All men/women of every culture (if given the chance) cheat at some point. Except for the gf/wife/bf/husband of the people reading this thread of course. It is not immoral. It is just the way we have evolved and flourished.

I watched a documentary on this type of bird scientists thought was the only example in nature of animals being monogamous with one partner their whole lives. Upon further observation, they noticed the female birds would listen to the neighboring male birds sing the night before. Then early the next morning before their male partner awoke, they would fly away and mate with the male with the nicest song. They found a life partner that built the best nest and then mated with the bird with the nicest song to produce strong offspring. Sound familiar サラリーマン?

There are no examples of monogamy in the animal world. It would hinder evolution. Thinking humans are somehow different is not realistic.

I remember reading that studies show an inverse relationship between cheating and gene sharing. In other words, they saw a trend that cheating (including just thinking about it) was less likely if a couple were genetically dissimilar or far apart genetically. Anybody have a copy of this, I couldn't find it again. I think it was on Scientific American

bodhisamaya Wrote:

kazelee Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:From my superficial observation of Japanese media, it seems the most popular female heart-throbs are cute and feminine looking. The same appears to be true for the guys. Johnny Depp is a thousand times more popular in Japan than in the US. If I were to stumble into a male Host Club drunk at night, I might easily fall in love

Think I may be falling in love with Issei too :-*

You are doing it sober clearly seeing they are guys

They're guys!? Wait, the video was blurry. The voices were distorted. They had had chick hair! That's gotta count for something right!? RIGHT!!?

Shit, what does this mean!? Dear god help me!

*goes to dark corner and ponders sexuality*

aijin Wrote:people always tend to be more attracted to their own ethnicity in general.

More attracted to or more comfortable with due to social pressures?

Quote:Which means, the vast majority of Japanese women are mostly comfortable with Japanese men, and feel more relationship-prone to these men. That is not to say that they wouldn't date a westerner, or that they don't think westerners are attractive. It's just that in Japan we're constantly surrounded by people of our own ethnicity, and naturally we feel much more comfortable dating fellow Japanese than dating westerners. There isn't the wide variety of races like you have in America, where people are much more comfortable dating outside their race (and why shouldn't they be!)

Nice save.

Quote:Girls who actively seek only foreigners to date though...I don't know, I haven't met many of them, but they're definitely out there. I think it's absolutely silly to only want to date a certain ethnicity, but that's just me.

Right with you on that one.

Quote:I have to take offense at the remark that Japanese girls are more disloyal than American women...

You could see it as being more honest with themselves.

Quote:There are many girls everywhere who are going to be extremely loyal and devotedly in love with the right guy.

I'm gonna stop here.

bodhisamaya Wrote:I always wondered...
Why do Japanese women always get their picture taken eating food (usually お菓子)? Is it just to kind of say, "Look at me eating all this food, yet only 3% body fat. Eat your heart out all you girls working out to Billy`s BootCamp !!!" ?

It's a subconscious trigger. You unknowingly associate whatever food being eaten with with wide eyes and puffy cheeks.

Jarvik7 Wrote:This reminds me of a story my (Japanese) gf told me earlier today.
One of her friends had 3 boyfriends going at once, until she decided that she didn't love any of them so she dumped them all and got 2 more boyfriends.

o_O

That's fukt.

captal Wrote:I met a girl for an English lesson a couple years ago and she told me she had cheated on her boyfriend. "Do you think that means I didn't really love him," she asked me.

I wasn't sure how to respond to that one...

"Why don't we have a go to make sure?" I'd say were I a smooth talking ladies man. "Of course" What I'd probably say in an ideal reality. "You cunt" What I'd surely be thinking.

bodhisamaya Wrote:All men/women of every culture (if given the chance) cheat at some point. Except for the gf/wife/bf/husband of the people reading this thread of course. It is not immoral. It is just the way we have evolved and flourished.

I watched a documentary on this type of bird scientists thought was the only example in nature of animals being monogamous with one partner their whole lives. Upon further observation, they noticed the female birds would listen to the neighboring male birds sing the night before. Then early the next morning before their male partner awoke, they would fly away and mate with the male with the nicest song. They found a life partner that built the best nest and then mated with the bird with the nicest song to produce strong offspring. Sound familiar サラリーマン?

There are no examples of monogamy in the animal world. It would hinder evolution. Thinking humans are somehow different is not realistic.

No excuses!

Seriously though, If I knew you were gonna post this, I would not have bothered censoring my more than somewhat cynical remarks. LOL. That whore!

dat5h Wrote:I remember reading that studies show an inverse relationship between cheating and gene sharing. In other words, they saw a trend that cheating (including just thinking about it) was less likely if a couple were genetically dissimilar or far apart genetically. Anybody have a copy of this, I couldn't find it again. I think it was on Scientific American

Makes sense actually.

Long post composed of small pieces of longer posts that aren't as long as this post combined!

Aijin Wrote:There are many girls everywhere who are going to be extremely loyal and devotedly in love with the right guy.

This is exactly the kind of girl I'm looking for. I'm a small business owner in NYC and my number one goal right now, despite how absurd it may sound to some, is to go to Japan, find love, and get married. My father's side of the family is Chinese, my mother's, Japanese.

I'm not doing the NYC dating scene, I don't want to go to any speed dating or random bars or parties or trying speed seduction or David DeAngelo stuff on party girls or meet some girl my friends think is a good match. I don't want to "Nanpa" with interesting American girls at Barnes and Nobles or supermarkets anymore. I really don't. I don't want to try to make them laugh or reflect their values back at them or any of that anymore (or even be around them, sorry).

I want to go to Japan. Now WAIT, I'm NOT INSANE!!! Really! I know that Japan has a diverse array of individuals, as with any place, and that there's difficulties and hardships with virtually every relationship.

But I'm working out, investing as best I can, and moving towards this goal. [[[Is it so crazy?]]] I want to be a completely financially independent biseinen (I'm 23 at the moment). A stylish, great looking, wealthy young man who's looking for love.

I want to go there and sweep a girl off her feet. Now to be frank, I've never kissed a girl on her lips or slept with one. I've done many other things though and had girls say they "love" me.

But there is of course no end to the things that an ignorant young pup like me hasn't been through or experienced yet, but I'm sick of moving through life alone. REALLY REALLY SICK OF IT. 一人でいーやーだ！！！！マジで。

I remember when I first heard the paradigm of finding love in high school or college and growing up with your sweetheart. That's what I want, I want to find a girl I can live my life with. I don't want to sow any "wild oats" and sleep around, but I'm not insanely desperate either, as to get hitched to the first Japanese girl I hit it off with.

I'm really sorry for this horribly long rant, but this is my number one goal in life right now and there's really NO-ONE I know who really has any idea what in God's name I'm talking about when I talk about this, and I hope maybe someone here can understand or advise me.

Whenever I'm in pain at the gym or stressing out over my business, I'm thinking that "This is for you." the girl that I'll end up with. I want her to be happy, I want an honest and inexperienced girl, in no small part because I'm inexperienced myself in certain areas. I DON'T want to find a weakling that I can dominate or lord over, I do want someone smart， curious，and loving that I can share life with.

NOW WAIT! I know there's many complexes diagnosable here, Oh I never got approval and affection from my mother, or no skinship or lack of self-esteem OK, DULY NOTED.

But my mental profile aside, is my goal and my manner of going about it so insane? If I do go to Japan, how could I might girls? I don't want to end up or (spend any time at all) with the party girls as some previous posters indicated they had experience with, but I can't go around screaming: "I'm a young rich guy looking for a loving, honest, affectionate girl. 5'8'' / 173 cm, BA in History. Seeking LTR, financially independent! onegaishimasu!" either.

Isn't that the goddamn dream after all? To be young, rich, beautiful, and in love? はつちゅうとか。。。ね？

I grew up bucketting the excrement from a run down 3 story government co-op (my home) in provincial China because we had no plumbing, I've spent the night in jail because of an argument with a (crazy) neighbor and been arrested by cops called by my own mother (a total misunderstanding, and I have no criminal record, but still). I know I'm young, and stupid and inexperienced in countless ways, but I'm not a complete moron or a sheltered disllusionary brat either.

I'm truly sorry if I've come off as arrogant in this rant, I'm really mentally on my knees here hoping for advice from the worldly men and women of this forum. I know finding this girl won't be an automatic soul-transcending acension to eternal bliss. But how could I proceed? What should I watch out for? What should I beware of? Half-Sacrasm mode: How do I meet the sweet, innocent, loving, devoted, kind, メガネっ娘 that I'm doing so much of what I'm doing right now, for.

\叩頭

拙者の話を拝見して誠にどうも有難う御座いました。先輩様達の知恵が頂ければ凄く凄く感謝しています。よろしく御願い申し上げます。

MeganeSan ha tabun Issei to "slept with" koto datta. jk

You have a very long journey ahead of you. If you do find a girl like that, let me know if she has a sister.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:\叩頭

拙者の話を拝見して誠にどうも有難う御座いました。先輩様達の知恵が頂ければ凄く凄く感謝しています。よろしく御願い申し上げます。

Wow. I got the last sentence of that and bits and pieces of it without rikachan. I've never even seen ありがとうございました in kanji.

That was a bit of a rant... but whatever floats your boat. I'd hate to see you try and sweep a girl off her feet and then be tragically heart-broken. I guess my previous advice stands. Don't look for it. Live your life, do the things you enjoy, meet people and hope that it works out. If you force it you'll probably end up unhappy (as many couples who marry young (and old) find out).

bodhisamaya Wrote:It is not immoral. It is just the way we have evolved and flourished.

...

There are no examples of monogamy in the animal world. It would hinder evolution. Thinking humans are somehow different is not realistic.

But how do you explain that to someone who doesn't want to share you? And are you ok with your partners being shared as well? What if another guy impregnated your girlfriend or gave her an STD- how would that feel?

If we were animals, we wouldn't care and we'd just deal with it, but we're not- we are sentient, thinking beings. Evolution may have gotten us here, but we've already halted evolution anyway with advances in medicine. The weak no longer die off, and the strong tend to produce only a couple offspring anyway.

You mentioned you are open and honest with your (former?) girlfriend- and if that's the case, and she accepts it, then it's no problem in my opinion. Not sure how many girls really want to accept that kind of situation though. Most want security, loyalty and monogomy.

Believe me, I'd love to have a harem of women just for the variety (spice of life and all)

@TheTrueBlue:

You'll have better luck finding love by getting involved in the Japanese community (Japanese people in America, not Japanese Americans) in New York. I met both of the Japanese girlfriends I've had in Canada. It's hard to meet people in Japan (unless you already know people in Japan who can introduce you). The way a culture copes with high population density is by tuning out strangers.

Jarvik7 Wrote:It's hard to meet people in Japan (unless you already know people in Japan who can introduce you).

+1

Not sure if it has to do with high population density though- it's a problem in all of Japan, not just the big cities.

captal Wrote:

Jarvik7 Wrote:It's hard to meet people in Japan (unless you already know people in Japan who can introduce you).

+1

Not sure if it has to do with high population density though- it's a problem in all of Japan, not just the big cities.

Japan (and East-Asian cultures in general) make it even worse with the uchi/soto concept yeah.

That's not to say it's impossible to meet people. If you goto a university in Japan you should have some luck. I had girls 告白 me a couple times at jp-uni, but unfortunately I wasn't single I also made a lot of friends there.

kazelee Wrote:MeganeSan ha tabun Issei to "slept with" koto datta. jk

You have a very long journey ahead of you. If you do find a girl like that, let me know if she has a sister.

:'(

That cynicism may truly be well-grounded in reality. But there are girls out there of the kind I (and yourself) are hoping for, even if extremely hard to find. All my guy friends want to mess around, sow oats, etc. then get "chained up"/"hitched" if at all. Might it be fair to say that I'm an unusual guy searching for an unusual girl?

@Jarvik7

Yes I have friends in Hokkaido, and elsewhere in Japan. Plus if I was seen on the streets of Japan, I'd fit right in, except for my primary school reading skills and katakana name.

But, and this is a common thread on Japanese dating sites, I don't want "American" to be anywhere near this girl. I want an East Asian girl, nay a Japanese girl! All power and respect in the world to the liberated, free women of the world, truly. I won't patronize feminists by attempting to list all the great things feminism has given society. But if you ladies don't mind, I'm going to go over there, ok? Truly, truly, no disrespect at all intended. You ladies are way cool, but (and I can't state this without sounding ludicriously judgemental or egotistical) ... I'm not the guy you want and you're not the girl I want. Sorry for the close-mindedness.

@TheTrueBlue:

It has nothing to do with looking foreign or fitting in. Japanese people also have trouble making friends/girlfriends from outside their circle. Everything needs a middleman for introductions.

There is of course nanpa, but I don't think I'd want a serious relationship with any girl who would date a stranger based on some nanpa line and nice clothes.

captal Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:It is not immoral. It is just the way we have evolved and flourished.

...

There are no examples of monogamy in the animal world. It would hinder evolution. Thinking humans are somehow different is not realistic.

But how do you explain that to someone who doesn't want to share you? And are you ok with your partners being shared as well? What if another guy impregnated your girlfriend or gave her an STD- how would that feel?

If we were animals, we wouldn't care and we'd just deal with it, but we're not- we are sentient, thinking beings. Evolution may have gotten us here, but we've already halted evolution anyway with advances in medicine. The weak no longer die off, and the strong tend to produce only a couple offspring anyway.

You mentioned you are open and honest with your (former?) girlfriend- and if that's the case, and she accepts it, then it's no problem in my opinion. Not sure how many girls really want to accept that kind of situation though. Most want security, loyalty and monogomy.


Believe me, I'd love to have a harem of women just for the variety (spice of life and all)

When I was a University student 20 years ago, my first love was working out at the gym. I would spend 4 hours a day, 7 days a week there.

I came from a very poor family and so had to work while attending school to cover living expenses even though I was on scholarship. On the advise of a friend, I started stripping at parties rather than flipping burgers at a fast-food joint. This led to several sexual encounters with women from those parties. Most of the women I received sexual advances from were married. I was given clear warning this was a one time thing and advised never to contact them. Yet very few of them asked me to wear a condom. This was before DNA testing could prove paternity. Strangely enough, they would talk to me about their husbands in a very positive and loving manner. I kind of felt that all women must cheat if even these women who claimed they loved their husbands were cheating.

Ever since then, I have never asked a gf to be monogamous with me. I only ask for honesty. I never tell a gf I will be monogamous to her. I explain I will be as honest as she is strong enough to accept.

Jarvik7 Wrote:There is of course nanpa, but I don't think I'd want a serious relationship with any girl who would date a stranger based on some nanpa line and nice clothes.

Stop being so close-minded!

「BTW I'm lurking on this thread because I'm bored at school and don't want to study. Someone lend me some motivation... as a side note- I picked up that book you recommended a few weeks back Jarvik- ２級文法- blue cover, 4 languages. Pretty good- easier to go through than the kanzen books.」

Jarvik7 Wrote:@TheTrueBlue:

It has nothing to do with looking foreign or fitting in. Japanese people also have trouble making friends/girlfriends from outside their circle. Everything needs a middleman for introductions.

There is of course nanpa, but I don't think I'd want a serious relationship with any girl who would date a stranger based on some nanpa line and nice clothes.

Yes, you're right, my limited experience with Japanese culture also points decisively in the same direction. A middleman, ka? Guess I should look into (books?) how to network with Japanese youth? しんどいな感じけど。。。If that's what I need to do, then that's what I need to do.

Jarvik7 Wrote:It has nothing to do with looking foreign or fitting in. Japanese people also have trouble making friends/girlfriends from outside their circle. Everything needs a middleman for introductions.

This is mostly true, but I will point out that in my experience it's easy to make friends with old people. Do not underestimate the hilarity of conversations with the elderly.

Except when they talk about you and your girlfriend right in front of you because they assume you do not understand Japanese (despite the girlfriend being Japanese ...). That gets on my nerves. Only once have I ever told someone off for giving me a hard time as a foreigner, and it was quite an empowering moment.

captal Wrote:Stop being so close-minded!

I never said no to random-hookups though (Not that I've ever been single while in Japan)

Kanzen Master is mind numbingly boring. Matome covers less material, but it's still more than enough for JLPT2 though.

bodhisamaya Wrote:Ever since then, I have never asked a gf to be monogamous with me. I only ask for honesty. I never tell a gf I will be monogamous to her. I explain I will be as honest as she is strong enough to accept.

Thanks for sharing your story. Don't you also think that jealously is part of evolution as well then? That we naturally want to covet what we think belongs to us, and not share with others.

I guess the openness thing works for some guys and girls. I have a friend who was seeing 4 girls at once, and they all knew there were other girls and would still see him. He has since gone the monogamous route though. I'm not sure how I'd react if I girl I was seeing said she'd like to have an open relationship- might work, might lead to a lot of jealousy.

If you got married, would you feel the need to be monogamous?

Jarvik7 Wrote:

captal Wrote:Stop being so close-minded!

I never said no to random-hookups though (Not that I've ever been single while in Japan)

Random-hookups in Tokyo are like shooting fish in a barrel if you want them. Though I didn't do a very good job when I stayed for two months as I was sticking to nice girls that I met. My favorite quote was about Muse (the club in Roppongi)- "You can't lose at Muse." Haha.

Yeah, sometimes I regret not going after random hookups while I was in jp university. Especially since I'm no longer with the gf I was dating at the time. Even turned down gyaku-nanpa several times. :/

dbh2ppa Wrote:hm... this is probably not the crowd to ask but, since we are in the "love in japan" thread...
how's the situation for the gay males in japan? i think i read somewhere homosexuality in japan wasn't viewed as a serious thing and most people wouldn't even consider the possibility of a stable relationship with a person of the same sex, can anyone attest to the veracity (or lack thereof) of that?
(cause it would suck to move to japan and find it full of closeted guys with because-this-is-what-i'm-supposed-to-do marriages)

Something I read in a worthy Dirty Japanese phrasebook: abercrombie wear is supposed to be a hint to being gay in JPN. Might be useful in that department. Maybe someone here can confirm.

aaronvanvalen Wrote:Something I read in a worthy Dirty Japanese phrasebook: abercrombie wear is supposed to be a hint to being gay in JPN. Might be useful in that department. Maybe someone here can confirm.

You sure that's a hint only in Japan? (couldn't resist)

So I have a valid case for going to Japan with this goal in mind? Nobody (yet) thinks I should be institutionalized, right?

But as for the larger discussion about monogamy, if anybody here has read the best-selling non-fiction book by Neil Strauss "The Game", a main character "master pick-up artist" "Mystery" also succumbs to or opts for the monogamous route.

Movies like "Eyes Wide Shut" can be terrifying though, and those wives who spoke lovingly of their husbands after cheating? That stuff sends chills down my spine. It may be a common feature of human nature, but so is theft, murder, and arson. But it's not every single person and it's not the only way to live life. でしょう？

captal Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:Ever since then, I have never asked a gf to be monogamous with me. I only ask for honesty. I never tell a gf I will be monogamous to her. I explain I will be as honest as she is strong enough to accept.

Thanks for sharing your story. Don't you also think that jealously is part of evolution as well then? That we naturally want to covet what we think belongs to us, and not share with others.
I guess the openness thing works for some guys and girls. I have a friend who was seeing 4 girls at once, and they all knew there were other girls and would still see him. He has since gone the monogamous route though. I'm not sure how I'd react if I girl I was seeing said she'd like to have an open relationship- might work, might lead to a lot of jealousy.

If you got married, would you feel the need to be monogamous?

The key phrase here is "belongs to us" That is what jealousy is all about.

I have been married three times. The first one was for love and lasted 9 years. It ended when I made a trip to Mexico and witnessed extreme poverty for the first time. I became active in charities from that point on and began to focus most of my income into that area. She did not understand my sudden change and it ended over money. My second wife was a Filipina. She was living in a very poor part of the Philippines and I made a deal with her that if I married her and immigrated her to America, she would use that opportunity to return to the Philippines and help others in her situation. She did not keep her promise and used her new-found wealth to buy up property in her hometown of Bohol. My third wife is the mother of my child in Japan. We got married when she got pregnant so I could move to Japan and help her with child support. When NOVA closed, I lost my job and had to return to Hawaii due to the glut of unemployed English teachers. She fell in love with another guy after I left and we divorced (with my blessing) as she thought she was going to marry him (it didn't work out). All relationships end at some point. Even if that point is death. Unless you are Mormon and believe you stay married to that person in the afterlife I suppose. Enjoy love but do not become attached. If you live in fear of one day losing it, then you never really enjoy the now.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:It may be a common feature of human nature, but so is theft, murder, and arson.

Murder and arson are very rare. They serve no purpose in the preservation of self or offspring.

aaronvanvalen Wrote:

dbh2ppa Wrote:hm... this is probably not the crowd to ask but, since we are in the "love in japan" thread...
how's the situation for the gay males in japan? i think i read somewhere homosexuality in japan wasn't viewed as a serious thing and most people wouldn't even consider the possibility of a stable relationship with a person of the same sex, can anyone attest to the veracity (or lack thereof) of that?
(cause it would suck to move to japan and find it full of closeted guys with because-this-is-what-i'm-supposed-to-do marriages)

Something I read in a worthy Dirty Japanese phrasebook: abercrombie wear is supposed to be a hint to being gay in JPN. Might be useful in that department. Maybe someone here can confirm.

Just goto a gay area of town. I went to Doyamacho (the gay district of Osaka) on a lark with some of my friends to check out a shemale "cabaret" show. We all got hit on all night by guys while bar hopping afterwards. I even got some free beers!