I know, everybody has their colorful reasons why they study Japanese but let's face it, one of the biggest reasons is ofcourse: I want to live and work in Japan. (admit it )
But landing a job in your own field and getting the promise to work and live in Japan is downright difficult (just knowing Japanese is not a 'skill').

Let's say you're studying computer science and you want to work in Japan, why would a Japanese company go through all the trouble (not to mention money) to get someone from oversea while they can get one in their own country. Ofcourse there are many exceptions like having a special skill not many have, being an artist or musician etc. But many of us don't fall in that category so we have to find other ways to get there.

For people from English speaking countries, namely USA, Canada, Britain and Australia, there is the widely used option to become the cliché English teacher/tutor/assistant and all the programs(like JET) making this possible seems almost like a 'too easy' way for those people to 'set foot on land in Japan'. We've all heard the stories of people who's native tongue is English working as an English teacher whilst not actually being qualified for it, but it's just because his/her native tongue is English (I have an ABC friend from LA who's a certified teacher and she was refused as an English teacher and the job went to some German guy with a heavy German accent just because he had blond hair and blue eyes, now that's bad). I'm not criticizing anybody, lot's of people seem to use it as a stepping stone to further themselves in whatever direction, and hey, whatever works right? It almost seems unfair to people from non-English speaking countries. What about them?

Now my question:
『Do people from non-English speaking countries have to work harder to get there vs the ones that do?』

(not out to offend anybody and with all respect) 『Do you feel people from English-speaking countries (USA, Canada, UK, Australia etc.) 'cheat'?』

*obviously not talking about the learning-Japanese-aspect
**ofcourse I'd like to hear the opinions of non-native English speakers as well as the native ones(the majority of us here are obviously from those countries)

Since I took the military path, it was easy for me to get to Japan. I can even utilize my connections after I retire in 4 years to get a job in many locations around Japan or Korea. That I'm married to a Japanese citizen makes it even easier should I pursue options outside US government areas in Japan.

So, I don't know if it's "cheating", but it's easier. However, I think the "blame" falls on the Japanese government, not those taking advantage of it.

I'm considering the Air Force as an intelligence officer once I graduate college (i'm also married to a Japanese citizen).... i'm just going to keep my fingers crossed that i get stationed in Japan... Japan is my retiring goal as well...

It's definitely easier for English speakers since they have the English teacher option. Regardless though, I believe it comes down to determination. If you have a proper college education, is fluent in Japanese and REALLY want to work there, you're eventually going to find something. Maybe not a well paid job, maybe not in an area you sought for... but there should be something.

Musashi Wrote:『Do you feel people from English-speaking countries (USA, Canada, UK, Australia etc.) 'cheat'?』

Native speakers of English simply use a given opportunity. One can't blame them for doing so. I'm glad there is an universal language. Unfortunately that means for many of us to learn English as a second language. C'est la vie!

This video is loosely about taking a chance someone provided to you.

Musashi Wrote:(I have an ABC friend from LA who's a certified teacher and she was refused as an English teacher and the job went to some German guy with a heavy German accent just because he had blond hair and blue eyes, now that's bad).

Really?! Crap, I'm not even white, this doesn't look good.

yukamina Wrote:

Musashi Wrote:(I have an ABC friend from LA who's a certified teacher and she was refused as an English teacher and the job went to some German guy with a heavy German accent just because he had blond hair and blue eyes, now that's bad).

Really?! Crap, I'm not even white, this doesn't look good.

Yea shit happens. You CBC?

tenricefieldsglue Wrote:

Musashi Wrote:『Do you feel people from English-speaking countries (USA, Canada, UK, Australia etc.) 'cheat'?』

Native speakers of English simply use a given opportunity. One can't blame them for doing so. I'm glad there is an universal language. Unfortunately that means for many of us to learn English as a second language. C'est la vie!

I wasn't blaming anyone as you could read, I was saying it seems easier for a native English speaker to use to get there by using the English-teacher-option be it a stepping stone or not. Ofcourse, if you're given this opportunity, why not take it, but how do non-native-English speakers look at this since they don't have 'I-take-the-easy-way-and-become-an-English-teacher' way. The question was, do they have to work harder to get there?

I wonder how much longer 英会話 schools can survive with competition from the Internet and the worsening Japanese economy. I am not sure why anyone would pay for a conversation school when video chatting with native speakers is available for free.

bodhisamaya Wrote:I wonder how much longer 英会話 schools can survive with competition from the Internet and the worsening Japanese economy. I am not sure why anyone would pay for a conversation school when video chatting with native speakers is available for free.

But it isn't. People on Skype aren't there to be your teachers, they will never be a decent substitute. If I pay for a teacher, I expect that teacher to be able to answer any of my questions whenever I have them, and I expect good educated answers (native people generally guess and make assumptions, oftentimes wrong).

Musashi Wrote:Yea shit happens. You CBC?

CBC?

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-t...art-1.html

Don't be a scrub. Play to win.

Tobberoth Wrote:

bodhisamaya Wrote:I wonder how much longer 英会話 schools can survive with competition from the Internet and the worsening Japanese economy. I am not sure why anyone would pay for a conversation school when video chatting with native speakers is available for free.

But it isn't. People on Skype aren't there to be your teachers, they will never be a decent substitute. If I pay for a teacher, I expect that teacher to be able to answer any of my questions whenever I have them, and I expect good educated answers (native people generally guess and make assumptions, oftentimes wrong).

Exactly.

yukamina Wrote:

Musashi Wrote:Yea shit happens. You CBC?

CBC?

chinese born canadian

mentat_kgs Wrote:http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-t...art-1.html

Don't be a scrub. Play to win.

What the??! Don't tell me that's forum-spam!!!
*I'm so gonna report it!

mentat_kgs Wrote:http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-t...art-1.html

Don't be a scrub. Play to win.

Me likes. GGPO anyone?

Musashi Wrote:chinese born canadian

canadian born chinese?

Musashi Wrote:

yukamina Wrote:

Musashi Wrote:Yea shit happens. You CBC?

CBC?

chinese born canadian

No, but I wish I was...it's easier to find media in Chinese(manga and stuff translated into Chinese)than in Japanese here.

mafried Wrote:

Musashi Wrote:chinese born canadian

canadian born chinese?

Oops, typo! hehe
chinese born canadian, lol!

I've probably got the same problem, as an Australian Born Vietnamese (ABV?). My english pronounciation is perfectly fine (if you call Australian English normal), but I have a feeling the more foreign looking ones will get preference for an ALT job. I haven't actually tested this theory yet though.

Nii87 Wrote:I've probably got the same problem, as an Australian Born Vietnamese (ABV?). My english pronounciation is perfectly fine (if you call Australian English normal), but I have a feeling the more foreign looking ones will get preference for an ALT job. I haven't actually tested this theory yet though.

Sadly this is true often. A western(caucasian) look gives the impression the person is genuinely from an English speaking country and provides a stereotype image people have of English speaking people.

Well, it depends.
If you're a non-native speaker but qualified then there's basically no reason why you shouldn't have a chance.
It's true that the economy is not the best at the moment and even most "native speakers" struggle.

It's true that it's fairly easy for English native speakers to land a job as an English teacher/tutor here in Japan without being qualified at all and that's probably ONE of the reasons why Japanese can't speak English that well.

Anyway, I'm German and I'm working as an English teacher here.
The only reason I got the job is because of my qualifications. (And no I'm not blonde and have no blue eyes. No accent either *g*)
The problem is not really to find a job, but to get the work visa if you're not a native speaker. The immigration office will give you a hard time. I had to struggle quite a lot, too.

chochajin Wrote:It's true that it's fairly easy for English native speakers to land a job as an English teacher/tutor here in Japan without being qualified at all and that's probably ONE of the reasons why Japanese can't speak English that well.

Ouch!

chochajin Wrote:The problem is not really to find a job, but to get the work visa if you're not a native speaker. The immigration office will give you a hard time. I had to struggle quite a lot, too.

Then how'd you get yours?

I first came here on a working holiday visa (only available for a few countries) which allowed me to work in Japan for 12 months without any problems. After that I had to switch to a normal work visa and that was almost impossible (as I wasn't a native speaker of English - they told me it would be no problem at all if I'd teach German instead).
I only managed with the help of a lot of "important" people. They send letters, recommendations and stuff, phoned them a few times and in the end I got it nevertheless. It was a close call, though.
Immigration offices are really strict here.

Musashi Wrote:『Do people from non-English speaking countries have to work harder to get there vs the ones that do?』

My town has 110 foreigners in it and about 80 of them are Chinese. There are approximately as many filipinos but many of them are not "official" as they were brought here by the mafia to work in snack bars or somehow found their way here to become live-in maids. I'm not sure that the Chinese have it any rougher than us to get here. Their population in Japan dwarfs every other foreign population.
But they all definitely have to work harder once they get here. That's more sad in my opinion.
Edit: There's about 20 native English speakers here. One is a translator, a couple are missionaries, and the rest are teachers.

chochajin Wrote:It's true that it's fairly easy for English native speakers to land a job as an English teacher/tutor here in Japan without being qualified at all and that's probably ONE of the reasons why Japanese can't speak English that well.

What makes them not qualified? Most English teachers in Japan just graduated from college and accepted a job overseas as kind of an adventure before starting their careers back home. Even so, every teacher I met in Japan prepared as best as he/she could for the job at hand. For a job that pays an average of 250,000yen, far less than one might make back in America or Canada for a teaching gig, they are getting a bargain for their buck.

It seems you only got to know really serious people then.
There are many youngsters out there, especially guys that just come here to do the "Japanese chick hunt". They run from job to job, have a "hit and run" mentality, don't care about their job or students at all and some of them don't even know how to spell "education".
Don't get me wrong, I just want to point out that there are also people like that out there.

Furthermore I think it's really difficult to teach your own language if you've never studied how to do it. I could definitely NOT teach German at all!
Then again it depends where you work. For most ALT and eikaiwa positions you really don't need any qualifications and as long as you are interested in the job somehow you'll get better while just doing it every day.
The "better" jobs require more qualifications anyway and there you'll need them for sure.

Musashi Wrote:『Do people from non-English speaking countries have to work harder to get there vs the ones that do?』

Hmmm, I'm a native English speaker, but I really don't think strong English skills were terribly important the way I got here. I am a graduate student in sciences and despite the "requirement" that all foreign graduate students need to know English, the admissions department appears quite lax on the subject. Also, the desire to study and learn Japanese is surprisingly minimal from my observations, which means they focus on improving their research and never leave the lab. I often hear, "I came here to work not to learn culture." So sad ...