に身が打ち震えます, it's not used so often, and the translation in your sub is pretty accurate. Gah! you just edited out the question and threw in a motivational poster!

No it ain't the same 声優。 And Haruhi is like Tiger Woods, even if you don't play golf, you may know or have seen or heard about him.

And 4chan memes? Come now. 4chan is the cesspit of the internet. It's most famous memes are commonplace knowledge among the digital generation (Z) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Generation

Not trying to be an apologist for watching some anime, but that thread titled "Please let no-one from RTK be like this" was... interesting...

I personally despise the otaku image, I'm not sure why various groups or perspectives in Japanese society disparage them, but I personally don't like the idea of someone clamming up and contributing nothing - simply doing part-time work until he can buy a new wall scroll to fap to or something. The image is despicable, and not always accurate.

I deleted the question because I thought that now that I've been given the kanji I ought to go figure it out myself instead of continuously asking for help like a だめ人間。

Oh, so my ears got rusty already.

About the negative image of otaku, I understand that kids and adolescents are sensitive about their own images because of peer pressure. They're just immature and insecure. What kind of mature adult would look down on others' hobbies and stuff? I don't think anyone who's mature enough would ridicule a person just because he or she has different interests than them.

As for transliteration, you realize I also typed it out in kana? I thought you could read hiragana.

Yes the kids are fine, but it's people who are past adulthood and who live only to satisfy themselves that are reprehensible.

And I used transliterate to mean "translate to an English sentence as accurately as possible that reflects the same message as the original with as much sub-text and nuance preserved as is linguistically possible."

I can indeed read hiragana and some kanji. It would be quite silly of me to learn terms like 騒動 if I couldn't even read hiragana (笑).

Yeah, I thought you might have meant that, so I said the sub is accurate. But I only use the word to mean "to write characters in another writing system."
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transliterate

Yes, thanks for that.

But dictionary definitions can be such inadequate simulacrums of the whole richness of language though, English or Japanese. でしょう？

TheTrueBlue Wrote:And I used transliterate to mean "translate to an English sentence as accurately as possible that reflects the same message as the original with as much sub-text and nuance preserved as is linguistically possible."

Unilaterally redefining words will only cause confusion for others and make it difficult to get your message across. The word you probably want is "faithful translation"; one of many approaches to translating.

Pauline Wrote:Unilaterally redefining words will only cause confusion for others and make it difficult to get your message across. The word you probably want is "faithful translation"; one of many approaches to translating.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:And I used transliterate to mean "translate to an English sentence as accurately as possible that reflects the same message as the original with as much sub-text and nuance preserved as is linguistically possible."

magamo Wrote:Yeah, I thought you might have meant that, so I said the sub is accurate.

Or the communication might work out fine, because the "redefinition" is well within reasonable and intuitive bounds for its purposes.

But that's a fascinating list you have there. I've never thought a "faithful" translation could gain currency as a term used beyond the colloquial. (e.g. "Meyer's is the most 'faithful' translation of the work.")

That list is certainly very precise and useful, hopefully more people, even outside the fields of translation, will come to know of those terms in the way that the list defines them.