It did seem one problem with many college classes I took in the US were the students. None wanted homework. Everyone wanted little bonuses to add to their grade. If the teacher did not show up on time, they all wanted to leave right then and there. It's like they didn't want the knowledge, just something to say the knowledge was there even if it wasn't. The main reason probably was they did not care about that class. This mentality can be infective.

Thinking back, I didn't care about Health or Public Speaking. I pretty much took the above mentality with those classes. Most of the work was done in class, with little effort extended beyond that.

Like someone else mentioned elsewhere, ultimately Universities are about finding people that keep enough passion to go on to get PhD's and develop for the Universities. Everything else ultimately is glorified vocational classes. Vocational classes are outstanding, but you don't need to spend 30,000 a year for it.

Point being, like is said above, take the class if you have a passion about it. The class and the teacher and the material can provide fodder that you'll build on even outside of class. Otherwise, you're going to spend money just to get something that says you have knowledge in something you likely have forgotten.

edsmaffs Wrote:I've been learning French in UK education for ... ooo... over 7 years now?

And I can still barely understand it. That's enough evidence for me to not believe in them!

The thing is, classes don't necessarily teach you how to speak the language, as illogical as that may seem. In French classes I can conjugate verbs in so many different tenses, but ask me to order a sandwich and I struggle! It's not a good way to learn it for speaking, or even just understanding. I'm still amazed at the language education system in the UK; I don't consider myself 'bad' at languages, I think that if I'd used the AJATT system for French I'd understand it better in about 6 months than I do now.

Khatzumoto (author of AJATT) doesn't generally point fingers at something without a good reason. If you read what he's written he does explain why he hates classes - I think one of the articles was even called 'Why Classes Suck'! They don't teach you confidence in speaking or encourage you to listen to 'proper' pieces of the language, at all. Whoever made the curriculum can't have been very clever, in my opinion...

Also, remember that with Japanese you've got the kanji 'barrier' as well. The Jouyou order isn't as good a way as tackling the kanji as the mnemonically-induced hypothetical battering ram of Heisig

If you are going to take classes, carry on listening to 'real' Japanese in your free time, and definitely continue with RTK. I'm only half way through, and I'm still able to guess meaning of words written in kanji. You won't be able to learn 20 kanji a day (average amount I'm doing at the moment) by repetition and rote without killing yourself. And there are people who manage to do 100 kanji a day with RTK (I'm in awe of you!), which just wouldn't be possible any other way.

Good luck!

I managed that feat of 100 kanji a day through Heisig, but I will be honest.. Even with Heisig it was difficult as hell. But now that I'm past RTK 1 and a little over 1000 Hanzi it has become a lot easier to learn any Characters and am learning around 80 hanzi a day no sweat with my own made up primitives and stories(unfortunately not in a Heisig like order, but using Heisig tactics I can power through 80 new plus sentences in both Japanese and Chinese.



Also On the Class Subject, I will be going to China and taking language courses (not because I love the idea of courses, but I want to go to Asia already! tired of the waiting and I want some real life everyday motivation). Has anyone taken courses in China before? Any opinions and information about them would be great.

vosmiura Wrote:I'm totally not anti-university education. I think the decision needs to be based on enthusiasm for the language. I can think of several cases like:


a) You're not very enthusiastic, so don't put in extra effort than the bare minimum needed for classes, and you make minimal progress which isn't very much.

b) You're content with the pace of the course and apply yourself just right to get the most from the course.

c) You are very enthusiastic and put in extra effort and you soon find the classes are holding you back more than helping.

In the case of © I wouldn't recommend classes, unless it is at a very intensive course.

That's a nice way of putting it, also Nukemarine^^


I suppose its true too because with languages a certificate on paper can be obtained through something like JLPT, but you can't easily obtain a cert for a Bachelor of Engineering no matter how smart you are.

But I'm sure with option c) you could stick yourself in a high level class but then other problems kick in.

I kinda derailed this thread a tad bit. So anyway try a class, see how it is note how it affects your progress and drop out if you feel it to be a waste of time or useless etc.

Ultimately, all your progress are belong to you


Keep at it, it will get fun soon,

Noooooooooooooooooo

Yonosa Wrote:Also On the Class Subject, I will be going to China and taking language courses (not because I love the idea of courses, but I want to go to Asia already! tired of the waiting and I want some real life everyday motivation). Has anyone taken courses in China before? Any opinions and information about them would be great.

You should talk to John of sinosplice.com.

mafried Wrote:

Yonosa Wrote:Also On the Class Subject, I will be going to China and taking language courses (not because I love the idea of courses, but I want to go to Asia already! tired of the waiting and I want some real life everyday motivation). Has anyone taken courses in China before? Any opinions and information about them would be great.

You should talk to John of sinosplice.com.

Thanks, I appreciate it man.