Aijin Wrote:All girls have dirty minds. The ones who claim not to are actually aliens ... or cyborgs... I haven't quite decided which yet. Eh, let's just combine the two to get alien cyborgs and call it a day.

Well, TrueBlue, I wish you best of luck in your quest. Sorry if I sounded insulting or demeaning at all, I didn't mean to come off that way.

Thank you very much for the well wishes.

Your initial reaction was certainly understandable given the miscommunication on my part.

I'm glad we were able to discuss the issues at hand productively and arrive at some points of acknowledgement, if not full agreement.

I really am grateful for the thoughtful folks here who wish me well, and some additional info, maybe some links on info about お見合い, or Japanese girls in the 田舎, would also be very welcome.

This...is a very, very awkward conversation.

How will you cope with the neediness of this woman you so desire? I ask because, in my experience, neediness is a perfectly complimentary trait to all those traits you want in a woman.

Additionally, you have dated before, right? If you don't want sex just yet, you at least date in order to get experience, I assume.

IceCream Wrote:Ive never met a girl who claimed she hasnt got a dirty mind...

youve really got to stop looking for girls in space!! they're.... over..... here.......

I have an unfortunate history of associating with Christians and (more recently) Japanese women

QuackingShoe Wrote:I have an unfortunate history of associating with Christians and (more recently) Japanese women

All the women that I have ever been with were as dirty if not more dirty than me. That being said, I had serious problems with the psychological implication Christianity had on the women I've dated because they thought they were evil but could not help their dirtiness. Religion has a rope tied around some people, and it keeps squeezing tighter and tighter.

dat5h Wrote:How will you cope with the neediness of this woman you so desire? I ask because, in my experience, neediness is a perfectly complimentary trait to all those traits you want in a woman.

Additionally, you have dated before, right? If you don't want sex just yet, you at least date in order to get experience, I assume.

I'm not sure what you mean by complimentary. Do you mean being needy is akin to or closely related to or likely to appear with those other characteristics I wrote about?

I like to be needed by my friends and family, and to give and provide for them. I helped raise my sister and she was bawling and spoiled as all heck as a young child but she could always throw a pillow at me or call my cell anytime, it wasn't terribly unbearable.

Are there specific behaviors or situations that stem from being needy that even those who like needy people would be taken aback by, that come to mind?

Re: dating - Yes, especially dates recommended by friends can be fun... or "interesting"... depending on who they want to inflict on you.

and 賛成 on the religious stuff. With due respect to religious folks, religion causes great harm in the world everyday. Not that other things don't but...

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by complimentary. Do you mean being needy is akin to or closely related to or likely to appear with those other characteristics I wrote about?

I mean that it is more likely. This is because neediness seems to improve the chances of innocence because they tend to scare people away. *edit* This also leads to increased need for attention because of their damaged ego... *end edit*

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I like to be needed by my friends and family, and to give and provide for them. I helped raise my sister and she was bawling and spoiled as all heck as a young child but she could always throw a pillow at me or call my cell anytime, it wasn't terribly unbearable.

"Needy" and "being needed" are two different things in my mind. Neediness is generally regarding a constant need and desire for attention. Extreme neediness, as I have experienced, moves to an almost neurotic psychosis. In essence, if you are not within sight or giving compliments every hour of the day, you are assumed to be hurting the relationship and will see a rage beyond the worst nightmares of Stephen King. As a girl with no experience, she will not know what she wants and will assume that you should give it to her. If what you give her is below her unknown desires she will let you know with a mental kick to the crotch. Innocence is no virtue in my humble opinion.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Are there specific behaviors or situations that stem from being needy that even those who like needy people would be taken aback by that come to mind?

Are you for real? I am having a harder time believing your story ... you seem so innocent/ignorant for a 23 year old (note that ignorant does NOT mean stupid. I hate how everyone always thinks that). Maybe you should start studying more kanji.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Re: dating - Yes, especially dates recommended by friends can be fun... or "interesting"... depending on who they want to inflict on you.

hehe blind dates are scary, but I had one. I have my 6 month anniversary soon

TrueBlue Wrote:@activeaero

Good job jumping in to do nothing but personally attack me. Your definition of what sexual experience is your own. But in world legal codes, it's not rape if there isn't penetration. There's a clear dividing line, and I have more adherents on my side than there are on yours

So to defend your position that you've never had a sexual encounter the best you can do is bring up rape laws? Good grief.

What you are talking about is the definition of "sex" in terms of people referring to the act of penetration. This has NOTHING to do with the definition of the type of sexual act you are talking about. If you want to talk about laws then I'll bring up the fact that you can be charged with SEXUAL harassment without even touching someone.

By your own confession you have stated that you have stimulated a girl to orgasm. When you talk about "clear dividing lines" then you most definitely crossed it as there is not ONE sane person on this planet that would say bringing someone to a freaking orgasm is NOT sexual in nature.

Sticking your penis inside of her is accomplishing the EXACT same tasks just through a different method. It's one person's contacting another person to stimulate SEXUAL fulfillment. Pretending that there is some magic involved if you simply use another part of your body to perform a task YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE is ridiculous.

This is why I call you delusional...because you are. It is highly obvious that you can not deal with reality and are simply disregarding any notion that doesn't fit in with your fantasy world.

You've had a sexual experience with a female and it didn't transport you to a magical paradise, deal with it.

dat5h Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by complimentary. Do you mean being needy is akin to or closely related to or likely to appear with those other characteristics I wrote about?

I mean that it is more likely. This is because neediness seems to improve the chances of innocence because they tend to scare people away. *edit* This also leads to increased need for attention because of their damaged ego... *end edit*

Ok.

dat5h Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I like to be needed by my friends and family, and to give and provide for them. I helped raise my sister and she was bawling and spoiled as all heck as a young child but she could always throw a pillow at me or call my cell anytime, it wasn't terribly unbearable.

"Needy" and "being needed" are two different things in my mind. Neediness is generally regarding a constant need and desire for attention. Extreme neediness, as I have experienced, moves to an almost neurotic psychosis. In essence, if you are not within sight or giving compliments every hour of the day, you are assumed to be hurting the relationship and will see a rage beyond the worst nightmares of Stephen King. As a girl with no experience, she will not know what she wants and will assume that you should give it to her. If what you give her is below her unknown desires she will let you know with a mental kick to the crotch. Innocence is no virtue in my humble opinion.

Hmm, the scenario you describe "re: mental kick to crotch" or "Stephen King Carrie-esque rage" is certainly not good. I don't think I'd have problems being in her sight or complimenting her every hour though. But a certain level of neediness is endearing, no?

dat5h Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Are there specific behaviors or situations that stem from being needy that even those who like needy people would be taken aback by that come to mind?

Are you for real? I am having a harder time believing your story ... you seem so innocent/ignorant for a 23 year old (note that ignorant does NOT mean stupid. I hate how everyone always thinks that). Maybe you should start studying more kanji.

I'm gotten the whole neediness is freaking horrible stories from my friends. Car tires getting slashed, windows broken in, creepy answering machine messages. But I was asking about specific instances where someone has no problem or gets along with needy people, but STILL they do things that are just too much. Better yet, if it involves individuals from the Japanese dating scene.

dat5h Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Re: dating - Yes, especially dates recommended by friends can be fun... or "interesting"... depending on who they want to inflict on you.

hehe blind dates are scary, but I had one. I have my 6 month anniversary soon

おめでとうございます。

activeaero Wrote:

TrueBlue Wrote:@activeaero

Good job jumping in to do nothing but personally attack me. Your definition of what sexual experience is your own. But in world legal codes, it's not rape if there isn't penetration. There's a clear dividing line, and I have more adherents on my side than there are on yours

So to defend your position that you've never had a sexual encounter the best you can do is bring up rape laws? Good grief.

I'd take the constituted laws of industrialized nations regarding the significance of penetration over online hearsay, yes. No disrespect intended.

activeaero Wrote:What you are talking about is the definition of "sex" in terms of people referring to the act of penetration. This has NOTHING to do with the definition of the type of sexual act you are talking about. If you want to talk about laws then I'll bring up the fact that you can be charged with SEXUAL harassment without even touching someone.

Yes, but my definition of sex as I refer to it here has to do with penetration. That is what I'm talking about.

activeaero Wrote:By your own confession you have stated that you have stimulated a girl to orgasm. When you talk about "clear dividing lines" then you most definitely crossed it as there is not ONE sane person on this planet that would say bringing someone to a freaking orgasm is NOT sexual in nature.

It was sexual in nature, sure. Is a high school girl not a virgin because her boyfriend orally stimulated her to orgasm? I don't think you'd have to be crazy to permit that there are those who would say she or the guy are still virgins.

activeaero Wrote:Sticking your penis inside of her is accomplishing the EXACT same tasks just through a different method. It's one person's contacting another person to stimulate SEXUAL fulfillment. Pretending that there is some magic involved if you simply use another part of your body to perform a task YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE is ridiculous.

Indeed, it is sexual fulfillment through a different method. I don't pretend there's any magic involved but I acknowledge what penetration is and what it isn't.

activeaero Wrote:This is why I call you delusional...because you are. It is highly obvious that you can not deal with reality and are simply disregarding any notion that doesn't fit in with your fantasy world.

Yet more personal attacks that do no credit to your arguments or your credibility. Please try to calm down and refrain from personal attacks here if possible. We can all discuss things like mature and rational adults.

activeaero Wrote:You've had a sexual experience with a female and it didn't transport you to a magical paradise, deal with it.

Yes I've had a sexual experience with a female. I am still a 童貞。 I never expect or expected any magical paradise and I don't have to deal with anything.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Hmm, the scenario you describe "re: mental kick to crotch" or "Stephen King Carrie-esque rage" is certainly not good. I don't think I'd have problems being in her sight or complimenting her every hour though. But a certain level of neediness is endearing, no?

I'm gotten the whole neediness is freaking horrible stories from my friends. Car tires getting slashed, windows broken in, creepy answering machine messages. But I was asking about specific instances where someone has no problem or gets along with needy people, but STILL they do things that are just too much. Better yet, if it involves individuals from the Japanese dating scene.

Glad to hear you are not completely ignorant of the subject. All I can do is warn you to cautious and not let you future girls boss you around too much. Each person must let the other be free to express their feelings. A healthy relationship stems from both people being happy. If you start feeling oppression you may build a grudge but feel like there is no escape. It will turn everyone involved into a crazy person.

You may one day find that your dream girl is more like a dream friend gone array. This should not scare you, but know that waiting too long to begin experiencing these feelings may make it harder for you to cope rationally.

dat5h Wrote:Glad to hear you are not completely ignorant of the subject. All I can do is warn you to cautious and not let you future girls boss you around too much. Each person must let the other be free to express their feelings. A healthy relationship stems from both people being happy. If you start feeling oppression you may build a grudge but feel like there is no escape. It will turn everyone involved into a crazy person.

You may one day find that your dream girl is more like a dream friend gone array. This should not scare you, but know that waiting too long to begin experiencing these feelings may make it harder for you to cope rationally.

Your post is a bit alarming, dat5h. I already wrote and I absolutely agree that both partners being happy is paramount.

What's most bothering me is that I'm not sure I understand your metaphor of a dream girl turning into a dream friend and coping rationally in that scenario.

Tolerating needy partners may increase the risk of a relationship becoming oppressive or unsafe, but I do believe that it's worth the risk though, if worse comes to worse, I can always change my legal 外人通称名　and run the heck away.

In all seriousness though, lots of people have and live with needy partners on a daily basis. Sure some of them are miserable, but lots of people who don't have needy partners also aren't happy in their relationship.

Still, I'd really appreciate it if you could explain your metaphor to me in different terms. Because as you pointed out, the girl I'm looking for will likely be a needy person.

Sometimes, relationships are unhealthy and we should move on. The steeper the sides of the pedestal on which we place these constructs (dating, sex, women, etc...), the harder it is to leap off. You need to face the fact that you may end up having sex with the girl that you THOUGHT was the girl of your dreams but turns out you should separate from. Then you lost your virginity to someone and have to move on with your life. What happens then? You just need to get out there and start multiplying.

Giving a hymen check to the women you date is just naive and will end up getting you hurt.

dat5h Wrote:Sometimes, relationships are unhealthy and we should move on. The steeper the sides of the pedestal on which we place these constructs (dating, sex, women, etc...), the harder it is to leap off. You need to face the fact that you may end up having sex with the girl that you THOUGHT was the girl of your dreams but turns out you should separate from. Then you lost your virginity to someone and have to move on with your life. What happens then?

You're absolutely right, that is indeed a possibility that I need to bear in mind. I imagine I'll get through it, as the Okinawans say "何くるないさ"。 Of course I'll be emotionally devastated at the time as with most anyone who has to break up with someone they thought they loved.

But I imagine I may similarly do things other people do to get over someone, get a haircut, new furniture, go on a roadtrip, get dead piss drunk. Repeatedly. Bury myself in comfort food and soft pillows, adopt some ferrets, etc.

I will try my best to not dive in too quickly with any one girl, as the posts here and my own thinking have convinced me that this is a huge pitfall to beware of.

dat5h Wrote:You just need to get out there and start multiplying.

^_^;; not sure what you mean here. "Go forth, be fruitful, and multiply"? Err, 了解？

dat5h Wrote:Giving a hymen check to the women you date is just naive and will end up getting you hurt.

嘆声。。。　As I wrote previously, there's ways of asking that are not at all direct. For example I can ask her if she's ever had a serious boyfriend, after I tell her I've never had a serious girlfriend. And go from there until I get the information I'm looking for. Of course trust and intimacy as well as 空気を読めの能力　play a big part. But I'm not going to have this experience with any girl I don't trust to a great degree.

Again, as with the previous paragraph, there exists the possiblity of a misunderstanding or a mistake in this regard. But you can bet the bank I'll be on highest guard against such a thing.

Good luck, sir.

... I enjoy this quote.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Go forth, be fruitful, and multiply

Aijin Wrote:

kazelee Wrote:So you're a pianist as well? And you tried to learn it? The closest I've come to virtuosity is Chopin's 10-1 and Gnomenreigen. To the 10-1 I say, never again.

I used to be sadly I had to give it up due to an injury.

Damn. Sorry to hear that.

I've been neglecting the 88 for a while.

*guiltily walks back over to piano*

Oh, wow. You guys have been having a really really, um, bizarre thread while I was away from this forum. I was thinking of posting in IceCream's Japanese thread and answering questions fluent Japanese speakers hadn't answered, but this whole Love in Japan thing totally got me and I ended up reading through the whole thread in one sitting...

@TheTrueBlue
Can I ask what makes you think Japan would be a better place to find your kind of girl? If I understand your posts correctly, you think anecdotal evidence suggests Japan has more shy, innocent virgins you described than other countries.Care to elaborate on that? I'm interested in what exactly makes you think so.

No. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there's no such girl in Japan, but it doesn't seem to me going to Japan makes it particularly easier to find the ideal girl you're talking about unless you're the kind of guy who lusts for 10 year olds. Besides, there is a language barrier, which definitely makes things a lot more difficult.

If I were you, I'd ask IceCream where she's from and go straight to a library in the countryside; she apparently was an innocent virgin several years ago and says such a girl will be in a rural area. Can't remember who said libraries were good, but obviously IceCream is a bookworm.

By the way, I heard from multiple Japanese females that girls in rural areas tend to lose their virginity earlier than those in major cities because of the lack of entertainment.

@dat5h
どうもありがとう

magamo Wrote:@TheTrueBlue
Can I ask what makes you think Japan would be a better place to find your kind of girl? If I understand your posts correctly, you think anecdotal evidence suggests Japan has more shy, innocent virgins you described than other countries.Care to elaborate on that? I'm interested in what exactly makes you think so.

magamo, as for why Japan is where I need to go, it was in a previous post, Aijin brought up the same issue and I also referred to arguments I'd already written.

I did not write that I think there are more "shy, innocent virgins" in Japan. I wrote that I wanted a girl who was kind, gentle, and caring, and who like me, is physically a virgin, so that we can share that experience with one another. That is presently one of my main goals.

magamo Wrote:No. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there's no such girl in Japan, but it doesn't seem to me going to Japan makes it particularly easier to find the ideal girl you're talking about unless you're the kind of guy who lusts for 10 year olds. Besides, there is a language barrier, which definitely makes things a lot more difficult.

I will abide by, and have no issues with any or all Japanese laws regarding human intimacy. I've spent a night locked up for getting into a stupid argument with a crazy neighbor in an apt. building. As a crazy old lady, her "bruise" (from weeks ago) won over "young guy who had a shitty day and made the bad decision to confront a harrassing stalker with a documented record of similar behavior." No way in hell I'm going back there when I don't need or have reason to.

There are plenty of girls of the kind I'm looking for who are of legal age. And I acknowledge that the language barrier may be difficult, but doesn't it also have the potential to be rewarding? Or bonding? Or interesting and educational pillowtalk?

magamo Wrote:If I were you, I'd ask IceCream where she's from and go straight to a library in the countryside; she apparently was an innocent virgin several years ago and says such a girl will be in a rural area. Can't remember who said libraries were good, but obviously IceCream is a bookworm.

I'm sure IceCream is a fine woman. She brought up Kant and Hegel and had a bloody mushroom in her avatar. She's cool. But I think I'll wait for some more advice before driving to JFK and taking off.

magamo Wrote:By the way, I heard from multiple Japanese females that girls in rural areas tend to lose their virginity earlier than those in major cities because of the lack of entertainment.

くそたれ！マジで怒ったぞ！

Thank you for the info. But I do believe there are conservative families in rural areas who would disparage and strongly (successfully) discourage such a relationship? I'm not entirely closed off to the idea of a 健全なお付き合い。 Of course I'd be a lot more careful in that case before tying the knot.

Rice farmer's daughter?

At least the dad won't have a shotgun to chase you off with

Jarvik7 Wrote:Rice farmer's daughter?

At least the dad won't have a shotgun to chase you off with

I'm not sure 矢文 with my name on it would be less painful ^_^;;.

TrueBlue, many people in this thread have given you lots of good, realistic advice but you blow everyone off because it dashes this crazy, unrealistic, warped dream you have. You need to get real.

magamo Wrote:Oh, wow. You guys have been having a really really, um, bizarre thread while I was away from this forum. I was thinking of posting in IceCream's Japanese thread and answering questions fluent Japanese speakers hadn't answered, but this whole Love in Japan thing totally got me and I ended up reading through the whole thread in one sitting...

It's horrible to look back at 16 pages of this and realize you've spent whatever amount of your life reading through it, isn't it?

slivir Wrote:TrueBlue, many people in this thread have given you lots of good, realistic advice but you blow everyone off because it dashes this crazy, unrealistic, warped dream you have. You need to get real.

No, I've responded with what I believe and am not alone in thinking are reasonable arguments. If you could be specific instead of just insulting, I would be appreciative. But please don't bring up points I already addressed. I notice a lot of the misunderstandings here are because posts weren't carefully read.

@QuackingShoe - Stay tuned. or Not. Up to you.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I did not write that I think there are more "shy, innocent virgins" in Japan. I wrote that I wanted a girl who was kind, gentle, and caring, and who like me, is physically a virgin, so that we can share that experience with one another. That is presently one of my main goals.

Sorry for using the wrong adjectives. My English sucks. Still doesn't seem Japan is good for your goal, though.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I'm sure IceCream is a fine woman. She brought up Kant and Hegel and had a bloody mushroom in her avatar. She's cool. But I think I'll wait for some more advice before driving to JFK and taking off.

I'm not saying IceCream is the girl. I mean, a fine woman says the countryside would be better and other female posters who are rooting for you recommended libraries. They all seem to be avid readers. It just my stupid brain tells me a girl who is kind, gentle, and caring, and who like you, is physically a virgin will be in such a place.

Well, never mind. I'm not that serious anyway.

TheTrueBlue Wrote:くそたれ！マジで怒ったぞ！

Thank you for the info. But I do believe there are conservative families in rural areas who would disparage and strongly (successfully) discourage such a relationship? I'm not entirely closed off to the idea of a 健全なお付き合い。 Of course I'd be a lot more careful in that case before tying the knot.

くそったれ！ is a harsh word. If you really mean it, um, I don't care.

As for the "why Japan?" question, I just wanted to know the materials that taught you Japan was the place you need to go to. You didn't give any links, name books, or say who said so. Or did I miss some of your posts?

QuackingShoe Wrote:It's horrible to look back at 16 pages of this and realize you've spent whatever amount of your life reading through it, isn't it?

...yes. I don't know if it was worth it...

TheTrueBlue Wrote:

FutureBlues Wrote:

TheTrueBlue Wrote:I have to respectfully disagree here, for many reasons already stated. It is what it is, but what it is, is not so insignificant as many here make it out to be. My experience indicates to me having sex for the first time is a big step for most couples.

What experience? You have none.

I responded to every one of your points as respectfully and thoroughly as I could on page 9 and you come back with an ad hominem attack.

I would give a real reply to your post, but it isn't worth the trouble. Same@Nii87

This is not an attack. It's the truth. How can your "experience" indicate anything when one of the first things you established with your presence in this thread was that you hadn't ever had any?

You've got scores of people POSSESSING RELEVANT EXPERIENCE both in Japan and elsewhere, including a number of girls, at least one of them Japanese, all basically telling you the same thing and you're sitting here ignoring it, telling me that I don't appreciate myself, or sex and/or that I probably am dissatisfied with my life and really, it's all very funny coming from someone who, right now, is preparing, preparing, preparing, instead of doing now and enjoying now and knowing now.

You want my opinion? What you're looking for is going to be harder to find in Japan than it is in America. I've lived here in Japan for 3 years, and it took me 2 years to find the girl I'm dating now. Two years. One of those years was in a Japanese college in Nagoya, one of the larger metropolitan areas of Japan. The other two years were in the countryside. Coming to Japan looking for a virgin to marry is like going to Mars and hoping to find life. It's not impossible and it may happen one day, but really, if you can't find someone to date in a city like New York, I don't know if you're going to find anyone here either, where its far harder for you, both linguistically and culturally to even get a foothold with potential mates.