こんばんは皆さん。

どれどれ。。。

magamo Wrote:"Ah, thanks. So you took a look at my profile. I know I'm an intelligent person with a great personality and have never been penetrated by a guy, though I had been groped by random people in a train when I was a high schooler. But sorry. I can't be yours.

You're right. You might be a great person, doing great things in this world, and you might make the perfect mate for any number of guys. Just like someone who likes dogs or cats can be.

But dating sites allow people to choose based on whether they're looking for a smoker or for someone who loves dogs and cats. One can think of my own uncommon stand in this matter in the same light. Virginity may be inconsequential in the worldviews of less "naive" people, if so, equate it with smoking, and think of that as the choice I make in my search.

"Is smoking, and the risks of cancer and costs that build up as important as virginity?", is not my point here so much as: "Is it something based on which people unnegotiatingly and arbitrarily discount possible mates?" (By arbitrary here, I don't mean that smoking is arbitrary, I mean that they discount smokers without even looking at their profiles or wanting to go on a first date with them if they learn of it through a friend.) Many people may think that's not the best way to go about things, but it's everyone's choice to make.

Virginity for both partners may not be important for a lasting, life-long and totally fullfilling relationship, but it can have impacts on the beginning of one, that both partners are inexperienced, and want to share this part of themselves with one another. I accept all associated risks of "neediness", "don't know what she wants..." etc.

IceCream Wrote:I have to disagree that needy people can be happy though. I have never ever met one who is. Even the high maintenance girls i've met are generally unhappy. The fact of it is, that feeling of really really needing someone - it isn't a nice feeling!! It's too strong a feeling, so how can someone be happy going round feeling like that? It's really painful to feel like that!!

The point is that that feeling, no matter what you give someone, you can't fulfill it! So the situation ends up getting out of control.

I appreciate the fact that your experiences have strongly indicated to you that needy people can't be happy. I wrote before, I'm not other people or everyone, I'm just me.

That doesn't mean I'm a super-unique snowflake (笑), but it means I get my own chance to try and mess up if I absolutely choose to take my shot at it.

4 out of 5 small businesses fail in the first year, and in the next 5 years, 4 out of 5 of those remaining also fail. But despite the 5 year success rate of a mere 4%, people jump in every day.

People from all walks of life make the tremendous investment of time, money and hopes and dreams, and make the leap of faith. And a few diligent or lucky or skilled ones are rewarded greatly. We can't control fate, but through effort and tenacity, we can tip the scales greatly in our favor.

I'll endeavor to be vigilant as per your admonishments but... I think I'll read more into needy people, psychology books, academic journal articles, and whatnot, and then maybe come back with a more definitive answer.

IceCream Wrote:So please, try to differentiate needy and high maintenance from a solid gf who wants to share life and experiences with you. In every solid relationship there ends up being some kind of mutual dependence after a while, and this is healthy. Actively encouraging needy behaviour in girls will not generally end in healthy interdependence.

IceCream, I wrote already that I won't encourage needy behavior, but that I won't say no to her either. And your point about mutual dependence is a powerful one that I totally agree with. For example if 2 people both need to see each once an hour or call 3 times a day no matter what, then they can work together to satisfy one another.

And thank you for relating the experiences of your friends.

Kaede Wrote:I'm not too sure about the recommendations for TheTrueBlue to go look for this girl in libraries and bookstores. I personally love libraries and bookstores, but I think if someone like him randomly came up and tried to talk to me in one I'd be finding a new library or bookstore to go to. Or be sure to take a friend with me next time.

Hahaha. Incidentally, I'm someone who's lucky enough to have had the genes or experiences to be naturally great with girls of all walks of life (Thank the Gods). I can't remember the last time I couldn't make a girl laugh and enjoy herself with me in any setting, library, supermarket, subway, anywhere (but it was probably back in High School). This includes platonic as well as romantic interactions.

Kaede Wrote:And bookstores in Japan are full of people standing and reading who also seem like they don't want to be bothered.

Yeah, it's the same at Barnes and Nobles stores here in NYC, especially the huge location in mid-town. But I think a kindly voiced and well-meaning: "あの。。。すみませんですが。。。この本。。。” can work in some cases in Japan. It certainly works in the states.

Aijin Wrote:TrueBlue:
I don't mean to imply that Japan is racist or anything, but in all honesty you'll have an even harder time finding a girl if you're half Chinese/half Japanese than you would if you were a wealthy and attractive American.

Of course Japan is racist, every nation and peoples are racist. It's just part of present day society (or some might argue, human nature) is all. しょうがない。

I agree with you. But I'm not my nationalities, those labels are arbitrary constructions. I'll chat and hang out and answer questions, but if anyone thinks I'm Japanese because I don't have an accent or aren't white, it's not my concern to run around screaming "I'm a halfling!" Of course before I make any serious commitments I would be honest about it, but if it gets to that point, and the girl that I've decided on (who feels strongly for me as I do for her) reneges solely based on nationality, then I'll have to look for someone else.

I had this inner debate with myself before. Am I Japanese, American or Chinese, or all? In the end I decided, I am who I am, you can take a nationality or an income bracket or a height and affix to me, but that doesn't determine who I am or what I should do, nor should it.

methanol Wrote:This thread is embarrassing. I feel embarrassed.

I want to state this as concisely as I can.

Mark my words: TheTrueBlue, start dating and having experiences right now, or rue this period for the rest of your life. If you're lucky, it's still not too late.

It might be embarassing, but might not useful advice come from opening up like this too? I don't have the same puritan inhibitions that many other people, including my neighbors here in NYC, have. I love to chat about any topic, no matter how obscure or personal, if the conversation is intelligent and thoughtful, bring it on.

And methanol, as I've written before, I've gone on plenty of dates. FFS, please 皆さん, read posts carefully if you want to contribute.

Especially between Musashi and some of the other guys here. Sometimes a misread can blow up into something really big and unnecessary. Please be careful if possible.

gibosi Wrote:You have written a rather long list of criteria you are looking for in a future wife, but in my experience (which is rather long... I am 62 years old tomorrow)

Yes sir, as you are a veteran of life in this world, I will definitely heed your words dearly.

gibosi Wrote:the only things that really matter are shared core values and a shared vision of the future. Most of the other things people say they want in a future mate are not all that important. And you risk losing a potentially wonderful partner if you slavishly adhere to a list...

Yes shared core values and a shared vision are of paramount importance, I whole-heartedly agree. And that is indeed a risk that exists. I freely admit that the human heart flys about all over the place like a headless chicken, and that a girl so stunning she could blow my mind could come into the picture any day. But I doubt it, models and sexy but smart girls are a dime a dozen in a big city, much less a big city with lots of universities like NYC. I will think carefully about your weighty cautions regarding criteria.

gibosi Wrote:I would echo as others have pointed out, that language and culture are going to huge obstacles. But they are not insurmountable. I believe you have indicated that you are 1/2 Japanese and you are studying the language, which should help you.

I don't have any accents on my Japanese, and like with virginity, learning a language deeply with your mate (Japanese for me, English for her) might be a rewarding if sometimes frustrating experience. Like raising a child though, it might prove fruitful and fulfilling.

gibosi Wrote:And one final comment which follows on that of others. Make sure she loves you more than she needs you. A relationship based on need is not healthy for either side...
Good luck!

Hmm, I hadn't quite thought of it that way. I think I'll find it very hard to distinguish the two though, if she needs me in her life, and I fill a missing part of her as I feel she does for me.... nevertheless, Thank you very much 師匠。 I'll have to look into this.

bodhisamaya Wrote:This is something I have been thinking but have not said. You are looking for a conservative wife, but conservative Japanese girls are most likely going to have conservative parents who generally don't approve of inter-national marriages. As an Asian-American, you are not even going to be able to take advantage of the starie eyes some Japanese girls give to Caucasian or African-American guys.

Haha yes. I have a filipino friend with similar plans to find love in Japan once he gets out of Med School. When he went on study abroad there they weren't impressed with his "gaijin"-ness, his horrible Japanese, or his amount of skin pigmentation. But I addressed the inter-national thing above in this very post to Aijin already. ご覧になってください。　すみません。

Ampharos64 Wrote:Recommend TheTrueBlue reads 'The Great Gatsby', if he hasn't, and maybe 'Of Human Bondage', though (no, this is not what it sounds like, you lot).

One of my favorite quotes from Gatsby: "He smiled understandingly-much more than understandingly. It was one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it, that you may come across four or five times in life. It faced--or seemed to face--the whole external world for an instant, and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. It understood you just as far as you wanted to be understood, believed in you as you would like to believe in yourself, and assured you that it had precisely the impression of you that, at your best, you hoped to convey."

@Aijin re: previous post

I do believe I bring a number of special things to the plate, and as I wrote above, I'm not my nationalities nor will I declare them as a matter of course before people meet me (minus any labels) and get to know and like me.

Aijin Wrote:As for the whole 'kawaii movement' thing...I'm not positive of what you're talking about, but I think I can guess, and in all honesty a LOT of those girls are complete and utter bitches (excuse my language). You have to remember that it's a style, a subculture, and does not reflect upon the girl's actual personality. The vast majority of those people whom I've interacted who act like that, it's just a persona for them. It's not who they really are. As soon as you actually get to know them, you realize what a stark contrast there is between that persona and who they truly are.

Yes, but culture has an irresistible impact on society. I'm NOT <-*EDIT saying I'm going to Japan because I want a girl who is "kawaii." I brought up kawaii because that aesthetic is much more closer to my personal own than the "big tits, bigs ass, looks like a stripper, YEA!" nonsense that's so popular here in the states.

A big heart-felt bow of sincere and fervent thanks from me @ the forum goers here. どうも有り難う御座います，先輩達。

Here are some helpful youtube videos that serve as guides to dating in Japan. Professional, hilarious and entertaining, enjoy.

The Japanese Tradition - Dating Vol 1 (English Subbed)

The Japanese Tradition - Dating Vol 2 (English Subbed)

The Japanese Tradition - Dating Vol 3 (English Subbed)

The Japanese Tradition - Dating Vol 4 (English Subbed)

I really feel more appreciative of uniquely Japanese approaches to satire and humor after watching this.

Also@Aijin, if you saw my post eariler as "I was looking for a kawaii girl" that was a tremendous typo on my part, I'm not looking for a kawaii girl, as I've edited the post to now read.

I think this is one of the longest posts in internet history. I hardly read any of it, but I am quoting it in full, just because I can.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:こんばんは皆さん。

どれどれ。。。

magamo Wrote:"Ah, thanks. So you took a look at my profile. I know I'm an intelligent person with a great personality and have never been penetrated by a guy, though I had been groped by random people in a train when I was a high schooler. But sorry. I can't be yours.

You're right. You might be a great person, doing great things in this world, and you might make the perfect mate for any number of guys. Just like someone who likes dogs or cats can be.

But dating sites allow people to choose based on whether they're looking for a smoker or for someone who loves dogs and cats. One can think of my own uncommon stand in this matter in the same light. Virginity may be inconsequential in the worldviews of less "naive" people, if so, equate it with smoking, and think of that as the choice I make in my search.

"Is smoking, and the risks of cancer and costs that build up as important as virginity?", is not my point here so much as: "Is it something based on which people unnegotiatingly and arbitrarily discount possible mates?" (By arbitrary here, I don't mean that smoking is arbitrary, I mean that they discount smokers without even looking at their profiles or wanting to go on a first date with them if they learn of it through a friend.) Many people may think that's not the best way to go about things, but it's everyone's choice to make.

Virginity for both partners may not be important for a lasting, life-long and totally fullfilling relationship, but it can have impacts on the beginning of one, that both partners are inexperienced, and want to share this part of themselves with one another. I accept all associated risks of "neediness", "don't know what she wants..." etc.

IceCream Wrote:I have to disagree that needy people can be happy though. I have never ever met one who is. Even the high maintenance girls i've met are generally unhappy. The fact of it is, that feeling of really really needing someone - it isn't a nice feeling!! It's too strong a feeling, so how can someone be happy going round feeling like that? It's really painful to feel like that!!

The point is that that feeling, no matter what you give someone, you can't fulfill it! So the situation ends up getting out of control.

I appreciate the fact that your experiences have strongly indicated to you that needy people can't be happy. I wrote before, I'm not other people or everyone, I'm just me.

That doesn't mean I'm a super-unique snowflake (笑), but it means I get my own chance to try and mess up if I absolutely choose to take my shot at it.

4 out of 5 small businesses fail in the first year, and in the next 5 years, 4 out of 5 of those remaining also fail. But despite the 5 year success rate of a mere 4%, people jump in every day.

People from all walks of life make the tremendous investment of time, money and hopes and dreams, and make the leap of faith. And a few diligent or lucky or skilled ones are rewarded greatly. We can't control fate, but through effort and tenacity, we can tip the scales greatly in our favor.

I'll endeavor to be vigilant as per your admonishments but... I think I'll read more into needy people, psychology books, academic journal articles, and whatnot, and then maybe come back with a more definitive answer.

IceCream Wrote:So please, try to differentiate needy and high maintenance from a solid gf who wants to share life and experiences with you. In every solid relationship there ends up being some kind of mutual dependence after a while, and this is healthy. Actively encouraging needy behaviour in girls will not generally end in healthy interdependence.

IceCream, I wrote already that I won't encourage needy behavior, but that I won't say no to her either. And your point about mutual dependence is a powerful one that I totally agree with. For example if 2 people both need to see each once an hour or call 3 times a day no matter what, then they can work together to satisfy each other.

And thank you for relating the experiences of your friends.

Kaede Wrote:I'm not too sure about the recommendations for TheTrueBlue to go look for this girl in libraries and bookstores. I personally love libraries and bookstores, but I think if someone like him randomly came up and tried to talk to me in one I'd be finding a new library or bookstore to go to. Or be sure to take a friend with me next time.

Hahaha. Incidentally, I'm someone who's lucky enough to have had the genes or experiences to be naturally great with girls of all walks of life (Thank the Gods). I can't remember the last time I couldn't make a girl laugh and enjoy herself with me in any setting, library, supermarket, subway, anywhere (but it was probably back in High School). This includes platonic as well as romantic interactions.

Kaede Wrote:And bookstores in Japan are full of people standing and reading who also seem like they don't want to be bothered.

Yeah, it's the same at Barnes and Nobles stores here in NYC, especially the huge location in mid-town. But I think a kindly voiced and well-meaning: "あの。。。すみませんですが。。。この本。。。” can work in some cases in Japan. It certainly works in the states.

Aijin Wrote:TrueBlue:
I don't mean to imply that Japan is racist or anything, but in all honesty you'll have an even harder time finding a girl if you're half Chinese/half Japanese than you would if you were a wealthy and attractive American.

Of course Japan is racist, every nation and peoples are racist. It's just part of present day society (or some might argue, human nature) is all. しょうがない。

I agree with you. But I'm not my nationalities, those labels are arbitrary constructions. I'll chat and hang out and answer questions, but if anyone thinks I'm Japanese because I don't have an accent or aren't white, it's not my concern to run around screaming "I'm a halfling!" Of course before I make any serious commitments I would be honest about it, but if it gets to that point, and the girl that I've decided on (who feels strongly for me as I do for her) reneges solely based on nationality, then I'll have to look for someone else.

I had this inner debate with myself before. Am I Japanese, American or Chinese, or all? In the end I decided, I am who I am, you can take a nationality or an income bracket or a height and affix to me, but that doesn't determine who I am or what I should do, nor should it.

methanol Wrote:This thread is embarrassing. I feel embarrassed.

I want to state this as concisely as I can.

Mark my words: TheTrueBlue, start dating and having experiences right now, or rue this period for the rest of your life. If you're lucky, it's still not too late.

It might be embarassing, but might not useful advice come from opening up like this too? I don't have the same puritan inhibitions that many other people, including my neighbors here in NYC, have. I love to chat about any topic, no matter how obscure or personal, if the conversation is intelligent and thoughtful, bring it on.

And methanol, as I've written before, I've gone on plenty of dates. FFS, please 皆さん, read everyones posts carefully.

Especially between Musashi and some of the other guys here. Sometimes a misread can blow up into something really big and unnecessary. Please be careful if possible.

gibosi Wrote:You have written a rather long list of criteria you are looking for in a future wife, but in my experience (which is rather long... I am 62 years old tomorrow)

Yes sir, as you are a veteran of life in this world, I will definitely heed your words dearly.

gibosi Wrote:the only things that really matter are shared core values and a shared vision of the future. Most of the other things people say they want in a future mate are not all that important. And you risk losing a potentially wonderful partner if you slavishly adhere to a list...

Yes shared core values and a shared vision are of paramount importance, I whole-heartedly agree. And that is indeed a risk that exists. I freely admit that the human heart flys about all over the place like a headless chicken, and that a girl so stunning she could blow my mind could come into the picture any day. But I doubt it, models and sexy but smart girls are a dime a dozen in a big city, much less a big city with lots of universities like NYC. I will think carefully about your weighty cautions regarding criteria.

gibosi Wrote:I would echo as others have pointed out, that language and culture are going to huge obstacles. But they are not insurmountable. I believe you have indicated that you are 1/2 Japanese and you are studying the language, which should help you.

I don't have any accents on my Japanese, and like with virginity, learning a language deeply with your mate (Japanese for me, English for her) might be a rewarding if sometimes frustrating experience. Like raising a child though, it might prove fruitful and fulfilling.

gibosi Wrote:And one final comment which follows on that of others. Make sure she loves you more than she needs you. A relationship based on need is not healthy for either side...
Good luck!

Hmm, I hadn't quite thought of it that way. I think I'll find it very hard to distinguish the two though, if she needs me in her life, and I fill a missing part of her as I feel she does for me.... nevertheless, Thank you very much 師匠。 I'll have to look into this.

bodhisamaya Wrote:This is something I have been thinking but have not said. You are looking for a conservative wife, but conservative Japanese girls are most likely going to have conservative parents who generally don't approve of inter-national marriages. As an Asian-American, you are not even going to be able to take advantage of the starie eyes some Japanese girls give to Caucasian or African-American guys.

Haha yes. I have a filipino friend with similar plans to find love in Japan once he gets out of Med School. When he went on study abroad there they weren't impressed with his "gaijin"-ness, his horrible Japanese, or his amount of skin pigmentation. But I addressed the inter-national thing above in this very post to Aijin already. ご覧になってください。　すみません。

Ampharos64 Wrote:Recommend TheTrueBlue reads 'The Great Gatsby', if he hasn't, and maybe 'Of Human Bondage', though (no, this is not what it sounds like, you lot).

One of my favorite quotes from Gatsby: "He smiled understandingly-much more than understandingly. It was one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it, that you may come across four or five times in life. It faced--or seemed to face--the whole external world for an instant, and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. It understood you just as far as you wanted to be understood, believed in you as you would like to believe in yourself, and assured you that it had precisely the impression of you that, at your best, you hoped to convey."

@Aijin re: previous post

I do believe I bring a number of special things to the plate, and as I wrote above, I'm not my nationalities nor will I declare them as a matter of course before people meet me (minus any labels) and get to know and like me.

Aijin Wrote:As for the whole 'kawaii movement' thing...I'm not positive of what you're talking about, but I think I can guess, and in all honesty a LOT of those girls are complete and utter bitches (excuse my language). You have to remember that it's a style, a subculture, and does not reflect upon the girl's actual personality. The vast majority of those people whom I've interacted who act like that, it's just a persona for them. It's not who they really are. As soon as you actually get to know them, you realize what a stark contrast there is between that persona and who they truly are.

Yes, but culture has an irresistible impact on culture. I'm NOT <-*EDIT saying I'm going to Japan because I want a girl who is "kawaii." I brought up kawaii because that aesthetic is much more closer to my personal own than the "big tits, bigs ass, looks like a stripper, YEA!" nonsense that's so popular here in the states.

A big heart-felt bow of sincere and fervent thanks from me @ the forum goers here. どうも有り難う御座います，先輩達。

That post added a lot to the thread... As does this one.

yukkuri_kame Wrote:I think this is one of the longest posts in internet history. I hardly read any of it, but I am quoting it in full, just because I can.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:こんばんは皆さん。

どれどれ。。。

magamo Wrote:"Ah, thanks. So you took a look at my profile. I know I'm an intelligent person with a great personality and have never been penetrated by a guy, though I had been groped by random people in a train when I was a high schooler. But sorry. I can't be yours.

You're right. You might be a great person, doing great things in this world, and you might make the perfect mate for any number of guys. Just like someone who likes dogs or cats can be.

But dating sites allow people to choose based on whether they're looking for a smoker or for someone who loves dogs and cats. One can think of my own uncommon stand in this matter in the same light. Virginity may be inconsequential in the worldviews of less "naive" people, if so, equate it with smoking, and think of that as the choice I make in my search.

"Is smoking, and the risks of cancer and costs that build up as important as virginity?", is not my point here so much as: "Is it something based on which people unnegotiatingly and arbitrarily discount possible mates?" (By arbitrary here, I don't mean that smoking is arbitrary, I mean that they discount smokers without even looking at their profiles or wanting to go on a first date with them if they learn of it through a friend.) Many people may think that's not the best way to go about things, but it's everyone's choice to make.

Virginity for both partners may not be important for a lasting, life-long and totally fullfilling relationship, but it can have impacts on the beginning of one, that both partners are inexperienced, and want to share this part of themselves with one another. I accept all associated risks of "neediness", "don't know what she wants..." etc.

IceCream Wrote:I have to disagree that needy people can be happy though. I have never ever met one who is. Even the high maintenance girls i've met are generally unhappy. The fact of it is, that feeling of really really needing someone - it isn't a nice feeling!! It's too strong a feeling, so how can someone be happy going round feeling like that? It's really painful to feel like that!!

The point is that that feeling, no matter what you give someone, you can't fulfill it! So the situation ends up getting out of control.

I appreciate the fact that your experiences have strongly indicated to you that needy people can't be happy. I wrote before, I'm not other people or everyone, I'm just me.

That doesn't mean I'm a super-unique snowflake (笑), but it means I get my own chance to try and mess up if I absolutely choose to take my shot at it.

4 out of 5 small businesses fail in the first year, and in the next 5 years, 4 out of 5 of those remaining also fail. But despite the 5 year success rate of a mere 4%, people jump in every day.

People from all walks of life make the tremendous investment of time, money and hopes and dreams, and make the leap of faith. And a few diligent or lucky or skilled ones are rewarded greatly. We can't control fate, but through effort and tenacity, we can tip the scales greatly in our favor.

I'll endeavor to be vigilant as per your admonishments but... I think I'll read more into needy people, psychology books, academic journal articles, and whatnot, and then maybe come back with a more definitive answer.

IceCream Wrote:So please, try to differentiate needy and high maintenance from a solid gf who wants to share life and experiences with you. In every solid relationship there ends up being some kind of mutual dependence after a while, and this is healthy. Actively encouraging needy behaviour in girls will not generally end in healthy interdependence.

IceCream, I wrote already that I won't encourage needy behavior, but that I won't say no to her either. And your point about mutual dependence is a powerful one that I totally agree with. For example if 2 people both need to see each once an hour or call 3 times a day no matter what, then they can work together to satisfy each other.

And thank you for relating the experiences of your friends.

Kaede Wrote:I'm not too sure about the recommendations for TheTrueBlue to go look for this girl in libraries and bookstores. I personally love libraries and bookstores, but I think if someone like him randomly came up and tried to talk to me in one I'd be finding a new library or bookstore to go to. Or be sure to take a friend with me next time.

Hahaha. Incidentally, I'm someone who's lucky enough to have had the genes or experiences to be naturally great with girls of all walks of life (Thank the Gods). I can't remember the last time I couldn't make a girl laugh and enjoy herself with me in any setting, library, supermarket, subway, anywhere (but it was probably back in High School). This includes platonic as well as romantic interactions.

Kaede Wrote:And bookstores in Japan are full of people standing and reading who also seem like they don't want to be bothered.

Yeah, it's the same at Barnes and Nobles stores here in NYC, especially the huge location in mid-town. But I think a kindly voiced and well-meaning: "あの。。。すみませんですが。。。この本。。。” can work in some cases in Japan. It certainly works in the states.

Aijin Wrote:TrueBlue:
I don't mean to imply that Japan is racist or anything, but in all honesty you'll have an even harder time finding a girl if you're half Chinese/half Japanese than you would if you were a wealthy and attractive American.

Of course Japan is racist, every nation and peoples are racist. It's just part of present day society (or some might argue, human nature) is all. しょうがない。

I agree with you. But I'm not my nationalities, those labels are arbitrary constructions. I'll chat and hang out and answer questions, but if anyone thinks I'm Japanese because I don't have an accent or aren't white, it's not my concern to run around screaming "I'm a halfling!" Of course before I make any serious commitments I would be honest about it, but if it gets to that point, and the girl that I've decided on (who feels strongly for me as I do for her) reneges solely based on nationality, then I'll have to look for someone else.

I had this inner debate with myself before. Am I Japanese, American or Chinese, or all? In the end I decided, I am who I am, you can take a nationality or an income bracket or a height and affix to me, but that doesn't determine who I am or what I should do, nor should it.

methanol Wrote:This thread is embarrassing. I feel embarrassed.

I want to state this as concisely as I can.

Mark my words: TheTrueBlue, start dating and having experiences right now, or rue this period for the rest of your life. If you're lucky, it's still not too late.

It might be embarassing, but might not useful advice come from opening up like this too? I don't have the same puritan inhibitions that many other people, including my neighbors here in NYC, have. I love to chat about any topic, no matter how obscure or personal, if the conversation is intelligent and thoughtful, bring it on.

And methanol, as I've written before, I've gone on plenty of dates. FFS, please 皆さん, read everyones posts carefully.

Especially between Musashi and some of the other guys here. Sometimes a misread can blow up into something really big and unnecessary. Please be careful if possible.

gibosi Wrote:You have written a rather long list of criteria you are looking for in a future wife, but in my experience (which is rather long... I am 62 years old tomorrow)

Yes sir, as you are a veteran of life in this world, I will definitely heed your words dearly.

gibosi Wrote:the only things that really matter are shared core values and a shared vision of the future. Most of the other things people say they want in a future mate are not all that important. And you risk losing a potentially wonderful partner if you slavishly adhere to a list...

Yes shared core values and a shared vision are of paramount importance, I whole-heartedly agree. And that is indeed a risk that exists. I freely admit that the human heart flys about all over the place like a headless chicken, and that a girl so stunning she could blow my mind could come into the picture any day. But I doubt it, models and sexy but smart girls are a dime a dozen in a big city, much less a big city with lots of universities like NYC. I will think carefully about your weighty cautions regarding criteria.

gibosi Wrote:I would echo as others have pointed out, that language and culture are going to huge obstacles. But they are not insurmountable. I believe you have indicated that you are 1/2 Japanese and you are studying the language, which should help you.

I don't have any accents on my Japanese, and like with virginity, learning a language deeply with your mate (Japanese for me, English for her) might be a rewarding if sometimes frustrating experience. Like raising a child though, it might prove fruitful and fulfilling.

gibosi Wrote:And one final comment which follows on that of others. Make sure she loves you more than she needs you. A relationship based on need is not healthy for either side...
Good luck!

Hmm, I hadn't quite thought of it that way. I think I'll find it very hard to distinguish the two though, if she needs me in her life, and I fill a missing part of her as I feel she does for me.... nevertheless, Thank you very much 師匠。 I'll have to look into this.

bodhisamaya Wrote:This is something I have been thinking but have not said. You are looking for a conservative wife, but conservative Japanese girls are most likely going to have conservative parents who generally don't approve of inter-national marriages. As an Asian-American, you are not even going to be able to take advantage of the starie eyes some Japanese girls give to Caucasian or African-American guys.

Haha yes. I have a filipino friend with similar plans to find love in Japan once he gets out of Med School. When he went on study abroad there they weren't impressed with his "gaijin"-ness, his horrible Japanese, or his amount of skin pigmentation. But I addressed the inter-national thing above in this very post to Aijin already. ご覧になってください。　すみません。

Ampharos64 Wrote:Recommend TheTrueBlue reads 'The Great Gatsby', if he hasn't, and maybe 'Of Human Bondage', though (no, this is not what it sounds like, you lot).

One of my favorite quotes from Gatsby: "He smiled understandingly-much more than understandingly. It was one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it, that you may come across four or five times in life. It faced--or seemed to face--the whole external world for an instant, and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. It understood you just as far as you wanted to be understood, believed in you as you would like to believe in yourself, and assured you that it had precisely the impression of you that, at your best, you hoped to convey."

@Aijin re: previous post

I do believe I bring a number of special things to the plate, and as I wrote above, I'm not my nationalities nor will I declare them as a matter of course before people meet me (minus any labels) and get to know and like me.

Aijin Wrote:As for the whole 'kawaii movement' thing...I'm not positive of what you're talking about, but I think I can guess, and in all honesty a LOT of those girls are complete and utter bitches (excuse my language). You have to remember that it's a style, a subculture, and does not reflect upon the girl's actual personality. The vast majority of those people whom I've interacted who act like that, it's just a persona for them. It's not who they really are. As soon as you actually get to know them, you realize what a stark contrast there is between that persona and who they truly are.

Yes, but culture has an irresistible impact on culture. I'm NOT <-*EDIT saying I'm going to Japan because I want a girl who is "kawaii." I brought up kawaii because that aesthetic is much more closer to my personal own than the "big tits, bigs ass, looks like a stripper, YEA!" nonsense that's so popular here in the states.

A big heart-felt bow of sincere and fervent thanks from me @ the forum goers here. どうも有り難う御座います，先輩達。

TrueBlue can I just say that you are the cutest forum member on this forum.

I agree with you in one aspect, big tits and ass has no appeal, but kawaii is at the same end of that spectrum. I can't stand those eye flickering makeup wearing bitches that pose, that shows more weakness than a girl getting plastic surgery cause she's ugly.

I need me a down to earth girl that reads chomsky and opposes the war, i.e one that hs a brain=D

liosama Wrote:TrueBlue can I just say that you are the cutest forum member on this forum.

I agree with you in one aspect, big tits and ass has no appeal, but kawaii is at the same end of that spectrum. I can't stand those eye flickering makeup wearing bitches that pose, that shows more weakness than a girl getting plastic surgery cause she's ugly.

I need me a down to earth girl that reads chomsky and opposes the war, i.e one that hs a brain=D

A girl who reads Foucault as well would be wonderful.

Hat's off, to intelligent well-read women.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Yes, but culture has an irresistible impact on culture. I'm saying I'm going to Japan because I want a girl who is "kawaii." I brought up kawaii because that aesthetic is much more closer to my personal own than the "big tits, bigs ass, looks like a stripper, YEA!" nonsense that's so popular here in the states.

Did you just dis the biggasses? I has a stone. I feel I must now cast it.

Seriously, though, outside of a strip club, or at the beach I've yet to encounter these sort of women. Tell me where you reside so that I may express my... uh.... disgust... in person.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Yes, but culture has an irresistible impact on culture. I'm NOT <-*EDIT saying I'm going to Japan because I want a girl who is "kawaii." I brought up kawaii because that aesthetic is much more closer to my personal own than the "big tits, bigs ass, looks like a stripper, YEA!" nonsense that's so popular here in the states.

Well, of all the things to worry about in Japan, finding women who don't have big tits isn't one of them. And that is literally the only thing I have to add to this topic.

kazelee Wrote:Seriously, though, outside of a strip club, or at the beach I've yet to encounter these sort of women. Tell me where you reside so that I may express my... uh.... disgust... in person.

Yes, I personally hate big globs of fat on the back of the female figure. My online friends in Brazil have spammed me with tons of pictures to convert me, but hey, everyone has their own aesthetics.

I live in NYC. You're welcome to come visit.

mcjon01 Wrote:Well, of all the things to worry about in Japan, finding women who don't have big tits isn't one of them. And that is literally the only thing I have to add to this topic.

Indeed, another reason to go there. But it's not about hating big breasts, just that it's not at all important compared to her face or her nature (e.g. confrontational, energetic, meek, cold). I care as much for the size of a woman's breasts as I do for the size of her earrings. Just my 2 cents.

IceCream, I love your post. It is the exact and absolute truth, and I've been reading through this entire forum just to get to the end and say the exact same things you have said.

TheTrueBlue, I can understand where you're coming from with all of this, but being a 16-year-old, this relationship sounds like the relationship I just came out of. And a mass majority of high school relationships. The needy thing I thought I would generally like, ended up turning neurotic. I'm not saying you'll turn out like what happened in my relationship, but being a guy who loves being needed, the other person being needy turned into *me* being needy, and when you miss that call of the day, or the second call of the day, or that third call of the day, it turns into a neurotic, psychotic mess of "You weren't cheating on me, were you?" and "You don't care about me".

I have learned a LOT from that one relationship, which happens to be the only relationship I've had. After it ended, I had to learn the hard lesson of this: If you do not love yourself completely and infallibly, you have no way, reason, or right to carry on a fulfilling, loving relationship.

Needy people, as I have seen through plenty of examples such as my ex-girlfriend, my sister, my father's ex-wife, and through myself, are always going to be looking for the next best thing. They are not comfortable with themselves. They are not secure with themselves. If they are not comfortable with themselves and need a feeling of completeness from you, (which is a two-in-one package), they will be quick to find your faults, and then move onto the next, quickest opportunity.

What you have to realize, if you haven't already, is that 3 calls a day is not secure. There is a definite problem. She will never love you for who you are and for the relationship you two have, she will extract(the better, definable word for love) from the qualities that she likes from you, and then she will move on.

If you take offense from people calling you young, immature, or in any effect saying that this is the wrong and/or childish thing to do, do *not* take it to offense. You are 23 years old, and honestly I worry for you. I'm not trying to be condescending in any manner. I just hope and pray for you to realize that this isn't the kind of thing you want to follow through with.

My ex-girlfriend dumped me on the day after Christmas. I cried for weeks, and I couldn't stand being alone. But I learned that while I was here crying, she was out there on a fling with another guy, that she met right before she broke up with me. I was either going to stay here and be incomplete, or I was going to take responsibility for my life. It's amazing how comfortable I feel about myself now, and I'm so individualistic now, and with wisdom about the relationship, it would be foolish to try anything like that again.

If you want the strongest, most pure truth, read IceCream's last post. You'll find that all relationship experts, and all people in happy relationships agree 100%.

Much love and regards~

I had to learn the truth in Gibosi's post, and IceCream's various posts the hard way - it's perhaps something I'm still learning. I was the needy one in a relationship. It's... horrible, and isn't sustainable. I've since observed the same thing in my friends and family.

I don't possess the candor necessary to say anything especially unique, here. I just want to try to emphasize how much thought their points warrant. It's my personal opinion that a misunderstanding of the differences between need instead of love, requirement instead of choice, making your life about a person instead of having a person as a partner in life, is the main cause of massive relationship breakdown.

The only happy, lasting relationships I've encountered, and I grant you that I have not encountered a great deal, and have not been in any, are between two very individual persons who have their own lives, but have simply chosen to go through them together.

IceCream Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:your point about mutual dependence is a powerful one that I totally agree with. For example if 2 people both need to see each once an hour or call 3 times a day no matter what, then they can work together to satisfy one another.

um... that is not at all what i meant by a healthy interdependence. That kind of thing is needy and weird.

Perhaps there's a certain stigma attached to the word "needy". Think of it, if you prefer, as a "preference".

IceCream Wrote:What i meant was that couples who have been together a long time, tend to come to depend on each other in certain ways, and that is healthy.

Exactly what I meant.

IceCream Wrote:As an example, one (childhood sweetheart) couple I know, one of them recently had to go away for a business trip to another continent, and as they have a small child, they couldn't go together. Yeah, of course they missed each other, and i think spoke on the phone every day or few days. But neither of them was unable to function without hearing each other's voice.

Yes, if someone couldn't function without hearing another's voice, that would be a very serious problem.

IceCream Wrote:They both got on with things and enjoyed what they were doing at the time, because they're both reasonable, practical people. They'd both rather have shared the experience, because they're a strong couple. But they don't NEED to share it, they simply prefer to.

Yes, the "preference".

IceCream Wrote:and yes, it can be scary to acknowledge that there really isn't another person who needs your existence. You're not really necessary to anyone. That means they can leave you or cheat on you, or really do anything. But, isn't it a lot more fulfilling to know that someone doesn't need you but has chosen to be with you anyway?

Absolutely, this is part of the reason why kids don't like robot dogs over real dogs, the choice of a living being. But having someone who's chosen to be with you, and also needs you, is something I'm not at all averse to. I don't share this stigma against neediness. But it's more of a word choice here, "neediness" and "preference" are more the same for me, not "I'm going to DIE if I don't see you." kind of thing that many here seem to be imagining. That kind of attitude is just over the top.

============================================

Brokenvai Wrote:And a mass majority of high school relationships. The needy thing I thought I would generally like, ended up turning neurotic. I'm not saying you'll turn out like what happened in my relationship, but being a guy who loves being needed, the other person being needy turned into *me* being needy, and when you miss that call of the day, or the second call of the day, or that third call of the day, it turns into a neurotic, psychotic mess of "You weren't cheating on me, were you?" and "You don't care about me".

Hmm, yes, I could see that happening with a lot of needy relationships. That would be a very depressing situation to be in.

Brokenvai Wrote:Needy people, as I have seen through plenty of examples such as my ex-girlfriend, my sister, my father's ex-wife, and through myself, are always going to be looking for the next best thing. They are not comfortable with themselves. They are not secure with themselves. If they are not comfortable with themselves and need a feeling of completeness from you, (which is a two-in-one package), they will be quick to find your faults, and then move onto the next, quickest opportunity.

Absolutely, loving oneself is incredibly important, I agree 100%. Not all neediness deterioates into the incredibly neurotic. Some people can be jealous by default, but don't end up killing anyone out of that emotional trait.

I truly appreciate your point though, and I agree, if I'm lucky enough to find the girl and she happens to be needy, I will endeavor 100% to make sure her needs are not coming from a perceived self-deficiency of any kind, and to help her with it.

Brokenvai Wrote:What you have to realize, if you haven't already, is that 3 calls a day is not secure. There is a definite problem. She will never love you for who you are and for the relationship you two have, she will extract(the better, definable word for love) from the qualities that she likes from you, and then she will move on.

I haven't had personal experience with these "needy vampires" as they seem. Sure, like the discussion with dat5h, needy people can act creepy, property destruction, stalking behaviors,etc. But I haven't heard or read about the "neediness" and then moving on to someone else, cut and run kind of pattern.

What I have heard of is people who don't care for romance, or their partners, but are so interested and "independent" that they get bored of relationships and just "bleh" and look for something more "exciting." But the "3 calls" behavior from a mate thing being a problem, I agree with. We could always twitter to each other though.

I'll look into these "needy vampires", thank you very much for the warning.

Brokenvai Wrote:My ex-girlfriend dumped me on the day after Christmas. I cried for weeks, and I couldn't stand being alone. But I learned that while I was here crying, she was out there on a fling with another guy, that she met right before she broke up with me. I was either going to stay here and be incomplete, or I was going to take responsibility for my life. It's amazing how comfortable I feel about myself now, and I'm so individualistic now, and with wisdom about the relationship, it would be foolish to try anything like that again.

Christ, I hope you're doing much better now man. Those kinds of people can be walking shitstorms waiting to open up.

I'm very individualistic as well, I don't need to call anybody or to get calls from anybody. If all my friends moved to Europe tomorrow, it'd be crappy, but there's other people and other friends to be made.

But indeed, as you wrote, a needy person can change their mate in a relationship. I will learn from the suffering you endured, if her being needy caused your own dive into a similar mentality, then that is truly a serious concern. I want to meet a girl I can love, not one who'll make me nutty.

Brokenvai Wrote:Much love and regards~

Likewise, I hope you'll be well. And if I may say so, despite going to the one of the best High Schools in the U.S. I almost never spoke with a 16 year-old as thoughtful and expressive as yourself. I wish I had met someone like you when I was that young. I'm glad you value yourself now, and you do the under 18 crowd great credit. Good luck man, may brighter days come to both of us.

============================================

@QuackinShoe
As someone who sympathizes with needy people, I do hope you won't have to suffer like that again. For what it's worth, I hope for your success in someday finding love.

But your final paragraph is disconcerting to me. One of the main things I'm looking for is someone to share my life with. I'm not at all interested in someone who has their life and their act established already. If someone has their own career, their own friends and their own everything already up and running, then God bless them, but they've already gone by many parts of life that I'm looking to share with someone. Yes, some things you have to do by yourself, but you can do them with the presence and support of loved ones, friends, and family.

If establishing a life together with someone, like Fleetwood Mac sang of "I built my life around you..." is so godawfully painful... I don't know...

Crossing the line from a "dependent" to an "indepedent" involves a wide array of personal changes in an individual. I've never been particularly needy so I'm not familiar with the painful and suffocating hardships of being in terrible need. If the girl I hope to find would have such feelings, I'd do whatever I could to get rid of them.

After all, needy people, as with any people can change. And there's many ways by which a person can change. The problem though, is will they be completely different after they change? There's a popular saying here in NYC, "a man marries a woman expecting her to never change, a woman marries a man expecting him to change."

People are individuals, and not all needy persons will behave or develop over time in the exact same way. Yes there are patterns, and similarities, but I think much of this has to do with the difference between "preference" and "neediness."

A girl (or boy) who needs to call 3 times a day may be due for serious help or change, but if they only want to be certain that their loved one is doing well, not whether they're cheating or some other paranoid concern, then that can be healthy as well.

I'm talking about someone who would prefer to be with their loved one whenever possible, but who wouldn't have a nervous breakdown or run away simply because they were separated for a few weeks. The latter would be a liability and concern in any situation.

Still, as QuackingShoe wrote, the experiences related thus far are valuable lessons, and I do take them to heart.

I think this thread is starting to become a cry for help.

kanjiwarrior Wrote:I think this thread is starting to become a cry for help.

Then clearly you aren't reading much of it.

Good Gatsby quote. ^_^ I like this one: 'As I went over to say goodbye I saw that the expression of bewilderment had come back into Gatsby’s face, as though a faint doubt had occurred to him as to the quality of his present happiness. Almost five years! There must have been moments even that afternoon when Daisy tumbled short of his dreams – not through her own fault but because of the colossal vitality of his illusion. It had gone beyond her, beyond everything. He had thrown himself into it with a creative passion, adding to it all the time, decking it out with every bright feather that drifted his way. No amount of fire or freshness can challenge what a man will store up in his ghostly heart'.

Mightn't finding someone who isn't really settled into anything be tricky, unless she's younger than you? At twenty three, I would expect most people to have a job/be in postgraduate education, even if they've slipped into a job they don't necessarily like. Otherwise, I'd be worried they'd just drift from one thing to another (and could become more unhealthily needy, if it was in their personality to be so, without something else as a focus in their life). Would think they'll almost certainly have a network of friends, unless they're just not that good at making friends, which may also be a worry personality wise, as I know from experience (personally, I'm far, far too shy, which has generally not been a positive thing). If they're to be the kind of developed person it seems like you're looking for, they would perhaps have to have had some experiences (even just University) that you won't necessarily be able to directly share.

Of course, it can take some people longer to figure out what they want to do than others, I can understand that since it took me a while myself (am studying Medieval Literature, and will hopefully stay in the academic field).

As for change, I've never yet seen anyone change much (much to my disappointment in the case of my bratty younger sibling), so wouldn't want to risk counting on that happening (might be good or bad. My parents still argue about the same things, often trivial, they've always argued about, but they're still married). Not saying it absolutely can't happen, though. If you're going to marry someone, you pretty much have to accept them as they are (ok, that's almost certainly impossible).

TheTrueBlue Wrote:

kanjiwarrior Wrote:I think this thread is starting to become a cry for help.

Then clearly you aren't reading much of it.

You're wrong there, but you are wrong about a lot of things.

You are incredibly insecure as evident by how defensive you get and by your incredible need to prove to us you are right. You are living in a fantasy world, sadly your only going to wake up once you find this girl and she breaks your heart.

I still think the main obstacle is dealing with a conservative J-girl's parents.

Does the girl have to be Japanese? Spend some time traveling small villages in the Philippines. Around half of the girls are genuine in their desire to be a good and faithful wife. You would need several months of searching so as not to be fooled by those with less than honest motives. Her conservatively Catholic parents would not only be happy that she is marrying an American, but the town (made up mostly of her huge extended family) might throw a festival in your honor. If they are a genuinely conservative family, you will never be left alone with her, escorted everywhere you go. Even the local boys have to deal with this so you will be her first, if that is what is required in a mate.

kanjiwarrior Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:

kanjiwarrior Wrote:I think this thread is starting to become a cry for help.

Then clearly you aren't reading much of it.

You're wrong there, but you are wrong about a lot of things.

You are incredibly insecure as evident by how defensive you get and by your incredible need to prove to us you are right. You are living in a fantasy world, sadly your only going to wake up once you find this girl and she breaks your heart.

Duuude, unecessary.

bodhis Wrote:Does the girl have to be Japanese? Spend some time traveling small villages in the Philippines. Around half of the girls are genuine in their desire to be a good and faithful wife. You would need several months of searching so as not to be fooled by those with less than honest motives. Her conservatively Catholic parents would not only be happy that she is marrying an American, but the town (made up mostly of her huge extended family) might throw a festival in your honor. If they are a genuinely conservative family, you will never be left alone with her, escorted everywhere you go. Even the local boys have to deal with this so you will be her first, if that is what is required in a mate.

Sooooo... the Philippines you say? Hmmmmmm

kazelee Wrote:

kanjiwarrior Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Then clearly you aren't reading much of it.

You're wrong there, but you are wrong about a lot of things.

You are incredibly insecure as evident by how defensive you get and by your incredible need to prove to us you are right. You are living in a fantasy world, sadly your only going to wake up once you find this girl and she breaks your heart.

Duuude, unecessary.

Hahaha well you know someone has to say it, sorry I'm used to being around a lot of guys, don't mean to offend the women on this forum. Maybe he'll be lucky though and he'll never experience the pain of heartbreak, but it's unlikely.

@Kanjiwarrior

I sometimes respond to the counter-arguments and admonishments folks here make, not only because it's only proper that I respond to thoughtful criticisms of, or advice for myself with a thoughtful reply and thanks, but because this thread is a dialogue, not a one-sided shouting exhibition. This is people talking to and responding to one another.

That the thread is full of personal attacks or derisive dislike (mostly against myself) is only normal after all for any internet forum, given the wide array of persons and perspectives.

kanjiwarrior Wrote:You are incredibly insecure as evident by how defensive you get and by your incredible need to prove to us you are right.

I'm not at all insecure, you or anyone here can think what you want about me, it doesn't bother me one bit. I don't have a need to prove I'm right, I only believe that my beliefs are reasonable and have merit.

If I think a criticism is unmerited in some way, I point it out. If a point is valid, then I accept that I've been good advice and ought to think and possibly change my beliefs on account of it. I accept my imperfections and thank those who put in time to share their experience and wisdom to tune me towards the best options.

kanjiwarrior Wrote:You are living in a fantasy world, sadly your only going to wake up once you find this girl and she breaks your heart.

I live as best I can, like any determined person. If I'm currently due for heartbreak, then I thank the well-meaning and polite forum goers here who've written candidly to deter me from this course. I am not unaffected by what's been shared here with me.

====================

bodhisamaya Wrote:I still think the main obstacle is dealing with a conservative J-girl's parents.

Does the girl have to be Japanese? Spend some time traveling small villages in the Philippines. Around half of the girls are genuine in their desire to be a good and faithful wife. You would need several months of searching so as not to be fooled by those with less than honest motives. Her conservatively Catholic parents would not only be happy that she is marrying an American, but the town (made up mostly of her huge extended family) might throw a festival in your honor. If they are a genuinely conservative family, you will never be left alone with her, escorted everywhere you go. Even the local boys have to deal with this so you will be her first, if that is what is required in a mate.

Sorry, bodhisamaya, I can only just barely stand religious people who are openly devout as close friends because I don't have to live with them, but it's hard to imagine getting hitched to someone like that.

It's like scientology, to most people, scientology is a laughable farce that's obviously full of crap. But to areligious people, dogmatic adherence to Christianity or other religions is very similarly senseless when there's so much textual and empirical evidence that refutes nearly all of it.

Does the girl have to be Japanese? It'd be great if she were... I do agree that I would need at least several months of searching irregardless. But your point about conservatism correlating with strict courtship customs is certainly right on target. I imagine it's the same in China or Canada or anywhere else. I don't speak any Tagalog though, unforunately, lol....

====================

Ampharos64 Wrote:Good Gatsby quote. ^_^ I like this one: 'As I went over to say goodbye I saw that the expression of bewilderment had come back into Gatsby’s face, as though a faint doubt had occurred to him as to the quality of his present happiness. Almost five years! There must have been moments even that afternoon when Daisy tumbled short of his dreams – not through her own fault but because of the colossal vitality of his illusion. It had gone beyond her, beyond everything. He had thrown himself into it with a creative passion, adding to it all the time, decking it out with every bright feather that drifted his way. No amount of fire or freshness can challenge what a man will store up in his ghostly heart'.

Excellent Gatsby quote! Like any superb use of a quote, it's curiously appropriate perhaps. The bookworm in me is fired up!

Go Go Gatsby!

"I was thirty. Before me stretched the portentous, menacing road of a new decade.

It was seven o'clock when we got into the coupe with him and started for Long Island. Tom talked incessantly, exulting and laughing, but his voice was as remote from Jordan and me as the foreign clamor on the sidewalk or the tumult of the elevated overhead. Human sympathy has its limits, and we were content to let all their tragic arguments fade with the city lights behind. Thirty--the promise of a decade of loneliness, a thinning list of single men to know, a thinning brief-case of enthusiasm, thinning hair. But there was Jordan beside me, who, unlike Daisy, was too wise ever to carry well-forgotten dreams from age to age. As we passed over the dark bridge her wan face fell lazily against my coat's shoulder and the formidable stroke of thirty died away with the reassuring pressure of her hand."

Ampharos64 Wrote:Mightn't finding someone who isn't really settled into anything be tricky, unless she's younger than you?

Yes.

Ampharos64 Wrote:If they're to be the kind of developed person it seems like you're looking for, they would perhaps have to have had some experiences (even just University) that you won't necessarily be able to directly share.

University is great. Hat's off to ladies with liberal arts know-how! I'm not putting college graduates off the roster.

Ampharos64 Wrote:As for change, I've never yet seen anyone change much (much to my disappointment in the case of my bratty younger sibling), so wouldn't want to risk counting on that happening (might be good or bad. My parents still argue about the same things, often trivial, they've always argued about, but they're still married). Not saying it absolutely can't happen, though. If you're going to marry someone, you pretty much have to accept them as they are (ok, that's almost certainly impossible).

Why is it impossible to accept them as they are? And human change is difficult, but if methadone were worthless, it wouldn't be so widely used.

I have a business friend who used to be a heroin addict. When he related his very long but harrowing story to me I realized that the hardest kinds of change require truly drastic measures. But it's not impossible.

====================

Musashi Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:@Musashi

哇! Musashi 真胆壮呀! 可能我该叫您大哥吧? 主席或者主持人都没问题! Musashi 大哥不怕! 来吧! ハハハ。　怖いな方ですよね，兄貴は？ハハハ。

刚才向我写那个臭几巴他每次都是这样的。这种人对他客气没用的。本来就没什么事然后他转到好像我犯了一个大错，叉他的。这里每个人都可以自己想什么就写什么对吗？而且是写写谈谈而已吗没什么大不了你说对吗。那个吡每次都在教导我哦，他以为他是谁啊。别跟我开玩笑。如果他那么不喜欢我写的东西，那就不看吧，说那么多废话，我还没跟他说叫他去跳楼好过。其实我这个人很善良的但对付有些人实在没办法
没事的，我支持你！

君子不重，則不威。學則不固。主忠信。无友不如己者。國，則勿憚改。

大哥, 您也在寻找爱吗? 是不是同样得准备去大陆还是日本? 这些西方人真的看不起处女/闺女.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I don't have a need to prove I'm right, I only believe that my beliefs are reasonable and have merit.

I don't really find a need to criticize what you've been talking about, but you do seem awfully sure of yourself. You're too sure of yourself, and that's making you come off as odd and even a bit delusional.

Tzadeck Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I don't have a need to prove I'm right, I only believe that my beliefs are reasonable and have merit.

I don't really find a need to criticize what you've been talking about, but you do seem awfully sure of yourself. You're too sure of yourself, and that's making you come off as odd and even a bit delusional.

I don't say: "No that's wrong, here's why I, instead, am the one who is right."

I try always to say: "Hmm, that's a great point. Certainly you are right in the following regards (list). But I think my own perspective has these merits as well. (list) Nevertheless I acknowledge the truth of your words and will think over them carefully. Thank you for your input."

I've thought my goals out many times before, adjusting and tuning what needs improvement. Many of the same faults brought up have come up already in my planning. If I feel a particular fault is invalid or can be mitigated for some reason, then I'll share those reasons. Perhaps someone can further enlighten me on why that's not a good enough solution to the problem.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I don't have a need to prove I'm right, I only believe that my beliefs are reasonable and have merit.

I don't really find a need to criticize what you've been talking about, but you do seem awfully sure of yourself. You're too sure of yourself, and that's making you come off as odd and even a bit delusional.

I don't say: "No that's wrong, here's why I, instead, am the one who is right."

You're right, I certainly haven't heard you say that. What I mean is that it seems like even when people make really good points you gloss them over quickly.

Tzadeck Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:I don't really find a need to criticize what you've been talking about, but you do seem awfully sure of yourself. You're too sure of yourself, and that's making you come off as odd and even a bit delusional.

I don't say: "No that's wrong, here's why I, instead, am the one who is right."

You're right, I certainly haven't heard you say that. What I mean is that it seems like even when people make really good points you gloss them over quickly.

I've read and considered every single word written. Sometimes the good points were made and refuted earlier. A lot of times people who missed a vital post bring up things already gone over.

If I reply to a point and get no answer. Then my reply stands if an extremely similar point is brought up later. If there's something critical that I've mistakenly neglected, please let me know.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:If establishing a life together with someone, like Fleetwood Mac sang of "I built my life around you..." is so godawfully painful... I don't know...

One should be very careful about taking advice about romance from popular culture - especially considering the love lives (and otherwise personal lives) of the people who create it. Popular culture prints out signs that say "Love is wanting you to want me." Popular culture tells you that the solution to all relationship woes is to make a broad romantic gesture that somehow covers up your deep, underlying issues - as long as you're meant to be.
Popular culture's views on romance are, well, romantic. But they're anything but realistic. A lot of people enter into relationships with ideals built around that. A lot of people leave with broken hearts.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:But your final paragraph is disconcerting to me. One of the main things I'm looking for is someone to share my life with. I'm not at all interested in someone who has their life and their act established already. If someone has their own career, their own friends and their own everything already up and running, then God bless them, but they've already gone by many parts of life that I'm looking to share with someone. Yes, some things you have to do by yourself, but you can do them with the presence and support of loved ones, friends, and family.

In some kind of symmetry, I find this to be one of the most disconcerting thing you've written so far :/
Haven't you already got all of those things? How can you share the founding of them if you already have them? Do you mean you want to give what you have to her, who has nothing?
Sharing your life doesn't mean living the same life. It almost seems that you want her to share your life, or that you want to have a hand in every aspect of her life, and not that you want to share your lives. And that's the thing: people have lives, friends, goals and ambitions that have nothing to do with you. They can't latch onto you and then just follow you 'til your climax - not if they're healthy.

And this isn't the same as 'a shared vision for the future,' as it was very well put. Many of your goals need to be similar. It can't be only one of you who wants children. It can't be only one of you who wants to travel. It can't be only one of you that wants to be involved in a small business. It might be harder to be a starving artist if your potential partner would like to have the finer things in life.
Those things are important. This isn't about that.
This is about being your own people. Your lives may coincide, but they are not one and they can't be.

You clearly already have your own life, that you want to assimilate her in to. Why can't she?


All of that in mind, I wasn't even meaning to speak of before you meet, before. I was actually largely focused on how you would both grow in separate directions during the relationship - the way individuals do.